A Saviour unto Israel

beloved57

Well-known member
All the OT Saints, the Seed of Abraham, did die in Hope to obtain a better Resurrection as Per Heb 11:35

35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

And that better Resurrection is only to be found in the Man Christ Jesus 1 Cor 15:21

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

The man Christ Jesus, the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

And His Resurrection is that as of a Head to His Body the Church. So there is no Resurrection of the Dead outside of His.

Remember the sister of Lazarus Jn 11:24-25

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And Jesus is the Head of the Church in His Resurrection ! Col 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

He is the Firstborn from the dead for all whom shall take part in the Resurrection of the Just, and so they have to be members of His Church. They shall be raised in His Likeness , as here Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Now that word image, its the greek word eikōn and means:
an image, figure, likeness,be like

Now, remember when David says , whom is an Old Testament Saint Ps 17:15

15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

That word also means image ! See Job 4:16

So Davids faith rested in being conformed unto the Image and Likeness of God's Son, the Firstborn of Many Brethren, and the Head of the Church. That nails it, that all whom had Hope of an better Resurrection must obtain to it through the resurrection of Christ the Head of the Body, His Church, whether OT Saint or NT Saint !
 

skinker

New member
skin



Thats right !



God did not tell me it was not His Word. Besides, you and i do not serve the same God, from what I read of your posts so far, your god is a dumb idol !

My God is Jesus. So you're saying Jesus is a dumb idol? My God led me to the right choice in recognizing Jesus' heavenly Father while Jesus was on earth. My God led me starting 34 years ago to recognizing the Bible stories could not be trusted for truth but had to be taken only as allegorical teachings. My God knew Israeli archeology would overturn Bible belief and prepared me 34 years ago to follow a different Christian path, the path of direct gnosis of God which beats the crap out of placing your whole religious belief system on the words of a bunch of ancient dead men as if being dead made them somehow different from live men in religious priesthoods, i.e., men prone to doing most anything to keep their jobs and abusing their privileges and moral standards of those who dedicate their lives to serving God.

No amount of slander of my Christian path counters the fact that my Christian beliefs will sail right over the coming End Times of Pauline Christianity that is attached to Bible belief when The Bible Unearthed shows the facts in the ground proving the Bible writers told fibs, big ones.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
skin

My God is Jesus.

The one you made up in your own mind. 2 Cor 11:4

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
 

skinker

New member
What, you actually think I would take the words of an unknown ancient man or should we say men or take what the Spirit tells me is true? You suffer from the Simon Says "jump" syndrome which makes your beliefs only those of Simon, not authentically your own at all, just words in a book that you parrot. A recording device does a better job.

Sorry, but if the the Bible is kaput for spiritual authority so is everything Paul told you because God didn't tell Paul the right information about the Bible like God told me.

And by the way, do read your New Testament better then you might learn that Jesus did become One with the Father when He ascended to heaven so don't hand us this phony different Jesus business you swallowed from Paul who broke Jesus' commandment for no man to elevate himself over others as Paul did, telling everyone else his gospel is to be believed and only his yet he doesn't teach any of Jesus' teachings, so Paul really is the Cuckoo Bird in Christian theology.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Rom 9:6

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

National Israel, Abraham's Children of the flesh, in and of itself was not God's Chosen People Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:


Only some individual's of it were, which God calls the foreknown, those God foreknew, A People which had been Chosen in Christ and by Grace, and had been Predestined unto the Adoption of Children Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

God's Elect People Chosen in Christ before the foundation is Israel, So Paul says in the words of my text Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

All National Israel are not Israel Chosen in Christ, the foreknown to be conformed to the Image of Christ Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Elect Israel are the Chosen in Christ regardless of race, Its an Israel based upon Grace, not race !

Now none of God's People [Foreknown Israel] could be cast away, for they are all Predetermined to be conformed to the Image of Christ Rom 8:29, Remember David said Ps 17:15

15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

This word Likeness also means:

form, image, likeness, representation, semblance

David as a Member of the Chosen foreknown Israel was speaking about the same thing as Rom 8:29, being conformed to God's Image, which is in Christ Jesus and is Christ Jesus 2 Cor 4:4

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Only a Remnant was God's Chosen !

Only a Remnant was God's Chosen !

