ARCHIVE: Free From Sin - 1 John

elected4ever

New member
Spitfire said:
Hui! Spiritual sins, sins of the diabolical self, are the worst! Unless you believe only the part of your soul that had no part in whatever pride, jealousy, malice or deceit you are guilty of will be admitted to Heaven (and I don't see how that would be possible,) none of this is tenable.
Romans 7:18 *For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 *For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 *Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 *I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 *For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 *But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 *O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 *I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Spitfire, you don't need some holy joe to offer you penance when you are not guilty before God.
 

Spitfire

New member
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:21-23)

For if a man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he shall be compared to a man beholding his own countenance in a glass. For he beheld himself, and went his way, and presently forgot what manner of man he was. But he that hath looked into the perfect law of liberty, and hath continued therein, not becoming a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; this man shall be blessed in his deed. And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his own heart, this man's religion is vain. (James 1:23-26)

It is apparently quite possible to be found guilty despite faith in Christ - for one's imagined faith in Christ to actually be in vain.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
elected4ever said:
Fact 5 When you were saved you were given life from the dead.

Fact 6 When you were saved you were given life from the dead.
I agree with fact #5 but I am not sure about fact #6. :noid:

;)
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
My peanut gallery comments so you can keep saying I at least tried:

Fact #1 you were a sinner or you could not have been saved Only sinners need a savior

Rulz: Paul did say that this is what some of you were (past tense). He was referring to an ongoing lifestyle and giving over to sin. We were sinners separated from God, not saints set apart for God. Sinners need a Savior. Believers have a Savior and are in Him.

Fact #2 If you trusted Jesus as your savior, god placed his seed in you and you cannot sin.

Rulz: This does not compute. We enter a relationship with Christ at conversion, we are justified and treated as if we never sinned, and we start a process of sanctification until we are gloried. We grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ and become more like Him in character. It is more than a positional standing (we are sanctified or set apart in another sense when we are justified). It is a non sequitur to say that we CANNOT sin. We will not sin because we submit to His Lordship and have newness of life. If we sin, it is not a godless state where we persist in sin. It is an isolated lapse that the Spirit convicts us on and leads us to renewed obedience (obedience and holiness/righteousness are used in the same breath in various NT verses). If this point is a wrong assumption, your chain becomes weaker and relies on circular reasoning (assuming what you are trying to prove).

Fact # 3 All sin has been condemned in the flesh.

Rulz: What do you mean by flesh? Paul uses it as a metaphor for sin. Augustine used it as a sin principle that is inherited from Adam. Sin is not a genetic substance. It is a wrong moral choice or lawlessness/selfishness. We inherit physical (death), not moral depravity (volitional). God's holiness and holy Law does condemn sin. We are exhorted to walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh, like we used to. This does not preclude the isolated possibility of yielding to bodily desires above loving obedience to the Spirit (lust, gluttony...some Christians pig out, etc...see Romans 6 and two options that are Christian wills can yield to).

Fact #4 When you were first judged a sinner you died. Your flesh was eternally separated from God.

Rulz: Our spirit and will is still in the body. We can keep our genitals pure and set apart, or we can use them for immorality. We do not lose our genitals at conversion. Flesh is a metaphor for sin (conveys spiritual truth), not a literal substance of thing that is lost in space. We die daily to sin. We die to our old life. We die to self. We identify with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. It still does not preclude the possibility of yielding to the flesh (sin) with the will that was not destroyed at conversion. We are still responsible if we do what we used to do or do what unbelievers do (e.g. fornicate).

Fact 5 When you were saved you were given life from the dead.

Rulz: We enter into newness of life at conversion and have His life in us. This does not make us sock puppets. We are still exhorted in the NT to continue to put off the old man and put on the new man. It is not an automaton/robotic/causative/coerced issue. We are to walk in newness of life, moment by moment. If we lapse into sin, it does not negate our relationship with Christ.

Fact 6 When you were saved you were given life from the dead.

Fact # 7 if you are saved you are not of the flesh.

