Obviously multiple gospels

Three times Paul uses the phrase "my gospel".
Three times Paul uses the phrase "our gospel".

Both of those phrases make NO sense whatsoever if there is "only one gospel".

P.S. Even the many uses of "the gospel OF" make no sense if there is "only one gospel".

Right Divider said:

Three times Paul uses the phrase "my gospel".
Three times Paul uses the phrase "our gospel".

Both of those phrases make NO sense whatsoever if there is "only one gospel".

P.S. Even the many uses of "the gospel OF" make no sense if there is "only one gospel".

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Except that Paul also talks about "the gospel of God" 6 times, Peter 1 time.
Paul talks about "the gospel of Christ" 11 times, Peter zero times.

According to your system of accounting, that means that either Paul's gospel was not God's gospel (they are 2 different gospels), and God's gospel is not Christ's gospel, which seems patently ridiculous, or that God's gospel and Christ's gospel are the same, and the same as Paul's and Peter's.

There are two distinct Gospels. The Gospel of the Kingdom (circumcision) and the Gospel of Grace (uncircumcision).

Galatians 2:7-8

7. But contrariwise, when they saw the Gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the Gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter
8. (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision the was mighty to me toward the gentiles

Bright Raven said:

There are two distinct Gospels. The Gospel of the Kingdom (circumcision) and the Gospel of Grace (uncircumcision).

Galatians 2:7-8

7. But contrariwise, when they saw the Gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the Gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter
8. (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision the was mighty to me toward the gentiles

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There are more... but those are definitely two of them.

Bright Raven said:

There are two distinct Gospels. The Gospel of the Kingdom (circumcision) and the Gospel of Grace (uncircumcision).

Galatians 2:7-8

7. But contrariwise, when they saw the Gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the Gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter
8. (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision the was mighty to me toward the gentiles

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But that passage, as has been pointed out before, doesn't talk of 2 different gospels, but two different people groups. Note that the second use of the word "gospel" is added by the translators for better readability. You can tell this is the case because of the use of italics in printed versions (probably in most online versions as well). Note also that it is still readable without the 2nd use:
Galatians 2:7 KJV — But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Here's the same verse without the italicized/added words:

Galatians 2:7 KJV — But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as of the circumcision unto Peter;

That makes it pretty clear, imo, that it was one gospel, two people groups. But in case you missed it there, Paul follows with a parenthetical (see your post, beginning of vs 8) to explain, that it was the apostleship of the two groups that was so divided, not the gospel:
Galatians 2:8 KJV — (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

But in case that wasn't yet clear enough, Paul reiterates in the following verse (which you didn't quote), which, once the parenthetical was closed, is the concluding point of verse 7.
Galatians 2:9 KJV — And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

"That we should go" is a phrase that comes from the idea of apostle, which means "the sent one".

To wrap up, Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (uncircumcision), and Peter and the rest were apostles to the Jews (circumcision)--with the same gospel, that Jesus died and rose again, defeating death.

Derf said:

To wrap up, Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (uncircumcision), and Peter and the rest were apostles to the Jews (circumcision)--with the same gospel, that Jesus died and rose again, defeating death.

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The twelve were not preaching the gospel of the grace of God.
They were preaching the gospel of the kingdom.
They were preaching THAT gospel while they did not even know that Christ would die.

"Same gospel"

Right Divider said:

The twelve were not preaching the gospel of the grace of God.
They were preaching the gospel of the kingdom.
They were preaching THAT gospel while they did not even know that Christ would die.

"Same gospel"

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If they were preaching that Christ died and rose again, then they were preaching the gospel of the grace of God AND the gospel of the kingdom. The kingdom gospel required the death burial and resurrection of Christ, though it could be preached in a limited form prior to the DBR.

Derf said:

If they were preaching that Christ died and rose again,

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When they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom.... they did NOT know that Christ would die!

Derf said:

then they were preaching the gospel of the grace of God AND the gospel of the kingdom.

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Derf said:

The kingdom gospel required the death burial and resurrection of Christ, though it could be preached in a limited form prior to the DBR.

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THEY did not know that. Therefore, they gospel of the kingdom is NOT the same as the gospel of the grace of God.

Right Divider said:

When they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom.... they did NOT know that Christ would die!

Luke 9:6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(9:6) And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.​

​

Luke 18:31-34 (AKJV/PCE)​

(18:31) ¶ Then he took [unto him] the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (18:32) For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: (18:33) And they shall scourge [him], and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. (18:34) And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken. ​

THEY did not know that. Therefore, they gospel of the kingdom is NOT the same as the gospel of the grace of God.

