.
I fully agree with you " Clete " and I believe that you are misunderstanding what I am saying
i am sure that we both agree that the " Spirit " of the son of man " the same " Spirit Of Holy " that proceeded out from the Father was in heaven even while being here on earth at the same time because God is able to divide his Spirit and even multiply his Spirit and even - SEND HIS SPIRIT TO EARTH
- while also being in heaven at the same time. - to put it simply, God is omnipresent
God is neither omnipresent (in the classical sense of the term) nor was He merely a split off of the Holy Spirit or the Father.
I believe you are focusing upon on the specific detail dealing with the question pertaining to the eternal " pre existence " of the Son Of God.... did Jesus, the Son Of God exist in human form as the Son Of God before he was conceived by the Spirit of Holy, in Mary ... ?
is Jesus the Son of God - eternal sinful flesh - the same yesterday today and forever .... ?
No! Jesus was never in sinful flesh to begin with. He was tempted in all ways as we are yet without sin.
And of course He has always existed, He is our Creator, but He has not always existed in human form. God BECAME flesh and dwelt among us. He died and then rose from the dead with a new glorified human body, complete with scares received during His crucifixion. A physical human body that He will have from now on. So much for classical immutability!
did, Son of God / SON OF DAVID - exist in the likeness of sinful flesh before being born .... ?
He came in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh, not in actually sinful flesh!
The same passage, just a few verses later says that this same Jesus is at the right hand of the Father. In other words, He isn't the Father Himself nor some portion of the Father but He who John tells us is the Creator of all things sits at the Father's right hand.
Romans 8: 34 Who
is he who condemns?
It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us
i believe that the Scriptures clearly indicate that he did not pre exist
Saying it doesn't make it so!
I very simply DO NOT CARE what you believe. If you care to make some sort of argument, then I'll be happy to crush it to powder the same as I have all the other ridiculous claims you've made.
but that the Spirit of the Son existed from eternity in the Father from which is where he came out from. - the word made flesh
There is no such thing as "the Spirit of the Son", in the way you are using it here.
You are twisting Galatians 4:6 to say something that it doesn't say but that your denial of the Trinity requires.
There is a term for this practice. It's called eisegesis and you can use it to literally make up ANY DOCTRINE you desire to believe in. Want to believe that the Tooth-fairy is God incarnate and worship loose teeth? All you need is a variant of the very same tactics you use to deny the Trinity and to insist that only members of your church are saved.
This is a question about the Trinity that has been developed and discussed for almost 2000 years
How so?
Do you ever make any actual argument to support ANYTHING you claim to believe?
PLEASE NOTICE THE GLARING CONTRADICTION AND PROBLEM
Notice a contradiction where? You've made nothing but bald claims with no support whatsoever.
the Protestant Trinitarian Translation does not present a Jesus whom is FOREVER SETTING DOWN AT or ON THE RIGHT OF GOD. !
please notice - ..... Protestant K.J.V Heb 10:12
:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,,, sat down ON the right hand of God;
here - Jesus, according to the Protestant K.J.V Translation is not said to be forever sitting down ON the right hand of God;
it says, he had offered one sacrifice for sins FOREVER ,,, sat down ON the right hand of God,
Okay, I just hit my limit.
You will, from now on, write your posts with nothing but script in ONLY black type in the default font and size. Any post of yours that is presented otherwise will be ignored.
There is no such thing as "Protestant Trinitarian Translation". No such translation exists.
Want to debate the issue using the original languages? I'll crush you into powder in whatever language you choose.
The Protestant Translation demands that - Jesus is not forever sat on the right hand of God.
Jesus is the name we call the human being that the pre-existent Creator became.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jesus - Logos - God the Son - Same Person!
Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
If you notice, the difference between the - Protestant K.J.V and the Catholic D.R.B.
Couldn't care less.
.......................................................
Protestant K.
J.
V -
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,,,, sat down on the right hand of God;
Catholic D.
R.
B. -
Heb 10:12 But this man, offering one sacrifice for sins,,,,, for ever sitteth on the right hand of God,
....................................................................
Here is the difference
Catholic
D.
R.
B. - one sacrifice for sins,,,,, - - - for ever sitteth on the right hand
Protestant
K.
J.
V - offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,,,, - - - - sat down on the right hand
followed by
verse :13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING UNTILL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL.
So this is not forever sitting on the right hand of God in the Protestant Translation..............
in the Catholic D.R.B. - the sacrifice for sins is mentioned but they use a comma marking a punctuation to say that he
FOREVER sitteth on the right hand of God -
Protestants realizing this is a contradiction and error in the Catholic Translation decided to fix it by moving a punctuation mark
in the Protestant
K.
J.
V - the
sacrifice for sins is
FOREVER........ followed by a comma marking a punctuation........ to say that the one sacrifice for sins is
FOREVER, [ comma punctuation mark ] - ........................ then he sat down on the right hand
why do protestants translation remove Jesus forever sitting on the right hand of God ? ?
Mar 12:36 Sit ON my right hand,
UNTIL I make thy enemies thy footstool
.
Luk 20:42 Sit thou ON my right hand, -
UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Act 2:34 Sit thou ON my right hand,
UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool.
Heb 1:13 Sit ON my right hand,
UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool?
The Greek word
UNTIL is “
ἕως -
heōs -
heh'-oce “ - meaning =
A continuance until (of time and place): - (until, unto), (as) far (as), how long, - up to a while - a duration of a limited time.
In the Protestant Trinity TRANSLATION -
Jesus was not ON the right hand of God before Jesus is being commanded to be re- positioned, re - located, moved from one position of status and rank of authority progressing and changing his seating order
The Trinitarian Translation presents Jesus as being re - positioned, re - located and moving, changing the placement and status of his position from one existing position to be re located and placed and moved to another position and higher status - Jesus - was not sitting ON the right hand of God before God located him there ! !
Why are we to believe the Trinitarian teaching that God did not really mean when he said that he would be - ON the right hand of God - UNTLL I make thine enemies thy footstool
The Protestant Trinitarian version of Jesus is - EXPECTING UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL
- he will be seated ON the right hand of God
and is not forever sitting on the right hand of God -
also
Please remember – in John 8:42 - Jesus says three things here, about his identity.
i COME - “ εκ EX / OUT “ FROM THE GOD
i COME NOT FOR FROM / OF - MYSELF
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT
εγω I AM - γαρ FOR - εκ OUT / FROM - του THE - θεου GOD - εξηλθον CAME OUT - και AND - ηκω COME - ουδε NOT - γαρ FOR - απ FROM / OF - εμαυτου MYSELF - εληλυθα I COME - αλλ NEITHER - εκεινος MYSELF - με I - απεστειλεν SENT.
:42
i COME - “ εκ EX / OUT “ FROM THE GOD -–
i COME NOT ALSO FROM / OF - MYSELF –
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT –
If he is coming OUT OF / EXITING OUT from God and not come from or of himself
- how is he pre - existing in bodily form ? God does not have a body - he is an invisible spirit.
You are intentionally playing games with punctuation and ignoring context. A trick played by every cultist I know of. The Yahweh Ben Yahweh people are expert at this exact thing.
Hebrews 10:12 in both translations affirms the same thing, namely that Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins, and then He sat down at the right hand of God. The term “forever” modifies the
sacrifice, not His seating arrangement. That’s made obvious in the very next verse...
Hebrews 10:13 “From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool.”
So no, He’s not “forever sitting”, He’s sitting
until the Father makes His enemies His footstool, just as prophesied. You quoted that verse yourself and still missed it. Is it paradigm blindness, abject stupidity or purposeful deceive?
As for John 8:42, Jesus saying He “came out from God” and “was sent” doesn’t deny His pre-existence, it affirms it!. He’s claiming divine origin, not denying it. You're intentionally conflating pre-existence with pre-incarnation. The Son existed eternally with the Father (John 1:1) and then took on human flesh (John 1:14). That’s the incarnation, not modalism.
Your whole argument hinges on the intentional misreading verses and the convenient yanking English punctuation marks, and ignoring the actual grammar and flow of the text. Rather than appealing to original manuscripts, you’re twisting English to prop up a heretical system that isn't even consistent by its own standards, never mind able to stand up to honest scrutiny.
You've bought into a cult, IM! You are, at the very least a member of a cult, if not a leader in it.
Now, don't forget and don't think I'm bluffing. If you wish to interact with me, you will do it like a regular human being. If your posts have even one single character in anything other than the default font, at the default size and color, I will NOT even read it.