Rulz: Hence the exhortations to walk in the Spirit and in the light and to not walk in the flesh (still possible, but exception vs norm). Some believers were yielding to the flesh, so needed correction and a reminder that we are free from this bondage and do not need to nor should do what we used to do. Being saved is not the same thing as future glorification. Some still struggle with old desires as they mature. Some baby Christians fall and fail. God changes their diaper. He does not throw the baby out or say the messed diaper is not really there. We are alive in Christ and should walk in this. It still does not preclude the possibility of lusting over porn. This is why we should join Job and make a covenant with our eyes to not look lustfully at a woman. We yield to the Spirit and His holiness rather than giving in to fleshly gratification outside God's parameters.

Fact # 8 If you are saved you are of the spirit and not of the flesh.

Rulz: This is the normative experience. We still have to walk in newness of life and say 'no' to our former desires in the power of the Spirit and conformity to His Word. Why do some believers struggle? It is possible. Others do not. If it was only all of God, we would all be equally mature instantly and no one would fail or fall (the fact that many do contradicts your conclusions...you have no ministry experience if you think the people of God are 'perfect'...saying we are perfect in Christ is simplistic if we are living like the Corinthian 'saints').

Fact # 9 It is not you that sins but the sin that is condemned in the flesh sins. but that is not you if you are born of God.

Rulz: Huh? If I take my penis and put it in someone's vagina that is not my wife, I AM SINNING. I am responsible. I will be convicted. I better repent and renew obedience. It is ME who sins. This is why I am responsible. If I murder someone in rage, I will not get off by saying that it was not me who did it, but my flesh?! "Born again" is also one of several metaphors (comparison) for salvation. It does not mean we are sock puppets. The flesh is not a second will in the same body. We have ONE will, not two wills. We are ONE person, not two people fighting inside us. We are spirit, soul (will, intellect, emotions), and body. Our spirit lives in and through our body. We can yield our body to righteousness or to unrighteousness (Romans 6). Your assumptions are indefensible nonsense on this point. There is not a personal 'flesh' back of my will making me sin that I will not be responsible for. I cannot blame it on Adam. I cannot blame it on Satan. I cannot blame it on a nebulous principle you call 'flesh' that does things against our wills. God condemns our misuse of the will. Hence, the commands in the NT that require us to obey rather than disobey. He gives us the power to obey, but it is still us obeying (with the unfortunate possibility that some will disobey at times).

Fact # 10 If you have not received the spirit of God you do not belong to Him.

Rulz: Jn. 1:12 We receive Christ through repentant faith. We are justified (treated as if we never sinned), set apart initially and then progressively (sanctified), until we are glorified. The Christian life lived between conversion and resurrection may or may not have isolated lapses of disobedience or yielding to bodily desires (body/flesh= same Greek word). This does not mean that we do not have the Spirit. Unbelievers do not have the Spirit and persist in habitual, godless sin. Believers have the Spirit and eternal life. It is normative to not sin, but IF we sin (not unbelief), we have an advocate who brings us back on track and forgives and cleanses even as we return to walking in the Spirit and light in that choice again. One sin does not mean we do not have the Spirit or that we lose our salvation. Faith vs unbelief determines sin. Works, Christian living, growth, sin vs holiness, etc. are subsequent to salvation and a different issue than the contrast between believer and unbeliever (both can commit the sin of adultery... you cannot deny this..so your 'sinless perfection' views and sentences are not profound...some of your assumptions are flawed leading to flawed conclusions).
 

elected4ever

New member
godrulz said:
My peanut gallery comments so you can keep saying I at least tried:

Fact #1 you were a sinner or you could not have been saved Only sinners need a savior

Rulz: Paul did say that this is what some of you were (past tense). He was referring to an ongoing lifestyle and giving over to sin. We were sinners separated from God, not saints set apart for God. Sinners need a Savior. Believers have a Savior and are in Him.

Fact #2 If you trusted Jesus as your savior, god placed his seed in you and you cannot sin.

Rulz: This does not compute. We enter a relationship with Christ at conversion, we are justified and treated as if we never sinned, and we start a process of sanctification until we are gloried. We grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ and become more like Him in character. It is more than a positional standing (we are sanctified or set apart in another sense when we are justified). It is a non sequitur to say that we CANNOT sin. We will not sin because we submit to His Lordship and have newness of life. If we sin, it is not a godless state where we persist in sin. It is an isolated lapse that the Spirit convicts us on and leads us to renewed obedience (obedience and holiness/righteousness are used in the same breath in various NT verses). If this point is a wrong assumption, your chain becomes weaker and relies on circular reasoning (assuming what you are trying to prove).