Now even though National Israel in and of itself was not the Chosen of God, yet in her was housed for the most part the actual Chosen People of God, which was always a very small remnant Isa 1:9

Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

That's the point of Rom 11:4

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Now with the presence of the Remnant in National Israel, the Nation as a whole benefited and could be called corporately God's People or by Covenant, however that was a derivative of the actual Chosen People having National and Physical ties with that Nation, but the Gospel would be that which would separate the wheat from the tares, the precious from the vile, which is what John meant here Matt 3:9-12

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down[or cut off See Jn 15:6], and cast into the fire.

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Only a Remnant was God's Chosen !cont

Only a Remnant was God's Chosen !cont

That it was only a remnant of National Israel that was the Israel of Promise is shown by Paul's Illustration with Elijah Rom 11:3-4

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

God was only vested in a Remnant, those by His Power He reserved for Himself, to keep from Idolatry, BTW, God does that for all True Believers that belong also to the Israel of God/Promise !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Only a Remnant was God's Chosen !cont 3

Only a Remnant was God's Chosen !cont 3

Corporate Israel, that is Israel National comprised of merely Abraham's physical descendants, that is not the Israel that God made promises to, for they were flesh, God makes no Promises to the natural man in the flesh, The Israel God made promises to was an Spiritual Remnant within corporate Israel so Paul says Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

The Nation Israel was a Type, a picture of God's Chosen that were originally in Adam, the Father of all the Living !

The Nation of Israel was not God's People but only a remnant was, and that was God's Teaching to Elijah in his day Rom 11:3-4 !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Rom 9:6 and 11:7

Rom 9:6 and 11:7

Rom 9:6 and 11:7

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 11:7

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

These scriptures clearly point out the different Israels. In these verses we have a National Israel, and a Elect Israel which is of National Israel, Rom 11:7 confirms the same, National Israel was blinded, Elect Israel obtained that which he seeketh for, because sought by Faith.

Two Israel's here, The Election, and the rest ! The Election Israel sought Salvation and Righteousness in the Right Place, the Messiah, an example of such is here, which said of the Messiah Child Lk 2:25-32

25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting[in Faith] for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Elect Israel, jews in National Israel at the time, understood [spiritually] the Nature of the Salvation of Israel, that it was Spiritual, and that it had to do with Holiness and Forgiveness of sins, and deliverance from not natural but spiritual enemies [the fear of death] Lk 1:68-79

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Now the other Israel, the Nation in General full of Abraham's physical descendants in the flesh, were blinded to this Spiritual Understanding of Righteousness and Salvation and sought it by the Works of the law !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Now God's Israel under the Old Covenant was mostly comprised of Abraham's Physical seed [who had been born again] and ever so often a gentile was grafted in like a Rahab and a Ruth, however now under the New Covenant, God's Israel is mostly comprised of Gentiles, whom with Abraham's physical seed being grafted in ever so often, however with either, God's Israel is not a mere physical or ethnic people, but always has been a spiritual People, Those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Ps 51:6

Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Ps 73:1

Truly God is good to Israel, even to such as are of a clean heart. Or pure heart.

We should know by this, Israel in view is the regenerated, one with a New Heart !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Abraham's Heirship !

Abraham's Heirship !

Rom 4:13

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Heb 11:8-9

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:


Abraham's Heirship was not given to Him as the Father of His Physical Seed, National Israel, which was that People constituted a Nation at the Giving of the law Ex 20 Cp Rom 4:13, but to Him as the Father of the Faithful, to His Children that partake with him in the Righteousness of Faith [2 Pet 1:1], which Faith he had while yet being in uncircumcision Rom 4:11-13

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Now what Inheritance or heirship is meant here in Rom 4:13, the Heir of the World ? Its that Inheritance of the Everlasting Canaan Promised to Abraham and his seed according to the Righteousness of Faith, as seen here Gen 17:5-8

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

The word possession here means:


possession, property

a) land

b) possession by inheritance

Now Abraham first received this revealed Promise here Gen 12:1-4

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4 So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

This we know by Heb 11:8,16

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

And it was Heavenly Vs 16

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

And at that point in Abraham's Life Gen 12:1-4 he was uncircumcised, a Gentile !

So the Heirship is Established not according to his seed according to the Law, but that Seed of the Righteousness of Faith which he had while being uncircumcised !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
For the Lord hath chosen Zion !

For the Lord hath chosen Zion !

Ps 132:13

For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

Now whom is this Zion that God hath Chosen ? Its those Chosen by Him in Christ Jesus before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

No, its not national Israel, but it's Christ Body the Church, Chosen in Him before the foundation.

