Another tally of anti-trinitarian threads

OZOS

Well-known member
Jesus clearly said to be one as he and the father are one. So if we are one as they are one then that shows us that Jesus being one with the father doesn't mean that Jesus is God.
Again, you lack a basic understanding of spiritual things, not to mention logic and terms. We (the body) are one. They (God) are one. Simple.

Nevertheless, you continue to ignore all the evidence where Jesus claimed to be God in Revelation.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't.
Again, you are FORCING your INCORRECT understanding on the text.
And Jesus also said the father is his God and that he is greater than he.
This does NOT mean that Jesus is not God.
If the father is the only true God according to Jesus, and he is the God of Jesus and greater than him then Jesus can't be God!
Again, you try to FORCE your meaning onto the text.
And yes God is in Christ but Christ isn't God. It says in the Bible that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. But that's totally different to Christ is God. And Paul says that the head of Christ is God. So Christ Jesus isn't God.
The Word was GOD and the Word was made flesh. John 1:1 & 14
 

marhig

Well-known member
Again, you lack a basic understanding of spiritual things, not to mention logic and terms. We (the body) are one. They (God) are one. Simple.

Nevertheless, you continue to ignore all the evidence where Jesus claimed to be God in Revelation.
And Jesus was given that revelation from God it didn't come from himself. So it's from God through Christ and revealed to John through an angel.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
 

marhig

Well-known member
Again, you are FORCING your INCORRECT understanding on the text.

This does NOT mean that Jesus is not God.

Again, you try to FORCE your meaning onto the text.

The Word was GOD and the Word was made flesh. John 1:1 & 14

No I'm not forcing my understanding at all, I'm clearly quoting Jesus who says that the father is the ONLY true God and Jesus says that he sent him to do his will! And Jesus says that the father is his God. That's not my understanding, that's clearly written in the bible!
 

OZOS

Well-known member
And Jesus was given that revelation from God it didn't come from himself. So it's from God through Christ and revealed to John through an angel.
:LOL: You're an idiot, and a coward. Jesus called Himself "God" in that letter. He also called Himself the "Alpha and Omega", the "first and the Last", the "beginning and the end". Keep ignoring the truth, you pervert, and you will hear Jesus say "I never knew you". You certainly don't know Him.
 

Right Divider

Body part
No I'm not forcing my understanding at all, I'm clearly quoting Jesus who says that the father is the ONLY true God and Jesus says that he sent him to do his will!
The scripture does NOT say that ONLY the Father is the true God. You believe that despite the lack of evidence or support.
And Jesus says that the father is his God.
AS A MAN. Jesus is GOD and MAN.
Joh 1:1 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
God made flesh. So simple.
That's not my understanding, that's clearly written in the bible!
Nope. It's your false and forced interpretation.

What scripture says: The Father is the only true God.
What you THINK that scripture says: Only the Father is the true God.

What you THINK is incorrect.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't.
I'm not sure if you can grasp this, but what you just said is a rationalization. An 'if/then' that isn't demonstrably true. It isn't a horrible assumptions but it IS an assumption. RATHER we need to read all of scripture and not pit one scripture against another. Clearly, John 20:28 says Jesus Christ is the "Lord of me (Thomas)" and "God of me (Thomas)." IF you are going to hold to scriptures, then hold to all of them. That is all a Trinitarian insists: that it is Biblically responsible. Thomas called Jesus, his God.
And Jesus also said the father is his God and that he is greater than he. If the father is the only true God according to Jesus, and he is the God of Jesus and greater than him then Jesus can't be God!
Notice 'Father' in your discussion? Nobody is arguing that Jesus isn't subordinate to the Father. Being literally the "Only" begotten son would make that one what? (God, unlike any other being, ever as an "Only") Next? How many 'gods' are there? (One "There will never be another")
What does this demand? It demands an orthodox scripture-honoring position that recognizes these truths of scripture. We call such people "Trinitarian."
And yes God is in Christ but Christ isn't God.
Not what Thomas said, though, is it? 🤔 "Marhig MUST be incorrect" right?
It says in the Bible that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself.
Fine with the first line, the other is 'leading' in rationalization that really does do damage to scripture, especially John 20:28. We have to suggest that Marhig has been careless with his rationalization. He 'assumed' something that cannot be true, scripturally.
But that's totally different to Christ is God
So is John 1:1 Was 'with' God AND 'was' God. But scripture literally says that. Shouldn't men try to stop rationalizing what they think and thumping their 'rationale' as if it were true? 🤔
And Paul says that the head of Christ is God. So Christ Jesus isn't God.
Not in the sense that He is the Father but Thomas does call Christ the 'God of me.' Reread John 1:1: Contextually it isn't easy to grasp a being that is 'with' Himself and 'is' Himself at the same time, but that is exactly what that scripture says. It really doesn't matter if Unitarians try to say the "Word" wasn't Jesus or was 'an idea' though both are truly stretches in rationalizations that don't fit the text: what they actually fail to grasp is that whatever such is, it is BOTH with AND the identity of God at the same time. There is no way to get around that, scripture says it explicitly. No Unitarians/Arian rationalization is capable when you grasp that grammatically structured truth: It forces a Trinitarian position. Scripture does.
 

marke

Well-known member
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't. And Jesus also said the father is his God and that he is greater than he. If the father is the only true God according to Jesus, and he is the God of Jesus and greater than him then Jesus can't be God!

And yes God is in Christ but Christ isn't God. It says in the Bible that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. But that's totally different to Christ is God. And Paul says that the head of Christ is God. So Christ Jesus isn't God.
God has commanded every creature in heaven and earth to fall down and worship Jesus. That does not contradict God's command that we worship nobody but God.
 

marke

Well-known member
Your evidence is flawed, just like Trump's.
Democrats who still believe Adam Schiff has concrete evidence that Trump conspired with Russia to steal the DNC emails which sank Hillary's hope of being elected, also still stupidly think Trump's make America great plan is evil and should be replaced with the new democrat socialist 'make America a bankrupted black racist communist 3rd world has been nation' plan.
 

marke

Well-known member
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't. And Jesus also said the father is his God and that he is greater than he. If the father is the only true God according to Jesus, and he is the God of Jesus and greater than him then Jesus can't be God!

And yes God is in Christ but Christ isn't God. It says in the Bible that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. But that's totally different to Christ is God. And Paul says that the head of Christ is God. So Christ Jesus isn't God.
Jesus created the universe and all things therein. He is God, no matter what sort of distinctions exist between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
 

Lon

Well-known member
the Bible says that the Lord God Almighty is the beginning and the end.

Jesus is the Lord God Almighty, the Alpha the Omega, the First and the Last, and besides Him, there is no God.
Has so much power when the OT and NT quotes are laid side by side like that. Thanks -Lon
 

marke

Well-known member
I don't often comment in threads. I mainly just follow to see individuals best arguments.
I saw both NWL and Pierac's comments about the standard of argumentation on TOL being very low. My observation is that for a while now individuals have expressed mainly emotional arguments rather than rational ones based on evidence. Or they just avoid difficult discussions and just assert that what they believe is correct.

I have to say after reading right divider poor arguments (which are just assertions), and Trump girls childish responses, as well as others, I can't help agreeing that TOL has hit all time low.

Does anyone know any sites or forums where real debates on the Trinity and other subjects are still happening?

Or trinitarians, do you not know anyone who is well versed in scripture who you can encourage to come and give a biblical defense for your beliefs?
Poor Bible students end up lost in a field of errors because they try too hard to makes sense of God. God is like the image we see in Ezekiel 1 - He cannot be comprehended by human intellect. Of course Jesus is God. That cannot be denied. Of course He is the Son of God. That also cannot be denied. What does that mean? Of course He is both God and man.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Poor Bible students end up lost in a field of errors because they try too hard to makes sense of God. God is like the image we see in Ezekiel 1 - He cannot be comprehended by human intellect. Of course Jesus is God. That cannot be denied. Of course He is the Son of God. That also cannot be denied. What does that mean? Of course He is both God and man.
Ezekiel's image is talking about His attributes, so not THAT hard to grasp what Ezekiel is saying. That said, Mixed_Brown wasn't being genuine, just rattling off a Unitarian commercial. His assessment couldn't possibly be true because I'd read the answers in thread. Judge Rightly had done a very good job using scriptures to that point. Mixed_Brown was either inept, ignorant, and or dishonest on that post.
 

marke

Well-known member
Ezekiel's image is talking about His attributes, so not THAT hard to grasp what Ezekiel is saying. That said, Mixed_Brown wasn't being genuine, just rattling off a Unitarian commercial. His assessment couldn't possibly be true because I'd read the answers in thread. Judge Rightly had done a very good job using scriptures to that point. Mixed_Brown was either inept, ignorant, and or dishonest on that post.
Here is how John saw what Jesus looked like:


Revelation1

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
 

7djengo7

Well-known member
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't.

When you say "Jesus isn't God," by your word, "God," are you referring to the Father? Yes or No?

  • If, by your word, "God," you are referring to the Father, then this is what you are telling us: "Jesus isn't [the Father]." Observe that, if you are telling us that the Son, Jesus, is not the Father, you are therein failing to attack the Trinity; rather, you're merely preaching to the Trinitarian choir, since it is a tenet of Trinitarianism that the Son is not the Father.
  • If, by your word, "God," you are not referring to the Father, then to whom are you referring to by it?

Also, in the passage to which you are referring (John 17:3), which of these, two things is what Jesus says to the Father, and which of them does He not say?

  1. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
  2. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only person who is the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
Correct answer: Jesus says #1, and He never says #2. But anti-Trinitarians would like Jesus to mean something He never says.
 

marke

Well-known member
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't. And Jesus also said the father is his God and that he is greater than he. If the father is the only true God according to Jesus, and he is the God of Jesus and greater than him then Jesus can't be God!

And yes God is in Christ but Christ isn't God. It says in the Bible that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. But that's totally different to Christ is God. And Paul says that the head of Christ is God. So Christ Jesus isn't God.
If Jesus is not God then what good is He?

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

If Jesus is not God then He is not the Savior.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

If Jesus is not God then God did not create the world.

  1. John 1:3
    All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
  2. John 1:10
    He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
 
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