ARCHIVE - You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar

[Nathon Detroit]

There is this overriding theme on this forum about how Christians should deal with other Christians and/or non-Christians.

It wasn’t long ago I was in a family discussion. My brother in-law and I were witnessing to another member of the family. The discussion was rather uncomfortable at times, as discussions like that often are. The next day yet another member of my family called me on the phone to inform me that he didn’t approve of the conversation that had transpired the night before, he told me… "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar ya know". He was saying in effect what many on this very forum assert in that Christians should be less judgmental, less confrontational and more tolerant of those who reject Christ.

The saying... "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar ". Is most likely true. I think you actually can catch more flies by pouring out a container of honey onto your back patio than you can by leaving a jar of vinegar or your back porch.

So maybe my friendly relative was right! Maybe I should witness to people using his mantra … "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar ".

Except……

Flies are pests that you want to die.

When you catch flies with honey you don’t wash them off and set them free, you leave them in the honey like you do with fly paper in an effort to kill them so they will no longer land on your kitchen table or try to eat your peanut butter and jelly sandwich or bother you when you are napping.

I don’t want my friends and family to die like flies in honey, I want them to live! Live forever!

Why would I want my friends and family to get STUCK in the honey and then die in their sin?

Did Jesus ever say anything like…… "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar".?

Jesus said…

"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men."

Salt is nothing like sugar (or honey for that matter.) Salt, is much more like vinegar! Jesus didn’t say "You are the sugar (or the honey) of the earth…." He made a point to say "salt"!

Jesus called some people "Vipers" , He called others "swine" He even made His own whip and chased people with it! Are those things more like honey, or more like vinegar?

Some might bring up (in opposition to what I am saying) when Jesus said

"But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you"

So how can we be salt yet love our enemies? Well maybe the answer lies in how we perceive "love". Maybe its not loving to allow your family and friends to die in honey. The Bible says…

‘You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him."

Wow, did you get that? It would be hateful to NOT rebuke your sinning neighbor!

Jesus said "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him." It doesn’t get anymore clear than that does it? Can you really rebuke someone with honey? Jesus did some REAL salty rebuking in Matthew 11:20 - no honey there!

The Bible says…

Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear. - 1 Timothy 5:20

Is it really possible to rebuke in a nice way (with honey so to speak) so that others may fear???

Of course there is always room for gentle consultation when there is ample time or when the sin in question is not of a serious nature. But for the most part I would assert that honey, more often than not, keeps people "stuck" in their sin and is hateful. Harsh rebuke is salty and therefore much more Christ-like and loving.

You can indeed kill more pests with honey but if you don’t want to allow your friends and family to get stuck and die you might want to try salt!

 

[kiwimac]

Knight,

Do you hear the far off sounds of bells, pealing out "DUNG, DUNG, DUNG"

Kiwimac

 

[Kate]

INMHO, I think we should witness with our deeds first. I remember when I was just saved and was a zealous babe in Christ, I couldn't shut up. Needless to say, no one wanted to listen, to them I "cought religion". It took years of trying and struggling to live according to what I preached, I now have a theory that actions are louder than words, and we should witness with the way we live, I think it was Ghundi who said "My life is my mission". We can preach to people who come to listen to the preaching vilunteraly, but not do the "intervention" style technique, especially in the family gatherings. Let your family see God in you, you can't fail. ONLY MY OPINION.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Kate thank you for responding!

Kate you say...

INMHO, I think we should witness with our deeds first. I remember when I was just saved and was a zealous babe in Christ, I couldn't shut up. Needless to say, no one wanted to listen, to them I "cought religion".

What biblical case can you make for your statement? I am just curious because I can't seem to remember God telling us to worry if people would listen or not.

You continue...

I think it was Ghundi who said "My life is my mission". We can preach to people who come to listen to the preaching vilunteraly, but not do the "intervention" style technique, especially in the family gatherings. Let your family see God in you, you can't fail. ONLY MY OPINION.

Did you mean Ghandi? He wasn't a Christian.

I do agree we should be a light and be a living testimony but I also think we need to be more salty!

 

[Yxboom]

Im sure quoting Ghandi isn't going to get much points in this Forum. Besides why do those who claim not to judge, judge more harshly than those who claim we should. Reminds me of King David after killing Uriah and sleeping with Bathsheba screamed for "Godly JUSTICE and VENGENCE" on the man who unrightly took anothers lamb.
I wonder how many people judge and complain if those men who went into the WTC buildings insisting that they should evacuate may have been harsh and abrupt about getting out. Some may have been told things they didn't like and had to actually stop what they were doing.
How much greater is Hell than a burning building yet if you are not PC and even hurt someone's ego you are the enemy and not the watchman how should be recieved. Seems incompetent. Just imagine the Fireman running out of the WTC building yet saying nothing expecting everyone to follow, or a night watchmen that rather than ring the Town Bell jumped off his post and evacuated expecting everyone to do the same. What good is an alarm that doesn't ring? Or for this Threads sake, a picture of a jar of honey is the closest thing to honey as most flies get when it comes to personal evangelism.

 

[Jaltus]

Ephesians 4:11

11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,

I keep looking for "couch-potatoes and internet junkies" but it is not even in any manuscripts.

Joking aside, I do believe that we are to witness, but I do think that not all are called to be evangelists. Some are called to witness by living their lives but not being afraid to share when the time is right.