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But Peter did know about the grace of God in Acts:
[Act 15:11 KJV] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Peter was talking about the gospel he had preached to Cornelius:
[Act 15:9 KJV] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Peter did not understand the nature of God's offer to the Gentiles, so he had to be shown, through the same gifts of the Holy Spirit he and others had experienced at Pentecost, that they were able to be saved by the same gospel he and the Jews would be saved by. Thus he learned that the gospel was available to both Jews and Gentiles, AND he learned that it wasn't their adherence to the acts of the law that saved the Jews any more than it was that saved the Gentiles.

But the gospel still can save, even if it isn't fully understood by those being saved, as long as they come by faith:
[Heb 4:2 KJV] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
[Heb 4:10 KJV] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.
[Heb 4:16 KJV] Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Derf said:

But Peter did know about the grace of God in Acts:

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That is YEARS later... MANY years later... After Paul explained it to him.

Derf said:

But the gospel still can save, even if it isn't fully understood by those being saved, as long as they come by faith:
[Heb 4:2 KJV] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
[Heb 4:10 KJV] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.
[Heb 4:16 KJV] Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

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You and SO many others are dictionary theologians.

There are MANY gospels in the scripture. That you try to circumvent God and force them to all be the same is sad.

Right Divider said:

That is YEARS later... MANY years later... After Paul explained it to him.

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You mean that was when Peter recognized that both Jews and Gentiles could avail themselves of the grace of God? Sure. So now you're saying the same thing as I am, that Peter wasn't fully understanding the scope of the grace of God, until Paul shared with him what the Lord Jesus taught him personally? Then why are you arguing against what I'm saying?

Right Divider said:

You and SO many others are dictionary theologians.

There are MANY gospels in the scripture. That you try to circumvent God and force them to all be the same is sad.

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There might be "MANY gospels in the scripture", but that doesn't mean Peter and Paul were preaching a different one. You've already admitted above that Peter learned more of what the gospel was about from Paul.

How am I circumventing God by forcing Peter's and Paul's to be the same one? Please don't skip over this question, because I really would like to know. Assuming you are right for the moment, how do I circumvent God by claiming the two gospels are the same????????????

Derf said:

You mean that was when Peter recognized that both Jews and Gentiles could avail themselves of the grace of God? Sure. So now you're saying the same thing as I am, that Peter wasn't fully understanding the scope of the grace of God, until Paul shared with him what the Lord Jesus taught him personally? Then why are you arguing against what I'm saying?

There might be "MANY gospels in the scripture", but that doesn't mean Peter and Paul were preaching a different one. You've already admitted above that Peter learned more of what the gospel was about from Paul.

How am I circumventing God by forcing Peter's and Paul's to be the same one? Please don't skip over this question, because I really would like to know. Assuming you are right for the moment, how do I circumvent God by claiming the two gospels are the same????????????

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All I can do is pity you. But I certainly am amazed at your stubbornness.

Gospel simply means "good news". It is utter foolishness to believe that there in only one "good news" in all of scripture. Particularly when God goes to great lengths to show the GOSPEL OF <many different things>. The GOOD NEWS OF <this, that, the other thing>.

Believe whatever you like. I've already wasted enough time with you.

Right Divider said:

All I can do is pity you. But I certainly am amazed at your stubbornness.

Gospel simply means "good news". It is utter foolishness to believe that there in only one "good news" in all of scripture. Particularly when God goes to great lengths to show the GOSPEL OF <many different things>. The GOOD NEWS OF <this, that, the other thing>.

Believe whatever you like. I've already wasted enough time with you.

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I didn't address you in the first place, so why did you "waste time with" me at all? Isn't it because your doctrine is weak and you feel threatened when I challenge it?

Derf said:

But that passage, as has been pointed out before, doesn't talk of 2 different gospels, but two different people groups. Note that the second use of the word "gospel" is added by the translators for better readability. You can tell this is the case because of the use of italics in printed versions (probably in most online versions as well). Note also that it is still readable without the 2nd use:
Galatians 2:7 KJV — But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Here's the same verse without the italicized/added words:

Galatians 2:7 KJV — But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as of the circumcision unto Peter;

That makes it pretty clear, imo, that it was one gospel, two people groups. But in case you missed it there, Paul follows with a parenthetical (see your post, beginning of vs 8) to explain, that it was the apostleship of the two groups that was so divided, not the gospel:
Galatians 2:8 KJV — (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

But in case that wasn't yet clear enough, Paul reiterates in the following verse (which you didn't quote), which, once the parenthetical was closed, is the concluding point of verse 7.
Galatians 2:9 KJV — And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

"That we should go" is a phrase that comes from the idea of apostle, which means "the sent one".

To wrap up, Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (uncircumcision), and Peter and the rest were apostles to the Jews (circumcision)--with the same gospel, that Jesus died and rose again, defeating death.

