ARCHIVE: The Apostle Pauls affirms that a Christian can sin.

[Philetus]

Consider this. Jesus redeemed us from judgement under the law. Paul tells us that apart from the law there is no sin. So, when we do something that would be considered a sin under the law, it is not a sin for a saved believer because they are not judged under that law.

I think that gets at what Sozo is saying. And I understand it.

The question is are we going to place the emphasis on 'our not sinning' or on Christ continuing to cleanse us from sin.


Explain that to the unsaved in light of Sozo’s statement with which I agree:

SOZO: But, when we show them that we are all on the same level, and that everyone’s "good works" is as "filthy rags" and that we are totally dependent on Christ, then we give the lost, hope, because anyone can do that!

 

[CabinetMaker]

Dueling Bible Verses (Played to the tune of Dueling Banjos)

Romans 5:13-14

for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

Romans 7:8
But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.

Romans 7:9
Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.

Christ died to forgive ALL sins. Was He succesful or not?

 

[Philetus]

That is your message huh?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 5:24
And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Maybe you better rethink that one feller.

You need to pipe down and follow the discussion.

 

[Sozo]

Consider this. Jesus redeemed us from judgement under the law. Paul tells us that apart from the law there is no sin. So, when we do something that would be considered a sin under the law, it is not a sin for a saved believer because they are not judged under that law.

I agree 100% :thumb:

That was "perfect" :chuckle:

 

[Benjamin]

Romans 7:8
But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.

There is no condraction in Scripture, so we obviously know that Romans 5:13-14 is not wrong but true. It clearly states that sin still reigned before the law.

And we realize what Paul says here, talking about his personal experience, is that the law literally sets a standard so high it makes our sinfulness look "exceedingly sinful" (Romans 7:13).

Christ died to forgive ALL sins. Was He succesful or not?

Are you preaching Universalism? That is a heresy. If not then you realize that we must accept this forgiveness for it to be applicable-

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures​

 

[Benjamin]

You need to pipe down and follow the discussion.

Good counter Einstein.

 

[Sozo]

Moderators... could you please remove the garbage (Benjamin) from this thread?

 

[godrulz]

Moderators... could you please remove the garbage (Benjamin) from this thread?

His points merit consideration. His tone is no better or worse than yours usually is.

I trust you appreciate me staying out of this interesting thread. Have fun.

 

[Sozo]

His points merit consideration.

That's because you and he are both lost, dead to God, sinners, whose faith is in the flesh to maintain right standing with God.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Are you preaching Universalism? That is a heresy. If not then you realize that we must accept this forgiveness for it to be applicable-

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures​

I am not a Universalist. Check out the BR chat to confirm that one. But I do not agree with you that you must accept Jesus to be forgiven from sin. I agree with Bob George on this issue.

Christ died on the cross to forgive all of our sins. When He died the curtain in the Tabernacle was torn in half indicating that the wall of sin that had separated men from God up to that point was forever gone. All of our sins are forgiven and a new covenant was opened. Under the new covenant, it is not our sins that condemn us to the lake of fire, it is a rejection of God that condemns one to the lake of fire.

Jesus was successful on the cross and washed everyman clean of their sins. Jesus was also successful in His resurrection. Each of us who believe are raised with Him to eternal life.

 

[Benjamin]

I am not a Universalist. Check out the BR chat to confirm that one. But I do not agree with you that you must accept Jesus to be forgiven from sin. I agree with Bob George on this issue.

Christ died on the cross to forgive all of our sins. When He died the curtain in the Tabernacle was torn in half indicating that the wall of sin that had separated men from God up to that point was forever gone. All of our sins are forgiven and a new covenant was opened. Under the new covenant, it is not our sins that condemn us to the lake of fire, it is a rejection of God that condemns one to the lake of fire.

Jesus was successful on the cross and washed everyman clean of their sins. Jesus was also successful in His resurrection. Each of us who believe are raised with Him to eternal life.

