ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
which rights, specifically, are being denied to illegal border crossers?
A Question For Those On The Left
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
which rights, specifically, are being denied to illegal border crossers?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Regarding the children:
Detention Conditions and Release Options for Children
As with all INS detainees, children held in INS detention are being detained for administrative reasons, not as punishment for criminal behavior. As a result of the 1996 amendments to the immigration laws, detention is mandatory for those classified as “aggravated felons,” for certain other criminal aliens, and for asylum seekers awaiting final decisions on their cases.28 In addition, the INS faces particular concerns in the case of unaccompanied minors. As the U.S. Supreme Court has noted, “the INS cannot simply send [juveniles] off into the night on bond or recognizance.”29
Until the early 1980s, there was no codified INS policy governing the detention and release of unaccompanied minors. A class action suit initiated in 1985, ultimately known as Flores v. Reno,challenged the INS Western Region’s blanket detention policy for minors and the prison-like conditions of detention. The INS settled Flores in 1997 and issued interim regulations based on the settlement agreement in 1998.30 The settlement agreement and interim implementing regulations include the following provisions:
· As a matter of general policy, the INS will place detained children “in the least restrictive setting appropriate to the juvenile’s age and special needs, provided that such setting is consistent with the need to ensure the juvenile’stimely appearance before the [INS] or the immigration court and to protect the juvenile’s well-being and that of others.”31
· Upon apprehending an unaccompanied child who is not an “arriving alien,” the INS must provide the child with a written notice of rights. If the child is under fourteen, the INS must read and explain the form to the child in a language he or she understands.32
· An unaccompanied child who is apprehended in the immediate vicinity of the border and who resides permanently in Mexico or Canada must be “informed” of his or her right to call a parent, “close relative,” friend, or “an organization found on the current list of pro bono counsel”; after so advising the unaccompanied child, the INS may present him or her with a voluntary departure form. All other unaccompanied children must “be provided access to a telephone and must, in fact, communicate with a parent, adult relative, friend, or an organization found on the current list of pro bono counsel prior to presentation of the voluntary departure form.”33
· Following arrest, the INS will permit contact with family members who were arrested with the child.34
· The INS must separate unaccompanied children from unrelated adults, except that “[w]here such segregation is not immediately possible, an unaccompanied juvenile will not be detained with an unrelated adult for more than 24 hours.”35
· Unaccompanied children should not be transported in the same vehicles as detained adults “except when being transported from the place of arrest or apprehension to a Service office or when separate transportation would be otherwise impractical, in which case juveniles shall be separated from adults.”36
· Children represented by counsel must not be transferred from one facility to another without advance notice to counsel “except in unusual and compelling circumstances such as where the safety of the juvenile or others is threatened, or the juvenile has been determined to be an escape risk, or where counsel has waived notice.” Under such circumstances the INS must give notice to counsel within twenty-four hours of transfer.37
https://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports98/ins2/berks98d-01.htm
· Upon apprehending an unaccompanied child who is not an “arriving alien,” the INS must provide the child with a written notice of rights. If the child is under fourteen, the INS must read and explain the form to the child in a language he or she understands.32
· An unaccompanied child who is apprehended in the immediate vicinity of the border and who resides permanently in Mexico or Canada must be “informed” of his or her right to call a parent, “close relative,” friend, or “an organization found on the current list of pro bono counsel”; after so advising the unaccompanied child, the INS may present him or her with a voluntary departure form. All other unaccompanied children must “be provided access to a telephone and must, in fact, communicate with a parent, adult relative, friend, or an organization found on the current list of pro bono counsel prior to presentation of the voluntary departure form.”33
· Following arrest, the INS will permit contact with family members who were arrested with the child.34
· The INS must separate unaccompanied children from unrelated adults, except that “[w]here such segregation is not immediately possible, an unaccompanied juvenile will not be detained with an unrelated adult for more than 24 hours.”35
· Unaccompanied children should not be transported in the same vehicles as detained adults “except when being transported from the place of arrest or apprehension to a Service office or when separate transportation would be otherwise impractical, in which case juveniles shall be separated from adults.”36
· Children represented by counsel must not be transferred from one facility to another without advance notice to counsel “except in unusual and compelling circumstances such as where the safety of the juvenile or others is threatened, or the juvenile has been determined to be an escape risk, or where counsel has waived notice.” Under such circumstances the INS must give notice to counsel within twenty-four hours of transfer.37
https://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports98/ins2/berks98d-01.htm
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
in your own words, which rights, specifically, are being denied to illegal border crossers?