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Please deal with what scripture says. The Gospel of the Kingdom was given to the circumcision and the Gospel of Grace was given to the uncircumcision. Which one is the Gospel given to two different people groups and which is the only true Gospel since one must obviously false if your statements are to be taken as truth?

Derf said:

If they were preaching that Christ died and rose again, then they were preaching the gospel of the grace of God AND the gospel of the kingdom. The kingdom gospel required the death burial and resurrection of Christ

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The kingdom gospel required repentance And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Obviously Paul preached the kingdom gospel at Athens And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Derf said:

, though it could be preached in a limited form prior to the DBR.

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Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Obviously this is Paul's gospel.

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Idolater said:

The kingdom gospel required repentance And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

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• The word "repentance" by itself is meaningless. Something must be repented of.
• The gospel of the kingdom IS the kingdom at hand.

Idolater said:

Obviously Paul preached the kingdom gospel at Athens

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Saying it doesn't make it so. Paul never preached the gospel of the kingdom to anyone.

When Paul preached "the kingdom of God", he was preaching about a more abstract kingdom than the one related to the gospel of the kingdom.

The gospel of the kingdom was about the restoration of the nation of Israel and their kingdom on the earth.


After teaching the twelve (minus one until a little later) about the kingdom of God, they asked the obvious question:

They were not stupid. They understood exactly that Jesus was talking about.

In that kingdom:

It's very easy to understand for those that simply let the Bible speak for itself.

Bright Raven said:

Please deal with what scripture says.

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I am.

Bright Raven said:

The Gospel of the Kingdom was given to the circumcision and the Gospel of Grace was given to the uncircumcision.

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I don't see that in scripture anywhere. That is something you read here on TOL. Please don't confuse TOL posts with scripture.

Bright Raven said:

Which one is the Gospel given to two different people groups and which is the only true Gospel since one must obviously false if your statements are to be taken as truth?

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Your premise being wrong leads you to wrong conclusions. The Gospel given to the Jews was that the kingdom of heaven was near. That kingdom requires God to be on the throne, and it resolves sin and death. That happened with the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension, and will be complete with Jesus' return (maybe with the final judgment), but we have been given an earnest of the Holy Spirit to reign in us for now. The same gospel applies to both groups and it is about the kingdom:
Acts 28:27-31 KJV — For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Paul was teaching the kingdom of God to ALL (Jews and Gentiles) who came to see him. The Kingdom of God was NOT just for Jews. The Gospel of Grace was NOT just for Gentiles. That means that the godpel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace were the same gospel, meant for both parties. And THAT's why the Jews were so upset (and jealous) because the Gentiles were allowed into the Kingdom, without doing all of the Jewish law.

Derf said:

I am.

I don't see that in scripture anywhere. That is something you read here on TOL. Please don't confuse TOL posts with scripture.

Your premise being wrong leads you to wrong conclusions. The Gospel given to the Jews was that the kingdom of heaven was near. That kingdom requires God to be on the throne, and it resolves sin and death. That happened with the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension, and will be complete with Jesus' return (maybe with the final judgment), but we have been given an earnest of the Holy Spirit to reign in us for now. The same gospel applies to both groups and it is about the kingdom:
Acts 28:27-31 KJV — For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Paul was teaching the kingdom of God to ALL (Jews and Gentiles) who came to see him. The Kingdom of God was NOT just for Jews. The Gospel of Grace was NOT just for Gentiles. That means that the godpel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace were the same gospel, meant for both parties. And THAT's why the Jews were so upset (and jealous) because the Gentiles were allowed into the Kingdom, without doing all of the Jewish law.

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The gospel to the Jews was:
Acts 2:38

The gospel to the Gentiles was and is :
1 Corinthians 15:1-4

from Gotquestions.org

The true gospel is the good news that God saves sinners. Man is by nature sinful and separated from God with no hope of remedying that situation. But God, by His power, provided the means of man’s redemption in the death, burial and resurrection of the Savior, Jesus Christ.

The word “gospel” literally means “good news.” But to truly comprehend how good this news is, we must first understand the bad news. As a result of the fall of man in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:6), every part of man—his mind, will, emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. Because of man’s sinful nature, he does not and cannot seek God. He has no desire to come to God and, in fact, his mind is hostile toward God (Romans 8:7). God has declared that man’s sin dooms him to an eternity in hell, separated from God. It is in hell that man pays the penalty of sin against a holy and righteous God. This would be bad news indeed if there were no remedy.

But in the gospel, God, in His mercy, has provided that remedy, a substitute for us—Jesus Christ—who came to pay the penalty for our sin by His sacrifice on the cross. This is the essence of the gospel which Paul preached to the Corinthians. In 1 Corinthians 15:2-4, he explains the three elements of the gospel—the death, burial and resurrection of Christ on our behalf. Our old nature died with Christ on the cross and was buried with Him. Then we were resurrected with Him to a new life (Romans 6:4-8). Paul tells us to “hold firmly” to this true gospel, the only one which saves. Believing in any other gospel is to believe in vain. In Romans 1:16-17, Paul also declares that the true gospel is the “power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes” by which he means that salvation is not achieved by man’s efforts, but by the grace of God through the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Because of the gospel, through the power of God, those who believe in Christ (Romans 10:9) are not just saved from hell. We are, in fact, given a completely new nature (2 Corinthians 5:17) with a changed heart and a new desire, will, and attitude that are manifested in good works. This is the fruit the Holy Spirit produces in us by His power. Works are never the means of salvation, but they are the proof of it (Ephesians 2:10). Those who are saved by the power of God will always show the evidence of salvation by a changed life.

Bright Raven said:

The gospel to the Jews was:
Acts 2:38

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[Act 2:38 KJV] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[Act 2:39 KJV] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

This was not just for Jews, but it includes "all that are afar off". Paul explains that Gentiles were the "afar off" ones and the Jews were the near ones ("nigh"):
[Eph 2:17 KJV] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

God reconciled them both (Jews and Gentiles) into one body:
[Eph 2:16 KJV] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Whereas before Christ there was a wall between them:
[Eph 2:14 KJV] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];

Bright Raven said:

The gospel to the Gentiles was and is :
1 Corinthians 15:1-4

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[1Co 15:3 KJV] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[1Co 15:4 KJV] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Which is no different than the gospel that was preached to the Jews at Pentecost, though the focus of the words might be different. Jesus' death is what gives us remission from sins, period. There is no other way to be saved.

Bright Raven said:

from Gotquestions.org

The true gospel is the good news that God saves sinners.

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Jewish and Gentile sinners!

Bright Raven said:

Man is by nature sinful and separated from God with no hope of remedying that situation. But God, by His power, provided the means of man’s redemption in the death, burial and resurrection of the Savior, Jesus Christ.

The word “gospel” literally means “good news.” But to truly comprehend how good this news is, we must first understand the bad news. As a result of the fall of man in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:6), every part of man—his mind, will, emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. Because of man’s sinful nature, he does not and cannot seek God. He has no desire to come to God and, in fact, his mind is hostile toward God (Romans 8:7). God has declared that man’s sin dooms him to an eternity in hell, separated from God. It is in hell that man pays the penalty of sin against a holy and righteous God. This would be bad news indeed if there were no remedy.

But in the gospel, God, in His mercy, has provided that remedy, a substitute for us—Jesus Christ—who came to pay the penalty for our sin by His sacrifice on the cross. This is the essence of the gospel which Paul preached to the Corinthians. In 1 Corinthians 15:2-4, he explains the three elements of the gospel—the death, burial and resurrection of Christ on our behalf. Our old nature died with Christ on the cross and was buried with Him. Then we were resurrected with Him to a new life (Romans 6:4-8). Paul tells us to “hold firmly” to this true gospel, the only one which saves. Believing in any other gospel is to believe in vain. In Romans 1:16-17, Paul also declares that the true gospel is the “power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes”

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Jews and Gentiles

Bright Raven said:

by which he means that salvation is not achieved by man’s efforts, but by the grace of God through the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).

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For both Jews and Gentiles

Bright Raven said:

Because of the gospel, through the power of God, those who believe in Christ (Romans 10:9) are not just saved from hell. We are, in fact, given a completely new nature (2 Corinthians 5:17) with a changed heart and a new desire, will, and attitude that are manifested in good works. This is the fruit the Holy Spirit produces in us by His power. Works are never the means of salvation, but they are the proof of it (Ephesians 2:10). Those who are saved by the power of God will always show the evidence of salvation by a changed life.

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I agree with that, but nowhere does what you wrote distinguish between 2 different gospels. All of that applies to both Jews and Gentiles. Paul condemns any other gospel, as I think you know. Therefore the gospel of the kingdom, if it is a true gospel (and MAD's claim it was still applicable in Paul's time), MUST be the same gospel as Paul's. If Paul's gospel and the gospel of the kingdom are the same gospel (in order for one of them not to be false), then Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom, which is the evidence I gave you from Acts 28. He might never have called it "the gospel of the kingdom", but that's ok, since the words "gospel of the kingdom" don't appear in any other non-pauline epistle either, even though "gospel" does appear. So there's no evidence, if the gospel of the kingdom is not the same gospel as Paul's, that it continued to be preached after Jesus died. The words are not used that way.