However, all are called to be ready to answer the call, to make disciples.

 

[Yxboom]

Jaltus.....ditto!

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Jaltus you write...

Joking aside, I do believe that we are to witness, but I do think that not all are called to be evangelists. Some are called to witness by living their lives but not being afraid to share when the time is right.

I agree for the most part, but I would say the time is almost always right, wouldn't you?

Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. - 2Timothy 4:2

 

[Projill]

Kate thank you for responding!

Kate you say...Did you mean Ghandi? He wasn't a Christian.

I do agree we should be a light and be a living testimony but I also think we need to be more salty!

Okay, to the best of my knowledge and memory, it's spelled "Gandhi" not "Ghandi". I'm open to being wrong, but that's the only way, apart from this board, that I've ever seen it spelled.

 

[Amazing_Grace]

I agree with Jaltus. I think that everyone is called to do different things. Some have an exceptional gift to witness and evangelise, some have the gift of teaching, some simply prove Christ's Love through the lives that they lead. It doesn't mean you are less Christian because you don't do all of these things.

I am able to witness to those who have questions, but don't believe I should openly evangelise just yet. I do not have the knowledge to do so. I would probably do more harm than good. But I can serve God by living a good example. One day He may call me to witness more often, and I will answer that call.

Now, if one were called to witness, etc., and ignored that call, then I think there would be a problem.

 

[Yxboom]

Projill majoring in the minors again are we???

 

[Goose]

I don't know much about what Jesus did before his ministry, but I do know a lot of what he said.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Okay, to the best of my knowledge and memory, it's spelled "Gandhi" not "Ghandi". I'm open to being wrong, but that's the only way, apart from this board, that I've ever seen it spelled.

You very well could be right!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Amazing Grace writes…

I agree with Jaltus. I think that everyone is called to do different things. Some have an exceptional gift to witness and evangelise, some have the gift of teaching, some simply prove Christ's Love through the lives that they lead. It doesn't mean you are less Christian because you don't do all of these things.

I agree 100% But that isn’t really my point.

You continue…

One day He may call me to witness more often, and I will answer that call.

OK, fine… but when, and if that day comes will you use the mantra "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". Or will you be willing to be a little salty!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I don't know much about what Jesus did before his ministry, but I do know a lot of what he said.

And your point was????

 

[Goose]

Knight:

And your point was????

I'm not good a debating and I don't know much about where Jesus worked, what he dressed like or what he did when he was a youngster, but I do know about the effects of his teaching and how he talked and interacted with people. His teaching/rebuking/offensing/loving was a lot how he walked. He fulfilled the law and didn't abolish it.

I find that people debate (not necessarily THIS debate) so much over this verse and that verse and get rapped up in the law they forget where the law came from and sometimes even what they were arguing about! Blind leading the blind I tell you. The essence, central focus of ALL the law (God), and only through that focus can you see where the point of the law comes in. Like a ray in geometry. You have a central point and from that, you can draw another point and create a ray(a line). Like solar rays from the sun. Let's say the Ten Commandments are this point outside of the focus point, as an example.

God - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ten Commandments

*-------------------------------------*--->


Even though they are not at the same point, they are still Godly, just one is in heaven and the other is on "earth", manifested. Like Jesus I guess. But upon that ray/line, closer to God, you could draw another perfectly valid Godly 'point', descended from heaven let's say, as another law smack dab between those two. Let's say this is the two commandments that Jesus gave us, above the Ten Commandments. That is:
Mark 12:30-31 - "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these."

God(A)- Two Commandments(B) - Ten Commandments(C)

*----------------*--------------------*--->


There. We can now validate the essence/focus (A) by the two points B and C. not that God needs to be "approved" by us, but WE need to check ourselves. With these rays, you can deduce just about anything, like the your validity on a point or a point of what Jesus and/or his followers are saying in the Bible. There's plenty of commands and laws to practically make a whole circle around our focus, God. Like the Bible itself. Just look at the authors of the books, over how many years, from how many lands, languages, walks of life? ALL HAVING THE SAME FOCUS! How can christians disagree so much? I would think that our differences should be for diversity sake, not on doctrine. I could go on forever I guess about this. What do YOU ALL think of this? I'm a new believer with somewhat abstract ideas I think. I want to base myself as a stone though, more concrete. TELL ME if you see anything wrong with the way I might be thinking or something...I want to be rebuked if I need it. I want the truth. Thanks for taking the time to read this far. Peace.

 

[denversurvivor]

I keep looking for "couch-potatoes and internet junkies" but it is not even in any manuscripts.

Don't worry that version is coming out soon.

It is thine old king james version that doth hold us backeth.

 

[Yxboom]

I do agree we should be a light and be a living testimony but I also think we need to be more salty!

I know a few wounds that could use some.

 

[Kate]

Jaltus, you are right. Everyone is called according to His time and purpose.

Knight, just because I crinch when a Christian opens his mouth and starts saying you know you are a sinner and you are going to hell at a family party, doesn't mean God didn't call you to do so. I stand corrected... If I did it at my family gathering, that would be my last invite... But it doesn't mean your family is the same. I think I projected. My apology.

I know my misison and I will assume that others know theirs. I am glad I learned that. Thank you all.

 

[Jaltus]

I Corinthians 1:17-24

17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel-- not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

It is the cross which is offensive, not the one on it. It is the message that should offend, not the one conveying it.