Fact # 3 All sin has been condemned in the flesh.

Rulz: What do you mean by flesh? Paul uses it as a metaphor for sin. Augustine used it as a sin principle that is inherited from Adam. Sin is not a genetic substance. It is a wrong moral choice or lawlessness/selfishness. We inherit physical (death), not moral depravity (volitional). God's holiness and holy Law does condemn sin. We are exhorted to walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh, like we used to. This does not preclude the isolated possibility of yielding to bodily desires above loving obedience to the Spirit (lust, gluttony...some Christians pig out, etc...see Romans 6 and two options that are Christian wills can yield to).

Fact #4 When you were first judged a sinner you died. Your flesh was eternally separated from God.

Rulz: Our spirit and will is still in the body. We can keep our genitals pure and set apart, or we can use them for immorality. We do not lose our genitals at conversion. Flesh is a metaphor for sin (conveys spiritual truth), not a literal substance of thing that is lost in space. We die daily to sin. We die to our old life. We die to self. We identify with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. It still does not preclude the possibility of yielding to the flesh (sin) with the will that was not destroyed at conversion. We are still responsible if we do what we used to do or do what unbelievers do (e.g. fornicate).

Fact 5 When you were saved you were given life from the dead.

Rulz: We enter into newness of life at conversion and have His life in us. This does not make us sock puppets. We are still exhorted in the NT to continue to put off the old man and put on the new man. It is not an automaton/robotic/causative/coerced issue. We are to walk in newness of life, moment by moment. If we lapse into sin, it does not negate our relationship with Christ.

Fact 6 When you were saved you were given life from the dead.

Fact # 7 if you are saved you are not of the flesh.

Rulz: Hence the exhortations to walk in the Spirit and in the light and to not walk in the flesh (still possible, but exception vs norm). Some believers were yielding to the flesh, so needed correction and a reminder that we are free from this bondage and do not need to nor should do what we used to do. Being saved is not the same thing as future glorification. Some still struggle with old desires as they mature. Some baby Christians fall and fail. God changes their diaper. He does not throw the baby out or say the messed diaper is not really there. We are alive in Christ and should walk in this. It still does not preclude the possibility of lusting over porn. This is why we should join Job and make a covenant with our eyes to not look lustfully at a woman. We yield to the Spirit and His holiness rather than giving in to fleshly gratification outside God's parameters.

Fact # 8 If you are saved you are of the spirit and not of the flesh.

Rulz: This is the normative experience. We still have to walk in newness of life and say 'no' to our former desires in the power of the Spirit and conformity to His Word. Why do some believers struggle? It is possible. Others do not. If it was only all of God, we would all be equally mature instantly and no one would fail or fall (the fact that many do contradicts your conclusions...you have no ministry experience if you think the people of God are 'perfect'...saying we are perfect in Christ is simplistic if we are living like the Corinthian 'saints').

Fact # 9 It is not you that sins but the sin that is condemned in the flesh sins. but that is not you if you are born of God.

Rulz: Huh? If I take my penis and put it in someone's vagina that is not my wife, I AM SINNING. I am responsible. I will be convicted. I better repent and renew obedience. It is ME who sins. This is why I am responsible. If I murder someone in rage, I will not get off by saying that it was not me who did it, but my flesh?! "Born again" is also one of several metaphors (comparison) for salvation. It does not mean we are sock puppets. The flesh is not a second will in the same body. We have ONE will, not two wills. We are ONE person, not two people fighting inside us. We are spirit, soul (will, intellect, emotions), and body. Our spirit lives in and through our body. We can yield our body to righteousness or to unrighteousness (Romans 6). Your assumptions are indefensible nonsense on this point. There is not a personal 'flesh' back of my will making me sin that I will not be responsible for. I cannot blame it on Adam. I cannot blame it on Satan. I cannot blame it on a nebulous principle you call 'flesh' that does things against our wills. God condemns our misuse of the will. Hence, the commands in the NT that require us to obey rather than disobey. He gives us the power to obey, but it is still us obeying (with the unfortunate possibility that some will disobey at times).

