ARCHIVE: Hello. (funniest "hello" thread ever!)

[Fnord5]

Hi there, I am quite new here, but I hope that I can quickly fit in. I am pro choice, pro gun, pro homosexual marriage rights, anti affirmative action, pro war in Iraq, I think fundamentalist Christians are on par with Islamic extremists.

If you are thinking, wow this N00b is just here to troll and get a rise out of us, go on thinking that, but I will debate and prove any claim I make.

I abhor close minded people, but if you are willing to listen, you might learn something.

Fnord5

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I abhor close minded people

Do you abhor yourself? :think:

 

[Fnord5]

Do you abhor yourself? :think:

I am not close minded, I am open to all trains of thought.

 

[SUTG]

Why are you pro homosexual marriage rights?

Are you any good at logic?

 

[Fnord5]

Why are you pro homosexual marriage rights?

Are you any good at logic?

Quite, I was majoring in it for a while.

Pro homosexual marriage rights for several reasons.
First, the US declaration if independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."

That means that EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless. (Felons and non citizens excluded)

Second, I believe that the government should be kept as small as possible. I do not think that they have any place telling anyone who they can, or cannot marry.

Third, economic and social benefit for everyone. Lowered tax burden, reduced rates on insurance, the ability to act as a spouse in medical situations, and a reduces stigma attached to homosexuals.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Quite, I was majoring in it for a while.

Pro homosexual marriage rights for several reasons.
First, the US declaration if independence:
That means that EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless. (Felons and non citizens excluded)

Second, I believe that the government should be kept as small as possible. I do not think that they have any place telling anyone who they can, or cannot marry.

Third, economic and social benefit for everyone. Lowered tax burden, reduced rates on insurance, the ability to act as a spouse in medical situations, and a reduces stigma attached to homosexuals.

Based on your logic for supporting gay marriage, I am curious....

Which of the following do you also support...... (and if not..... why?)

- Polygamy
- Incestual marriage
- Bestiality based marriage
- Pedophilia based marriages

 

[SUTG]

My post contained a hidden logic test. You were in the 10% who pass the test. Congratulations.

Also, how does one "major in logic"? Were you studing in a philosophy department or a mathematics department?

 

[Lucky]

:sigh: Another pervert.

 

[Jackson]

My post contained a hidden logic test. You were in the 10% who pass the test. Congratulations.

Rrriiiightt!

 

[Fnord5]

Based on your logic for supporting gay marriage, I am curious....

Which of the following do you also support...... (and if not..... why?)

- Polygamy
- Incestuous marriagefixed it for you
- Bestiality based marriage
- Pedophilia based marriages

I support none of those.

Polygamy for the reason that a marriage is a union between two people, not multiple. There would be no benefit for society as a whole, and in fact the bureaucracy of changing all forms, legal precedents, old convictions would need to be turned over(ex post facto only works one way)would cost an astronomical amount. It would be a mess. Nothing would really change if same sex marriage were to be made official.

Incestuous for the reason of genetic defects are greatly increased, and for humanity to survive, there needs to be gene diversity. Government forms would also need to be changed to include any possible combination of relation relation union. (Don't even try and get into the "homosexuals can't reproduce" debate, yet, that will come)

Bestiality, that is really a no brainer, marriage is between two people. Also, there cannot possibly a mutual love or respect of the type marriage commands, as one is an animal, that is not self aware, or able to communicate on the same level, and the other is sentient.

Pedophilia, again, a no brainer. Children are incapable of making rational decisions until after puberty is complete. Legally, no person under the age of 18(with rare exception) are able to enter into any binding contract. This includes marriage. The exceptions to this are the Delayed Entry program for the military, where a 17 year old can sign a contract that is binding to enter the military upon turning 18 and finishing school. Attending school is another contract that is binding to a minor, although that is not one signed by them, but legislated.

:sigh: Another pervert.

Hardly, although you just brilliantly provided an example of a close mind.

 

[GuySmiley]

Hardly, although you just brilliantly provided an example of a close mind.

Shouldn't you be open minded to the fact that you just might be a pervert? That's kind of closed minded of you to make such a definite statement.

 

[Fnord5]

Shouldn't you be open minded to the fact that you just might be a pervert? That's kind of closed minded of you to make such a definite statement.

LOL, I have, in the past examined that part of myself, and have come to the conclusion that I am not.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I support none of those.

Polygamy for the reason that a marriage is a union between two people, not multiple. There would be no benefit for society as a whole, and in fact the bureaucracy of changing all forms, legal precedents, old convictions would need to be turned over(ex post facto only works one way)would cost an astronomical amount. It would be a mess. Nothing would really change if same sex marriage were to be made official.

Incestuous for the reason of genetic defects are greatly increased, and for humanity to survive, there needs to be gene diversity. Government forms would also need to be changed to include any possible combination of relation relation union. (Don't even try and get into the "homosexuals can't reproduce" debate, yet, that will come)

Bestiality, that is really a no brainer, marriage is between two people. Also, there cannot possibly a mutual love or respect of the type marriage commands, as one is an animal, that is not self aware, or able to communicate on the same level, and the other is sentient.