Does this lead you to an OSAS position?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Does this lead you to an OSAS position?

I am not sure. I know Bob George holds that position but I have seen some verses lately that lead me to think it is possible for one to fall away and when that happens, they cannot be restored. I am looking into it more with Bible study and prayer. Things have been crazy at year end so I have only just begun to look into once saved, always saved.

 

[Benjamin]

I am not sure. I know Bob George holds that position but I have seen some verses lately that lead me to think it is possible for one to fall away and when that happens, they cannot be restored. I am looking into it more with Bible study and prayer. Things have been crazy at year end so I have only just begun to look into once saved, always saved.

Cool.

Remember the story of the prodigal son (Luke 15, especially note verses 12 and 32...note James 5:19-20...see 1 Corinthians 15:1--4...Matthew 24:13....Revelation 3:10...read all of Matthew 25....see Matthew 24:45-51 (notice the terms 'servant' and Master')....just to throw a few at you). I would, from Scripture, say that OSAS is heretical and dangerous.

I would also point out that you can fall away to an unforgivable state (Hebrews 6:4-6; 12:14-17) or you can backslide where you have fallen away but not to an unreachable state (Luke 15:12,31/ James 5:19-20).

God bless your studies.

And to talk about your previous idea, I would point out that "everything not done in faith, is sin" (Romans 14:23). Certianly one cannot reject God in faith!

Much love in Christ,

Benjamin

 

[elected4ever]

I love the way you stray away from a dispute and resort to ad hominem slurs when the Scripture is so clearly not in your favor.

You don't hold up very well with those who are Scripturally aware, but you attack peoples character to protect your pride- kinda like an 11 year old really.

Who is James talking too?James 1:1 ¶James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James was not talking to the church persay but was talking to dispersed Israel.

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The brethren here is all all dispersed Israel not the church. What was erring from the truth? That Jesus is the Messiah of Israel. If any of you (Israel) err from the truth and one convert him. (You cannot convert that which is already in the truth. The one being converted must be apart from the truth otherwise a conversion would not be necessary.) Let him know, (The one doing the witnessing) that he which converteth the sinner (a non believer) from the error of his way (the unbelief that Jesus is the Messiah) shall save a soul from hell and hide a multitude of sins.
All parentheses mine
The scripture is in my favor and not yours. You are the liar and distorter of the truth.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Sozo.... would you rather have a "one on one" with me?

 

[Sozo]

Sozo.... would you rather have a "one on one" with me?

Having to weed through other posts is a pain. Can we use this thread as a discussion forum for the "one on one"?

What did you think of CabinetMaker's post?

Originally Posted by CabinetMaker

Consider this. Jesus redeemed us from judgement under the law. Paul tells us that apart from the law there is no sin. So, when we do something that would be considered a sin under the law, it is not a sin for a saved believer because they are not judged under that law.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

What did you think of CabinetMaker's post?

I think it's excellent! I agree with it 100%!

I also agree with the other ways the word sin is used. Like the way Paul uses it in his epistles.

I now know you like CabinetMakers use of the word sin what do you think of Paul's use of the word sin?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Sozo, I created a One on One thread for us and I copied all the pertinent posts from this thread and included them in the new thread. :up:

 

[Sozo]

Sozo, I created a One on One thread for us and I copied all the pertinent posts from this thread and included them in the new thread. :up:

Thanks!

Please be patient with me today, I have alot on my plate with my daughter's birthday, and I have to write a commentary on Romans 8 by Tuesday, and I'm only through verse one

I will answer all your questions there, and try to get to everyone else's questions here.

(e4e and lighthouse can help me out here, when they are available. Thanks, guys! :thumb: )

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Thanks!

Please be patient with me today, I have alot on my plate with my daughter's birthday, and I have to write a commentary on Romans 8 by Tuesday, and I'm only through verse one

I will answer all your questions there, and try to get to everyone else's questions here.

(e4e and lighthouse can help me out here, when they are available. Thanks, guys! :thumb: )

Sounds good. :up: