SaulToPaul 2
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What "mattered" about the Law?
ECT Acts realism vs MAD theoretics: Acts 16:3
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What "mattered" about the Law?
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Yep... that's what he wrote.... :noway:
SimpleMan77
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The Book of Acts is one of the most important books of the Bible. It tells how the 12 men who were trained for approximately 240,000 hrs by God in the flesh heard and interpreted His commands. These 12 men had the equivalent of more time than it takes to get a PhD, and were under the direct tutelage of the greatest "professor" in time and eternity.
Jesus wouldn't have left this earth without being absolutely sure His master-plan was in faithful, trained, capable hands. This was the plan that His whole creation plan was based around, and it would not fail.
The first 4 books of the NT tell of Jesus's earthly work, culminating in His death, burial & resurrection.
All books after Acts show how to continue in grace after conversion (+ 1 book that tells the future prophetically)
Acts tells how to BE THE CHURCH! How to reach the world. How to obey the Gospel. It is the "actions" of the church, which actions were never meant to stop. The proper church today should model the Book of Acts church!!!
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Jesus wouldn't have left this earth without being absolutely sure His master-plan was in faithful, trained, capable hands. This was the plan that His whole creation plan was based around, and it would not fail.
The first 4 books of the NT tell of Jesus's earthly work, culminating in His death, burial & resurrection.
All books after Acts show how to continue in grace after conversion (+ 1 book that tells the future prophetically)
Acts tells how to BE THE CHURCH! How to reach the world. How to obey the Gospel. It is the "actions" of the church, which actions were never meant to stop. The proper church today should model the Book of Acts church!!!
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Where do get this crazy stuff?
240,000 hours is over 82 years. Even if you divided that by 12 apostles, it's still almost 7 years.
As usual, you neglect or reject the revelation that the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ gave to Paul.
The first 4 books of the so-called NT, are predominately OT. Jesus was born under the law and taught the law. The new covenant could not even start until His death which is at the VERY END of all four of those books.
So completely WRONG that it's typical of modern "churchianity".
The books of Acts is all about the FALL of Israel and the raising of a NEW and DIFFERENT apostle that received REVELATION from the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ.
It's too bad that you're stuck in the WRONG dispensation of God.
SimpleMan77
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Should have said 240,000 man-hours I guess. Math is still solid. Approximately 16 waking hrs a day with Jesus x 1,275 days (3.5 years) x 12 men = 240,000 man-hours of training.
Contrast that with this - you can read the 4 accounts of His teaching in less that a day. That's a microscopic amount recorded compared to what they saw and heard.
We'd better follow their example and obey whatever they wrote or said.
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ONCE AGAIN... you completely ignore the fact that the RISEN and ASCENDED LORD Jesus Christ appeared to Paul and gave him NEW revelation.
We'd better follow God's CURRENT revelation rather than the one that is NOT currently in operation.
SimpleMan77
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Paul never says His revelation was His until revealed to him, he said it was His until it was revealed. God revealed it to the 12 apostles through dying, being buried, then resurrected before their very eyes, then sending them to convert all nationalities.
God revealed the same message to Paul directly from heaven.
It was a new mystery until God revealed it to His Apostles and Prophets after Calvary. Paul was used of God mightily to preach this revealed mystery to the Gentiles. However, it was the same Gospel that the other Apostles were preaching, starting at Jerusalem, and eventually leading the to other nationalities.
Ephesians 3:3-5
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets BY THE SPIRIT
Paul said the Holy Ghost had revealed this mystery to the Apostles AND the prophets!!
Paul was different because God spoke this mystery to Him directly on the road to Damascus and in ensuing visions, but it matched perfectly to the other Apostles.
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Paul claims uniqueness of the revelations that he received.
This is why Paul can call it MY gospel.
Prove it.
Why OH why would God need to do that? That is ridiculous.
Paul revealed the mystery that he was given to EVERYONE.
YOU assume WHICH apostles that passage is talking about. You are confused.
PROVE IT.
Paul knew things that the 12 did NOT know. This is why Peter writes THIS:
2Pet 3:15-16 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:15) And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (3:16) As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
YOU are the unlearned. NOTE carefully that Peter says "wisdom given to HIM" and NOT "wisdom given to US"!
SimpleMan77
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I'll sum up what happened and what Paul said. In so many words his testimony was:
"After my experience on the road to Damascus I went into a time of seeking God, where God revealed the Gospel to me directly, not through preaching or teaching.
I began to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles, which aggravated some Pharisee converts, who claimed that the Gentiles needed to be circumcised to be saved. I agreed to go to ask the 12 Apostles at Jerusalem, knowing that if the Gospel that God had revealed to me did not match theirs my race would have been entirely in vain up to that point. However, when I compared my Gospel to theirs, the message was identical!!
Peter reminded everyone that God had first used him to preach to the Gentiles, and had purified the household of Cornelius thru faith without the works of the law.
The only thing they thought I was lacking was a mind to reach out to the poor (which I already was zealous to do, I had just forgotten to mention it in my explanation of my Gospel)."
Paul obviously wrote things hard for some to understand - so hard, in fact, that some people wrest them to say that he is at odds with Peter and James. They wrest them to say that his "faith without works" means that you can be saved living an unholy life, because denying ungodliness and worldly lusts would be "trying to earn salvation".
Yes, Paul had a depth of revelation unparalleled by probably everyone. Depth, however, is totally different than saying he had a "new gospel". Even new precepts about the Gospel is completely different than having a "new Gospel".
If his Gospel was new, than James was cursed according to Gal 1:8 for preaching something different.
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That is a super cute fairy tale that I'm sure many here will agree with. But I've read the Bible and know better.
Paul did NOT go to Jerusalem to "check" with them. He went to TEACH them something!
Read CAREFULLY:
Gal 2:1-9 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:1) Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with [me] also. (2:2) And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. (2:3) But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: (2:4) And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: (2:5) To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. (2:6) But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person
for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me: (2:7) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter; (2:8) (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles (2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me: (2:7) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter; (2:8) (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles (2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
- They added NOTHING to Paul
- But CONTRARIWISE, Paul ADDED something to them!
- According to YOU, Paul waited SEVENTEEN YEARS to verify what he was teaching the SAME thing as them.
- That's dumb.
You can't have it both ways. If you want "being good" to be required for salvation, you're denying the salvation by grace through faith.
Eph 2:4-10 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (2:5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved (2:6) And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: (2:7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(2:6) And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: (2:7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Paul had a more in-depth knowledge because received revelation that NOBODY else had. That is why Paul could FULFILL the Word of God!
Col 1:25-29 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (1:26) [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (1:27) To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (1:28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (1:29) Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Your willful ignorance it tiring. Get with God's program.
No, it's just more of your confusion. Please read my blog that explains this simple error: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?3469-Another-gospel-in-Galatians-1
SimpleMan77
New member
Paul was simply saying to the Galatians "if myself or anyone, angels included, preaches to you that you have to be circumcised to be saved, let him be accursed".
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Interplanner
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That is a super cute fairy tale that I'm sure many here will agree with. But I've read the Bible and know better.
Paul did NOT go to Jerusalem to "check" with them. He went to TEACH them something!
Read CAREFULLY:
Gal 2:1-9 (AKJV/PCE)(2:1) Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with [me] also. (2:2) And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. (2:3) But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: (2:4) And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: (2:5) To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. (2:6) But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person
- They added NOTHING to Paul
- But CONTRARIWISE, Paul ADDED something to them!
- According to YOU, Paul waited SEVENTEEN YEARS to verify what he was teaching the SAME thing as them.
- That's dumb.
You can't have it both ways. If you want "being good" to be required for salvation, you're denying the salvation by grace through faith.
Eph 2:4-10 (AKJV/PCE)(2:4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (2:5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Paul had a more in-depth knowledge because received revelation that NOBODY else had. That is why Paul could FULFILL the Word of God!
Col 1:25-29 (AKJV/PCE)(1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (1:26) [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (1:27) To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (1:28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (1:29) Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Your willful ignorance it tiring. Get with God's program.
No, it's just more of your confusion. Please read my blog that explains this simple error: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?3469-Another-gospel-in-Galatians-1
They added nothing to what he said, so they were not teaching a separate gospel for Jews.
And, Mr Bible Alone, why should we read your blog, when the passage is perfectly clear?
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:juggle:
So getting circumcised is "another gospel". Try again.
SimpleMan77
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You display a profound lack of understanding as to the purpose of the book of Galatians. It was specifically written to counter the teachings of Judaizers who had come preaching that the law of Moses had to be kept by the Gentile Christians there.
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Interplanner
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It is. You are ignorant of what the Judaizers were about. They accepted the Gospel of Christ but said you had to do circ in addition.
Paul added nothing to the Apostles at Jerusalem.
No scripture says Paul did.
LA
No scripture says Paul did.
LA
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Not even a good effort on your path DB!
Interplanner
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Right, the 'infiltration' was not between Paul and the rest. It was between all of them and Judaizers (the infiltrators). MAD is baseless again.
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MAD is solid; you are clueless.
Interplanner
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Gal 4:17 is about the Judaizers not other apostles. MAD is an amateur approach, as failed as the D'ism inherent in it.
PS, you must give reasons, not "declarations of victory."
PS, you must give reasons, not "declarations of victory."