Pedophilia, again, a no brainer. Children are incapable of making rational decisions until after puberty is complete. Legally, no person under the age of 18(with rare exception) are able to enter into any binding contract. This includes marriage. The exceptions to this are the Delayed Entry program for the military, where a 17 year old can sign a contract that is binding to enter the military upon turning 18 and finishing school. Attending school is another contract that is binding to a minor, although that is not one signed by them, but legislated.

OK, so based on your response lets revise your earlier reasons for support of gay marriage....

First, the US declaration if independence:
That means that EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless. (Felons and non citizens excluded)

Second, I believe that the government should be kept as small as possible. I do not think that they have any place telling anyone who they can, or cannot marry.

Third, economic and social benefit for everyone. Lowered tax burden, reduced rates on insurance, the ability to act as a spouse in medical situations, and a reduces stigma attached to homosexuals.

 

[Fnord5]

OK, so based on your response lets revise your earlier reasons for support of gay marriage....

Nice try.
First, the US declaration if independence:
That means that EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless. (Felons and non citizens excluded)OK, but same rights means marriage, a union between TWO people, the definition is two, not 9, 3 or 12.

Second, I believe that the government should be kept as small as possible. I do not think that they have any place telling anyone who they can, or cannot marry.
Operative word is WHO, animals are not a who, they are a thing. And, children are incapable of making that kind of decision. The incest thing is a matter of national health, an arena where the government does belong.

Third, economic and social benefit for everyone. Lowered tax burden, reduced rates on insurance, the ability to act as a spouse in medical situations, and a reduces stigma attached to homosexuals. Not too sure what your point was in the parts you struck out, please elaborate.

 

[JoyfulRook]

I abhor close minded people, but if you are willing to listen, you might learn something.

Fnord5

That seems very close minded, arrogant, and judgemental.

Anyway, Welcome to TOL, :Commie:! :wave2:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Nice try.
First, the US declaration if independence:
That means that EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless. (Felons and non citizens excluded)OK, but same rights means marriage, a union between TWO people, the definition is two, not 9, 3 or 12.

Well, that clearly isn't EVERYONE is it? (not to mention that only Polygamy and Bestiality are a unions between more - or less - than two people, all of the other potential marriage groups I listed are unions between two people i.e., incest, pedophile marriage)

Didn't you say you studied logic in college? :think:

Second, I believe that the government should be kept as small as possible. I do not think that they have any place telling anyone who they can, or cannot marry.
Operative word is WHO, animals are not a who, they are a thing. And, children are incapable of making that kind of decision. The incest thing is a matter of national health, an arena where the government does belong.

So, you DO in fact believe that government can tell people who they CAN and CANNOT marry eh?

Didn't you say you studied logic in college? :think:

Third, economic and social benefit for everyone. Lowered tax burden, reduced rates on insurance, the ability to act as a spouse in medical situations, and a reduces stigma attached to homosexuals. Not too sure what your point was in the parts you struck out, please elaborate.

If these things apply towards homosexuals then there is no reason (in and of themselves) that they shouldn't apply to the other potential marriage groups I asked you about.

Didn't you say you studied logic in college? :think:

So... you have been on TOL a total of what? A couple hours? And I think its rather obvious you weren't prepared for this place.

Better luck in the future.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

This might be the funniest "Hello" thread ever! :rotfl:

 

[Fnord5]

Ehh, not that I am trying to avoid owning up to faults in my argument, justification for what I believe in one case, can be contradictory to justification in another.
You asked for reasons why I supported it, and I gave them. You then asked me if because I supported same sex marriage, I supported the other marriages. They may overlap on some points, but may be contradictory in others. Such is the nature of all belief.

 

[kmoney]

Hi there, I am quite new here, but I hope that I can quickly fit in. I am pro choice, pro gun, pro homosexual marriage rights, anti affirmative action, pro war in Iraq, I think fundamentalist Christians are on par with Islamic extremists.

I'm surprised to see that set of beliefs together. Normally pro choice & pro homosexual marriage don't go with pro Iraq war, anti-affirmative action, and pro gun. Also, in a later post you say you want government to be as small as possible. What is the main reason you describe yourself as a "left winger"?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Ehh, not that I am trying to avoid owning up to faults in my argument, justification for what I believe in one case, can be contradictory to justification in another.
You asked for reasons why I supported it, and I gave them. You then asked me if because I supported same sex marriage, I supported the other marriages. They may overlap on some points, but may be contradictory in others. Such is the nature of all belief.

So then... lets take one statement at a time and analyze it.

In defense of gay marriage you stated.....

First, the US declaration if independence:
That means that EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless. (Felons and non citizens excluded)

We now know beyond any doubt that you DO NOT BELIEVE that EVERYONE has (or should have) the same rights.

Will you admit that you need to (at very least) revise and or strike from the record your above defense of gay marriage?