be brief
for example: "access to counsel"
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
ok, show clearly how providing illegal children with those rights (that you claim are being unjustly denied them) will solve our problem of uncontrolled illegal "border crossers"
for example: "providing illegal children with legal counsel will help solve our problem of uncontrolled illegal "border crossers" by ....."
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If the policies which you want come into being then next year the problems at the border will double!
You evidently do not really understand why we need a wall.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If her ideas come into being then next year there will be twice as many people trying to enter the USA illegally than there are today!
Of course for those who want open borders her plans work perfectly for them.
Say it ain't so. But Donny promised. He had us chanting. You know at his pep rallies. C'mon, he is a successful business man, and a reality TV STAR. He wouldn't lie to us. Not Donny.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Uh, I would ask you how you've managed to work that one out but...nah.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I see nothing in any plan which the left wants that will alleviate the problems at the border. In fact, their plans will only make it worse!
Do you not even understand that if amnesty is given to all the illegal immigrants then if the border is not walled off then there will be a surge of people trying to enter the USA illegally? The left is unable to learn from the same mistake which happened in the past!
Kit the Coyote
New member
I see nothing in any plan which the pro-wall groups want that will alleviate the problems at the border. In fact, their plans will only make it worse!
The traffic across the border will still flow, the patterns will just change.
With over 95,000 miles of US coastline, all you need is a boat and Mexico has a lot of boats.
People trafficking, your main argument will still occur.
It doesn't stop other methods of entry like visa overstays which is actually worse than border crossings now.
When you put in realistic numbers for the cost of the wall and the supposed savings of illegals would likely
be stopped, the wall will NEVER pay for itself.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Sure! When the people in central America see that they won't be able just to turn themselves over to the custom agents they will stop coming. They will know it will be a long trip for nothing!
What's your solution?
An open border?
I've mostly stopped posting here. The pro-Trump censorship is simply beyond what can be accommodated. I can deal with rules, and I can deal with expressing ideas in a way that comports with certain standards, but I can't deal with being arbitrarily ejected from conversations for expressing views that don't violate any established standard. The reality is, Americans (and especially but not exclusively conservatives) are being deliberately driven to not just disagree, but to refuse to listen to dissenting opinions. I think this may explain the exodus of anti-Trump voices here. This is, of course, the rights of the forum's administrators, but as far as the forum health goes, it seems like it's going to quell discussion, which seems bad for a discussion forum. I will try to answer your question, but I can't commit to going deeply into it because I can't be sure that it will be allowed.
As far as what laws should apply on the border, I don't have simple solutions, and I'm not in favor of open borders, but what I will point out is that refugees have the right under US and international law to flee across borders to safety. It is illegal to punish them for doing so. It is illegal to deport them back to the dangers they fled. And they cannot be required to use a port of entry, or turned away at the port of entry, or forced to wait on the other side of the border for some indefinite period of time in the hopes that they'll just go away. Separating families for crossing to apply for asylum is a crime against humanity, and the officials who participate should be prosecuted. Telling refugees that they can have their children back if they sign voluntary removal orders is not legal, and is also a perverse violation of their rights. The rule of law, as it turns out, is actually on the side of the refugees predominantly. And there are many refugees in the world today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees
As for other types of immigrants, economic migrants, and people seeking family reunification, I think that such immigration is generally healthy and beneficial within reason, but it is subject to the political processes that establish laws, and they do not necessarily have a legal right to entry.
Kit the Coyote
New member
Cost effective approaches to border enforcement
A realistically evaluated guest worker program
Serious punishments for hiring illegal workers once the guest worker program is in place.
Improve E-Verify and possibly consider a national ID system.
Increase legal immigration and simplify the process to reduce the years-long waiting lists.
A Congress that is not afraid to realistically address immigration.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass