A Real Walk Through Revelation

[Right Divider]

This is an alternative thread for those that would actually like to discuss the book of Revelation in its proper context. First some general notes about the book:

• The book was written by the apostle John.
  John is one of the 12 apostles that will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel (at the restoration of the kingdom of Israel).
  John, Peter and James agreed to limit their ministry to the circumcision (Gal 2:8)
• The overall language of the book is very "Jewish" (i.e., Israelite).
  "synagogue of Satan"
  Jezebel, enemy of Israel
  "key of David", "Root of David", "offspring of David"
  "which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie"
  "holy, holy, holy" (only other reference is the book of Isaiah, prophet of Israel)
  12 thousand from each of the 12 tribes of Israel (chapter 7)
  New Jerusalem (capital of Israel)
  12 gates with the names of the 12 tribes of Israel
  12 foundations with the name of the 12 apostles of the Lamb
  Many, many more
• Many parallels to the predictions (prophecies) of the prophets of Israel, especially Isaiah (see Isaiah 60, compare Rev 20). Also many parallels with Joel.

 

[Nick M]

Dating the book is important. That is why it is lied about, like most of the "New Testament". None of it contains the siege of Jerusalem by Rome. Showing everything was written in the first century before 70 AD. A good guess would be after the ascension and before Pentecost is why the Lord Jesus Christ revealed specific things to John.

Also this is a tangent, but those of us in Christ will have a glorified body, and will be permitted in the Kingdom on earth. (John 3)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.

19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

 

[Right Divider]

Dating the book is important. That is why it is lied about, like most of the "New Testament". None of it contains the siege of Jerusalem by Rome. Showing everything was written in the first century before 70 AD. A good guess would be after the ascension and before Pentecost is why the Lord Jesus Christ revealed specific things to John.

I thoroughly agree. The typical 96 AD date is truly ridiculous. Probably more like mid 60's.

Also this is a tangent, but those of us in Christ will have a glorified body, and will be permitted in the Kingdom on earth. (John 3)

John 3 is a big chapter, can you be more specific.

I don't think that John 3 has anything to do with the body of Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

Rev 2:14 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:14) But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.​

Clearly related to Israel and not the body of Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

Rev 4:4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:4) And round about the throne [were] four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.​

24 elders... is it just a coincidence that 24 is 2 times 12 (i.e., 2 per tribe of Israel)? I think not.

 

[Right Divider]

Rev 2:17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:17) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it]. ​

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Rev 3:12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:12) Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name. ​

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Isa 62:2 (AKJV/PCE)​

(62:2) And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.​

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Isaiah the prophet of Israel talking about Israel's future... confirmed in Revelation.

 

[Nick M]

John 3 is a big chapter, can you be more specific.

We are not born again. We are not resurrected. Have you noticed the cut and dried statements of people of John 3, except verse 8 then say they don't know what it means. And they ignore the jab against Nicodemus too. Verse 8 states that a person born again is like the wind in that we don't know where they came from or where they went. Like appearing from behind a locked door, or vanishing from their site. Ezekiel 37 describes the restoration of Israel and said they will be resurrected and put in their land. And while the Lord Jesus Christ was bring a teacher of Israel into understanding, we are fellow heirs brought near by the cross.

 

[Nick M]

8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Is this not what he told Israel in his earthly ministry? He even called the high priest the spawn of Satan.

 

[Nick M]

12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,

‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

James told them to flee these things. There is a letter in the Dead Sea Scrolls saying these things also. It was surmised that James to the recipient.

 

[Nick M]

18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,

‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.


24 “Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—

Teaching again that Israel must endure to the end and their faith (belief) will not save them.