David said one time this Ps 106:5

That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

David here was not talking about national Israel, but he knew God had a special Chosen People by the Everlasting Covenant, which he acknowledged was all his Salvation 2 Sam 23:5

5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Now, notice also, that the Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4 are also made to be a Habitation, a Temple, a Dwelling for God forever Eph 2:21-22

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Again this Holy Temple is composed of those in Eph 1:4, not only that but the Church is called the Temple of the Lord or of God 1 Cor 3:16

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Which is the same Temple of Eph 2:21

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Which is also the same Temple of Ps 132:13-14

13 For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

God's Habitation Eph 2:22

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Where He dwells 1 Cor 3:16

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

We must be blind to all Spiritual Truth to not see that the Church Chosen in Christ is Zion of Ps 132:13-14 !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The mistake of most religionists concerning Israel!

The mistake of most religionists concerning Israel!

The mistake of most religionists regarding national Israel is that God at no time promised to save that whole nation which they believe. God's promise to that physical nation was only to save a remnant, this cannot be more clearer than Rom 9:27

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Some other translations properly add the word only as the ESV:

27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel[a] be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,

Only a remnant shall be saved regardless of how many else of them there shall be of that nation !

Now in light of that Truth, the cutting off of the nation as whole because of religious apostasy, which has been an issue with that nation since its formation, remember the golden calf incident ? Except for a small remnant , they were guilty !

This cutting off of them had been foretold of prophesied of Rom 11:8

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear ) unto this day.

Also Isa 29:10

10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

Isa 6:9-10

9 And he said, Go, and tell this people[National Israel], Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Paul was mindful of this prophecy here Acts 28:24-28


24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,

26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

National Israel doing this is described in Rom 10:2-3


2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

This is the result of what is prophesied in Isa 6:9-10. Yes their being ignorant of the Righteousness of God, and their seeking to establish their own Righteousness, their not submitting to God's Righteousness through and by Jesus Christ, that was God's will for them, for He had no intention or desire in converting them, which is summed up in both Isa 6:10 and Jn 12:39-40

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

That word heal is the same word Peter uses of those Christ bare their sins and the result it effected 1 Peter 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


This Israel that God had promised to save as Per Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Was not national Israel, or that would conflict with Rom 9:27, but that Israel was an Israel comprised of saving both jews and gentiles of the Election of Grace. Israel's Salvation Isa 45:17 would come through Gentile Salvation Acts 28:28

28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

What Salvation of God is here being referred to ? Why this one Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
God Purposed to harden National Israel !

God Purposed to harden National Israel !

Matt 13:13-15

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;

15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a] heal them.’

Notice again Jesus stating God's purpose in hardening and cutting off national Israel, for this passage looks back to Isa 6:9-10.

Yes in Christ's day on earth which commenced the New Covenant era and was terminating the Old Covenant era, and so God's word was being fulfilled in national Israel among the major majority of Abraham's physical seed.

Even the prophet David, by the same Spirit of Prophecy as Isaiah spoke of the same to the destruction of that nation Rom 11:9-10

9 And David says:


Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”[e]

What here is their table ? Its their religion, their beliefs about God, God turns it into a snare to them, so that it prevents them from submitting them unto God's only way of Salvation Rom 10:2-4

2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Christ and His Gospel is a snare to them, a stumblingblock, for remember Paul's words concerning them the jews in regards to the Gospel of Christ 1 Cor 1:23

23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks[a] foolishness,

And they were appointed to is nationally writes Peter 1 Pet 2:8

8 and


“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”[a]

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

The ESV reads:

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

And so God's words are fulfilled Matt 13:14 In them. Now David's words that Paul cites in Rom 11:9 are found here Ps 69:21-24 !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The Greatest sin !

The Greatest sin !

Jn 19:11

Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”

National Israel has committed the greatest sin against God and Christ that can be imagined, in their rejection of Christ and crucifixion, this is in light of the privileges they enjoyed by that nation being the one that Christ according to the flesh would come, and all the shadows and types they were much favored with of His Person and Work, so much so that those things preached the Gospel to them Heb 4:2

For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

Jesus said of them to pilate Jn 19:11

Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.

John Gill writes:

therefore he that delivered me unto thee, hath the greater sin; מן דילך, "than thine", as the Syriac version adds; and to the same purpose the Persic. Pilate had been guilty of sin already in scourging Christ, and suffering the Roman soldiers to abuse him; and would be guilty of a greater in delivering him up to be crucified, who he knew was innocent: but the sin of Judas in delivering him into the hands of the chief priests and elders, and of the chief priest and elders and people of the Jews, in delivering him to Pilate to crucify him, according to the Roman manner, were greater, inasmuch as theirs proceeded from malice and envy, and was done against greater light and knowledge; for by his works, miracles, and ministry, as well as by their own prophecies, they might, or must have known, that he was the Messiah, and Son of God: and it is to be observed, that as there is a difference in sin, and that all sins are not equal, the circumstances of things making an alteration; so that God's decree concerning the delivery of his Son into the hands of sinful men, does not excuse the sin of the betrayers of him.

And so God's Judgment towards them is with greater severity Rom 11:22

22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[f] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

And the severity of the Divine Judgment is expressed in the Prophetic breathings of David the Prophet King Ps 69:21-28

21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

22 Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.

23 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.

24 Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.

25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.

26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.

27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.

28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

As we will look at these imprecations, they are a recompense to them by God for their horrible sin !
 

Ps82

New member
A Savior for Israel, who was promised to come through Israel, became the Savior of the Gentiles as well.

Isaiah 43:11
I, (God), even I, am the LORD (the God of Israel, beside ME (as God and LORD) there is no savior.
Isaiah 45:21,22,25
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together (asking):
Who hath declared this from ancient time?
Who has told it from that time?
Have not I the LORD?
and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside ME.
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

If you proclaim Jesus Christ as your savior ... you must believe God that it is HIMSELF who came as our Savior... and trust the WORD of GOD /Jesus that he and the Father are ONE.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The Greatest sin !2

The Greatest sin !2

This Psalm 69 is very informative as to the Mind of God and Christ concerning the Judgment of national Israel for the Murder of Christ. They are called murderers. Matt 22:7

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Acts 7:52

Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

Now Vs 28 is quite severe and gives national Israel no hope of Salvation as a nation Ps 69:28

28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

In the Hebrew it reads " may they come not into your Righteousness" which is why as a nation they could never do this Rom 10:3

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

They as a national people shall never come into the experimental knowledge of the Righteousness of God that is made known in the Gospel to faith, so any future Salvation nationally for them is out of the question. God's Wrath began to be manifested under the New Covenant 1 Thess 2:14-16

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

A Parallel version reads:

in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

Which can also read completely or forever!

The very fact that God's wrath [ the wrath] is upon them is a statement that Christ's Death did not propitiate God's Wrath for them

and that God's Wrath upon them ensures that they shall not see Life Jn 3:36


36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Which answers the imprecation request of Ps 69:8

28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

The nation of Israel shall be down always Rom 11:10

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

This means being in servitude and bondage, there is no hope of Christ setting them free as here Jn 8:34-36

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

They shall not [as a nation] experience the Blessing of Ps 146:7-8

7 Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The Lord looseth the prisoners:

8 The Lord openeth the eyes of the blind: the Lord raiseth them that are bowed down: the Lord loveth the righteous:

But again, what saith the prayer of David against Israel Rom 11:10

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. Ps 69 !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Israel are the Children of Promise !

Israel are the Children of Promise !

Rom 9:6-8

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

They are this Seed Isa 45:25

In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Everyone being deceived thinks this Seed of Israel are the physical descendants of Abraham, but its not, no they are Abraham's Children of Promise which are the Seed of Israel that shall be Justified in the Lord Jesus Christ.

In Genesis 22:16-17

16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

After Abraham passed the Test given him by God to sacrifice the Child of Promise, God did reaffirm a Promise already made to him notice Vs 17 The offspring God promised to multiply here are not Abraham's Physical descendants, but his Spiritual descendants, or other Children of promise as Isaac was here, so Paul writes to believers in Christ, both jews and Gentiles this in Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

That's why Paul says in Rom 9:7

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

For Isaac was a Type of that Seed Israel which would be called !

And these descendants of Abraham would e distinct from his physical descendants Rom 9:8.

So in essence God's promise to Abraham in Gen 22:17 was a Promise to multiply the Children of God or Promise, which as a consequence would produce people with Faith in Christ, because it is written Gal 3:26

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The same Children of God as in Rom 9:8 ! See Gal 3:7 too !

Now the oath God made in Gen 22:17 was but a restating what God Promised Abraham in Gen 17:2-8

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

And this is what the writer of Hebrews points to in Heb 6:13-14,17

13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

And God's Immutable Counsel is anchored in His Eternal Purpose of Election as set forth in Eph 1:4,9-11 , The Heirs of Promise and the Elect in Christ are one and the same ! And that's Israel !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Ruler in Israel !

Ruler in Israel !

Micah 5:2

2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.


Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Many erroneously believe that Israel in Micah 5:2 is the physical nation of Israel, Abraham's physical descendants, but its not. Its a Spiritual Israel comprised of both jew and Gentile believers, the Spiritual Seed of Abraham. You see Jesus is the predicted Ruler here, and His Kingdom is not of this World Jn 18:36

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

A Kingdom is literally :

The realm in which a king sovereignly rules

Always requires a king

The Kingdom Jesus was referring to was presently His Kingdom, MY KINGDOM, and it was not a future kingdom, but one He properly possessed at that very time, in fact, He presently had servants of that Kingdom, He was then currently King and Ruler of His Kingdom.

Jesus Kingdom and Rulership is foundation ed upon His Finished Work of the Cross, and Isaiah mentions it Isa 9:6-7

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given [To die under the Law]: and the government or rule shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government or rule and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Notice in this Rule of His Kingdom He orders it ! That word order means:

to be firm, be stable, be established

a) (Niphal)

1) to be set up, be established, be fixed

a) to be firmly established

b) to be established, be stable, be secure, be enduring

c) to be fixed, be securely determined

2) to be directed aright, be fixed aright, be steadfast (moral sense)

3) to prepare, be ready

4) to be prepared, be arranged, be settled

b) (Hiphil)

1) to establish, set up, accomplish, do, make firm

2) to fix, make ready, prepare, provide, provide for, furnish

3) to direct toward (moral sense)

4) to arrange, order

This He does by the Gifts and Gifted Persons He gave His Church Eph 4:8-12

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Paul says also He set 1 Cor 12:18,28

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

The word body is soma and means:

is used of a (large or small) number of men closely united into one society, or family as it were; a social, ethical, mystical body

And this does describe a Kingdom which is:


1. a territory, state, people, or community ruled or reigned over by a king or queen

Its a commonwealth of which the Church is Eph 2:12-14


12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one[commonwealth or Kingdom], and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Christ is the Head of this Kingdom or Commonwealth.

Again a Kingdom is:

a state or government having a king or queen as its head.

And Christ is the King / Head of His Church !

Eph 1:22

And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Col 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

The Church, His Body is the Israel He is ruler of Mich 5:2 !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Acts 13:23 A Saviour unto Israel or His Body !

Acts 13:23 A Saviour unto Israel or His Body !

Acts 13:23

23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

Christ being a Saviour unto Israel, is the very same thing as being the Saviour of His Body the Church !

And as Paul stated, Jesus was raised unto Israel or His Body the Church a Saviour !

Notice to in Acts 13:23, Christ being raised unto Israel a Saviour was not something yet to be future.

You see Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

God's Word of Promise was being fulfilled to Israel at Christ's Resurrection, the point is Israel was not the Israel everyone thought it was. Israel was the Body of Christ, He was raised a Saviour unto Israel the same as being a Saviour unto the Body Eph 5:23.

The word body means:

is used of a (large or small) "number of men closely united into one society, or family as it were; a social, ethical, mystical body";

Could not Israel be defined in this manner ? Well so is the Church, for the Church is nothing but the Family of Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If one belongs to Christ, He belongs to the Body of Christ, that Body which He is the Saviour of Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

Now understand something, the body here in the original is τοῦ σώματος, yes its preceded by the definite article, it is His One and only Body, there is no other body of people He is a Saviour to.

And it has been pointed out that this Body is the Abraham's Seed Gal 3:29 which is another way of saying Israel, so as the Saviour of His Body, He is the Saviour of Israel, the one Israel as its the one Body !

So Israel in Acts 13:23 is not, I repeat it is not the physical nation of Israel, but its Israel according to the Spirit, all the Seed of Abraham Chosen in the Seed of Abraham which is Christ. That Christ is the Seed of Abraham is confirmed Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

But He is not Abraham's Physical Seed ! And those Chosen in Christ as His Body are Abraham's Seed, because they and Christ are One !

And it is to this Israel that He was raised to give Repentance unto Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel or His Body !, and forgiveness of sins.

And again, Repentance to Israel, to Israel is τῷ Ἰσραὴλ in other words He was raised to give Repentance to only Israel, the one and only, which would have to coincide with the Body of Eph 5:23 !

All who are Granted Repentance Acts 11:18 jew or Gentile is of Israel that Christ is the Saviour of !
 
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