Fact # 10 If you have not received the spirit of God you do not belong to Him.

Rulz: Jn. 1:12 We receive Christ through repentant faith. We are justified (treated as if we never sinned), set apart initially and then progressively (sanctified), until we are glorified. The Christian life lived between conversion and resurrection may or may not have isolated lapses of disobedience or yielding to bodily desires (body/flesh= same Greek word). This does not mean that we do not have the Spirit. Unbelievers do not have the Spirit and persist in habitual, godless sin. Believers have the Spirit and eternal life. It is normative to not sin, but IF we sin (not unbelief), we have an advocate who brings us back on track and forgives and cleanses even as we return to walking in the Spirit and light in that choice again. One sin does not mean we do not have the Spirit or that we lose our salvation. Faith vs unbelief determines sin. Works, Christian living, growth, sin vs holiness, etc. are subsequent to salvation and a different issue than the contrast between believer and unbeliever (both can commit the sin of adultery... you cannot deny this..so your 'sinless perfection' views and sentences are not profound...some of your assumptions are flawed leading to flawed conclusions).
Why do you refute the Gospel with ever breath? I believe you have a form of the Gospel but deny the power of it.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
elected4ever said:
Why do you refute the Gospel with ever breath? I believe you have a form of the Gospel but deny the power of it.


You confuse justification, sanctification, glorification, redemption, etc. The gospel is the power of God to save us. There is provision for past, present, and future sins. We are free from the penalty of sin (justification), the power of sin (sanctification), and the presence of sin in the future (glorification). While we are in the body, we may yield to temptation. This does not negate our relationship with the person of Christ nor the power of His finished work. Recognizing a possible struggle in the Christian life universally experienced by all believers in all times (are you familiar with Augustine?) is not tantamount to refuting or denying the Gospel that saves us despite these isolated struggles. "Sinless perfectionism" is one of many heresies in church history. Don't be a sucker and do not slander those who rightly divide the Word without your propensity to proof texting and circular reasoning. Are all my comments false and invalid? What is your practical explanation of adultery by a believer from a Christian perspective (see the immorality in the Corinthian church and Paul's response to it...he did not spout your sinless perfectionism!).

Romans 1-3 Condemnation
Rom. 4; 5 Justification
Rom. 6-8 Sanctification
9-11 God's sovereign election of national Israel
12-16 practical exhortations and Christian living

Romans 6-8 refutes your view. You should also not confuse justification by grace through faith apart from works (we agree on this heart of the gospel) with subsequent Christian living (the good, bad, and ugly) until we are glorified in the future.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
elected4ever said:
So, you had to be saved before you were saved according to godrulz.

Huh? While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Rom. 5:8). We cannot save ourselves. Upon repentant faith (receiving Christ), the Holy Spirit regenerates us. We cannot save nor regenerate ourself. We are justified and set apart when we call on the name of the Lord. Before that instant, we are condemned sinners.

Please do not misrepresent my views. Understand them before you reject them or refute them.

We have eternal life upon confession of faith in Christ and His finished work. We have eternal life (present tense) according to I John 5:11-13. Nothing is able to separate us from the love of God (external circumstances, Satan, etc.). He is able to keep us from falling and to present us in His presence (Jude 24, 25). These great truths for BELIEVERS (those who believe and continue to believe, by definition, and based on Greek present, continous verb tenses). They do not negate the other passages that warn about the possibility of falling away or apostasizing (UNBELIEVER, by definition= condemned). Those in the Son have eternal life. Those who are not in the Son at death or Second Coming do not inherently have life eternal. These truths also do not negate the very human picture of the saints who struggle with the flesh at times despite new life in Christ (King David, Corinthians, etc.).
 

elected4ever

New member
godrulz said:
What we understand about your statements may be different than you intended. They need qualifying for clarification.
I am not so concerned with what you think about the statements. We will cross that bridge when we get there. What i am concerned with right now is are they true statements or not. If we do not start with true statements then what we think about them is not relevant.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
elected4ever said:
I am not so concerned with what you think about the statements. We will cross that bridge when we get there. What i am concerned with right now is are they true statements or not. If we do not start with true statements then what we think about them is not relevant.


I think some of the statements have incorrect assumptions. Our underlying views tend to get imported into Scripture. Few of us are without bias. I do not think your true statements lead to all the conclusions you assume either.

e.g. point 2 'cannot sin' is not defensible since will not is not the same as cannot...it is easy to show that adultery is a sin in any dispensation, and that believers can be guilty of this sin. You must beg the question/circular reason to defend your point. It is not self-evident from Scripture (I Jn. 3:9 has alternate understandings based on context and grammar) and certainly not from anecdotal experience of honest believers and church history (including historical biblical narratives).
 

Ecumenicist

New member
As Knight says through quoting Paul, we are "covered" by Christ, not ourselves. We
are righteous in Christ, not in ourselves.

Saying "I am sinless" without the qualifier "through Christ" is deluded.

I've started threads in the past discussing the "schizophrenia" that this sinless spirit,
sinful flesh paradigm encourages. In this forum, a more accurate nomenclature would
be "Sozophrenia."

One paradigm that helps mitigate this "problem" is the brokenness / wholeness paradigm.
Sin is brokenness, Sinlessness is Wholeness.

Flesh breaks down, but by the Grace of God has the ability to heal. Healing is
accelerated if one is placed in a healing environment.

Salvation is the state of being receptive to and accepting the true Healing Grace which the
Holy Spirit provides. By accepting Christ's death and resurrection on our behalf, we open
ourselves to the healing Grace which God rains down 24/7.

From this perspective, a more accurate way to express the idea in modern English might
be to say "I am made sinless through Christ who strengthens me." This is the truth that
represents Scripture and reality, we continue to sin, but in Salvation, through Christ, we
are also in a state of constant healing, we are constantly being made sinless
through Christ.

Dave
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I am not sure it is helpful to confuse our standing in Christ with any given choice. There is a difference between a believer in Christ and a selfish unbeliever dead in sin. There is a difference between sexual purity (believer or unbeliever) and sexual sin (adultery, whether a believer or unbeliever). Any given choice can be virtue (obedience/conformity to God's holiness/law) or vice (disobedience). A believer who fornicates cannot say that the specific motive, action, thought is righteous even though Christ is righteous and is in us.
 

elected4ever

New member
godrulz said:
I think some of the statements have incorrect assumptions. Our underlying views tend to get imported into Scripture. Few of us are without bias. I do not think your true statements lead to all the conclusions you assume either.

e.g. point 2 'cannot sin' is not defensible since will not is not the same as cannot...it is easy to show that adultery is a sin in any dispensation, and that believers can be guilty of this sin. You must beg the question/circular reason to defend your point. It is not self-evident from Scripture (I Jn. 3:9 has alternate understandings based on context and grammar) and certainly not from anecdotal experience of honest believers and church history (including historical biblical narratives).
Why are you so willing to base your life on contingencies and not on the absolute fact? To me this spells unbelief and not belief. Ether God is true or He is not. Salvation is not based on a contingency program. This is not a maintenance program. God has given you life by His seed or He has not. You sin and are of the devil or you have been given life by the seed of God and cannot sin because you posses the life of God. We live by the faith of Christ and not faith in Christ. As HE (Jesus) is so are we in this world. Notice the tense. It is the present tense. That is what we are today. To say that we sin is the same as saying Christ sins today. We are capable of offending as lone as we remain in the flesh and subject ourselves to the discipline of the Father. Even to the extent of our being removed from this world. But the life we have received from the Father is never taken from us. There is no scripture that supports your position. Make no mistake about it. You are dead in sin or alive in the Christ. You cannot be of the darkness and live in the light. When the light comes the darkness flees. If you prefer to remain in the darkness it means that you love the darkness rather than the light. We have become the slaves of righteousness and have been set free from the law of sin and death. You are ether or and not both. To be a child of god and remain in sin is an oxymoron. it is an impossibility. What fellowship has the light with the darkness. There is no such thing as being a righteous sinner. You are righteous or you are a sinner. Sinners do not seek the things of God but the righteous do not seek the things of of the flesh. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and the rest will be added.Those of the flesh do mind the things of the flesh and those of the Spirit the things of the Spirit. and you are of the Spirit if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you and if you have not the Spirit you are none of His. It is cut and dried! You are or you are not. There is no maybe.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
elected4ever said:
Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose (Offenses) are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute (his Offenses).”
e4e... in your retranslation of Romans 4 you replaced the word "sin" with "offenses" but even that refutes your own point. After all... what does "And whose (Offenses) are covered" mean to you?

Why would "offenses" need to be covered? Covered from what?
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
elected4ever said:
Why are you so willing to base your life on contingencies and not on the absolute fact? To me this spells unbelief and not belief. Ether God is true or He is not. Salvation is not based on a contingency program. This is not a maintenance program. God has given you life by His seed or He has not. You sin and are of the devil or you have been given life by the seed of God and cannot sin because you posses the life of God. We live by the faith of Christ and not faith in Christ. As HE (Jesus) is so are we in this world. Notice the tense. It is the present tense. That is what we are today. To say that we sin is the same as saying Christ sins today. We are capable of offending as lone as we remain in the flesh and subject ourselves to the discipline of the Father. Even to the extent of our being removed from this world. But the life we have received from the Father is never taken from us. There is no scripture that supports your position. Make no mistake about it. You are dead in sin or alive in the Christ. You cannot be of the darkness and live in the light. When the light comes the darkness flees. If you prefer to remain in the darkness it means that you love the darkness rather than the light. We have become the slaves of righteousness and have been set free from the law of sin and death. You are ether or and not both. To be a child of god and remain in sin is an oxymoron. it is an impossibility. What fellowship has the light with the darkness. There is no such thing as being a righteous sinner. You are righteous or you are a sinner. Sinners do not seek the things of God but the righteous do not seek the things of of the flesh. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and the rest will be added.Those of the flesh do mind the things of the flesh and those of the Spirit the things of the Spirit. and you are of the Spirit if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you and if you have not the Spirit you are none of His. It is cut and dried! You are or you are not. There is no maybe.

There is a difference between a believer and an unbeliever, between walking in light vs darkness, between walking in the spirit vs flesh, between obedience and disobedience (Deuteronomy...the people of God were blessed for obedience and cursed for disobedience), between our standing as children of God vs children of the devil, between eternal life vs eternal punishment, between a right choice and a wrong choice, etc.

Do not confuse the forest with the trees. Being a believer does not mean that one can never have a wrong choice, motive, or action. Just because someone messes up is not identical to being a godless reprobate. Just because I Christian teen goes to far sexually does not mean their sin is just a 'mistake'. Nor does it forfeit their eternal life (hence I am not denying the great truths about believers). There is a difference between or relationship with God or lack thereof, and any given thought, motive, action in any specific minute of our Christian walk.
 

elected4ever

New member
godrulz said:
There is a difference between a believer and an unbeliever, between walking in light vs darkness, between walking in the spirit vs flesh, between obedience and disobedience (Deuteronomy...the people of God were blessed for obedience and cursed for disobedience), between our standing as children of God vs children of the devil, between eternal life vs eternal punishment, between a right choice and a wrong choice, etc.

Do not confuse the forest with the trees. Being a believer does not mean that one can never have a wrong choice, motive, or action. Just because someone messes up is not identical to being a godless reprobate. Just because I Christian teen goes to far sexually does not mean their sin is just a 'mistake'. Nor does it forfeit their eternal life (hence I am not denying the great truths about believers). There is a difference between or relationship with God or lack thereof, and any given thought, motive, action in any specific minute of our Christian walk.
You do not know what a child of God is and I could care less what you think. As for as it being a mistake, God does not make a mistake. You do not believe God. End of story.
 

elected4ever

New member
Knight said:
e4e... in your retranslation of Romans 4 you replaced the word "sin" with "offenses" but even that refutes your own point. After all... what does "And whose (Offenses) are covered" mean to you?

Why would "offenses" need to be covered? Covered from what?
I have never said that I have not offended anyone. I said I have no sin. You are just to stupid to know the differance.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
elected4ever said:
I have never said that I have not offended anyone. I said I have no sin. You are just to stupid to know the differance.
Thank you for the insult but you didn't answer my question. I asked...

If (as you assert) Romans 4 should actually be translated...

"And whose (Offenses) are covered"

Why would "offenses" need to be covered? Covered from what?

My question is highlighted in BLUE.
 
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