87 dead after crane collapses at Mecca

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Hall of Fame
You aren't bothered at all about the 87+ people who likely never heard God's word who now have to face Him in judgement?

So God will make the wrong choice. Truly I am telling all of you, if I say he is outside the faith, he is.

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
OK, if that is how you see it...

There's not really any other way of seeing it. I've never once said or alluded to people 'writing themselves off'. What exactly did you mean by that in relation to anything I've said?

I have no doubt that God intends to do just as he has spoken through the prophets, and His own Son which died so you would not have to. I really couldn't care less how you "suss" it.

Not sure how this has anything to do with what I wrote exactly, perhaps you can clarify? As to what God 'intends' then that's hardly a blanket criteria among the whole of Christendom. I rather suspect you're at odds with the Calvinist view for a start?

What you see as pride I account to assurance that God is who He said He is, and that I am just a sinner saved by faith alone in His Son who paid the price for my transgression so I would not have to. All have sinned the price is the same for all, it is the personal choice to receive God's free gift or reject it based on whatever convoluted reasoning you come up with, it does not change the choice or the consequence now does it?

It's not really me who sees any such as pride but rather yourself really. You reduce everything to a "choice" as if everyone is willingly choosing whatever particular version of 'hell' you ascribe to if they don't believe, and with full incontrovertible knowledge of just what awaits if they don't 'choose' to do the same as you.

Yes, I do believe that all men make a choice for God or against Him.

So every atheist/agnostic/those of other beliefs are all doing so with full knowledge that they're choosing not to believe that which they know?! There's no doubt whatsoever in your mind that plenty people simply have doubts amid the maelstrom of life so to speak?

Oh, so it is a matter of empathy...if I just pity the unbeliever enough it will magically change the cure. If a person rejects water because they are thirsty would my feeling bad for their condition make them drink? Talk about circular logic...

Pretty weak analogy as if you were honest there's few, if any people who were dying of thirst, who would refuse a glass of water. The comparison doesn't work.

Inherently yes, all humans are born aware that they are a created being, the person that never heard of the "Christian God" cannot be held accountable for rejecting Christ but, the person that has heard the message of the Gospel & rejects God & His Son is guilty of rejecting the truth.

So those who disagree or have doubts are all lying to themselves? There's only so long anyone can deny that they're thirsty even if they aren't desperate at that point for water.

Well what is cyanide to one is sugar to another, I hold no account for those that reject God of their own free will. God will force Himself on anyone, He is a gentleman that way, and I will not attempt to force the message because I am just a messenger not the author, people are free to seek out the truth on their own, God will always answer those that genuinely seek Him.

So God is a 'gentleman' and yet forces people into an eternity of "hell" if they don't find the same 'truth' as you in this speck of an existence? It's not really any wonder where the black and white callousness emanates from then, and certainly not just in regards to you either to be fair.