Jesus is God

[7djengo7]

Is the Christian Church “one flock” or is it a myriad of competing sects, cults, and denominations?

To what (if anything) are you referring by your phrase, "the Christian Church"? We, of course, do not find your phrase, "the Christian Church", in the Bible, and so, it's incumbent upon you to tell us what (if anything) you imagine you mean by it. And remember: nobody owes you the assumption that you mean something by it just because you write it.

Oh, and, like I said, there's not even one instance of your phrase, "the Christian Church", in the Bible, so we cannot learn, from the Bible, what (if anything) you imagine you mean by it. But, guess what phrases we do, actually find, in the Bible:

• "the churches"
• "all the churches of the Gentiles"
• "the churches of Christ"
• "in all churches"
• "the churches of God"
• "in all churches of the saints"
• "the churches of Galatia"
• "the churches of Asia"
• "throughout all the churches"
• "the churches of Judaea"
• "the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ"
• "the seven churches which are in Asia"

 

[7djengo7]

John 12:32 (New American Standard Bible)
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

A billion Muslims testify that this did not happen.

When you say that Jesus was not "lifted up from the earth", and that Jesus did not "draw all men" to Himself, what (if anything) do you mean by this? Of course, we need not assume you mean anything by what you say, just because you say something. Please try to explain--if you wish to try to have a conversation with us.

Mark 10:29-30 (New American Standard Bible)
Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake, but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

“in the present age” Houses? Farms? Is this true?

Is what true? Please try to specify exactly what (if any) proposition you're asking about--what (if anything) is the antecedent of your pronoun, "this"?

John 14:12 (New American Standard Bible)
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

Can you walk on water, feed 5,000 with couple of fish and loaves, and raise the dead?

I, for one, do not know that I can walk on water, feed 5,000 with a couple of fish and loaves, or raise the dead. I've never done any of these things, at least. But, what (if anything) do you imagine is your point? Where in the Bible, exactly, do you imagine you find Jesus telling people that they will

• walk on water?
• feed 5,000 with a couple of fish and loaves?
• raise the dead?

Where, in the Bible, do you imagine you've a warrant for your claim that either, or both, of Jesus' two phrases, in the verse you quoted--"the works that I do" and "greater works than these"--has reference to any of the things you've just listed?

John 14:13-14 (New American Standard Bible)
"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

Really?

What really? Again, what (if anything) do you imagine is your gripe? If you really think you have found something to complain against, by all means, try to spell it out. You're not just here to beg for attention, right?

Ask God to make you cease and desist from being the foolish, juvenile-delinquent cluck that you have, on TOL, manifested yourself to be.

 

[Lilstu]

Jesus had an interesting conversation with a Scribe which is relevant to this thread.

Mark 12:28-34 (New American Standard Bible)
28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"
29Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
32The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM;
33AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions.

The question that you have to ask is.....What was the Scribe's understanding of the nature of God? I think that it is obvious that the Scribe believed ""HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM; ""[Deut 4:35]

Jesus concurs with the Scribe's assessment when he ""saw that he had answered intelligently"" and Jesus said...."You are not far from the kingdom of God."
So how is it possible that some believe God is a Trinity?

 

[Bright Raven]

Jesus had an interesting conversation with a Scribe which is relevant to this thread.

Mark 12:28-34 (New American Standard Bible)
28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"
29Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
32The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM;
33AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions.

The question that you have to ask is.....What was the Scribe's understanding of the nature of God? I think that it is obvious that the Scribe believed ""HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM; ""[Deut 4:35]

Jesus concurs with the Scribe's assessment when he ""saw that he had answered intelligently"" and Jesus said...."You are not far from the kingdom of God."
So how is it possible that some believe God is a Trinity?

Where does Jesus ever say He is not God? Don't bother looking because it isn't there.

 

[Lilstu]

Why Didn’t Jesus Do Something?

If Jesus is God, as many Christians believe that he is, why didn’t he look into the future when he was on earth, and take action to fix the problems that arose because of Christianity, and his followers, after he went to Heaven.

For example, Jesus’ followers argued about the nature of God. Some said God was a unity, some said God was a Trinity, they argued and they killed each other. But the problem is that the Bible is ambiguous about the nature of God. Jesus could have foreseen this deadly dispute and had the Bible writers explain the nature of God in absolutely clear certain terms.

Jesus could have foreseen the Catholic Protestant disputes, with its wars and millions dying and had the Bible written so the Catholic Protestant differences would not have come about. But Jesus did nothing.

What about the murdering of Jews, Heretics, and Homosexuals? Slavery? Suppression of Science? Book burning? Jesus could have had the Bible written to preclude his followers from taking slaves and murdering in his name. But Jesus did nothing.

What about Atheists, who require proof in order to believe? Why didn’t Jesus provide indisputable proof?

Billions of people believe that Jesus is God and that he loves mankind.
But when he could have acted to benefit man he failed.

 

[Bright Raven]

Why Didn’t Jesus Do Something?

If Jesus is God, as many Christians believe that he is, why didn’t he look into the future when he was on earth, and take action to fix the problems that arose because of Christianity, and his followers, after he went to Heaven.

For example, Jesus’ followers argued about the nature of God. Some said God was a unity, some said God was a Trinity, they argued and they killed each other. But the problem is that the Bible is ambiguous about the nature of God. Jesus could have foreseen this deadly dispute and had the Bible writers explain the nature of God in absolutely clear certain terms.

Jesus could have foreseen the Catholic Protestant disputes, with its wars and millions dying and had the Bible written so the Catholic Protestant differences would not have come about. But Jesus did nothing.

What about the murdering of Jews, Heretics, and Homosexuals? Slavery? Suppression of Science? Book burning? Jesus could have had the Bible written to preclude his followers from taking slaves and murdering in his name. But Jesus did nothing.

What about Atheists, who require proof in order to believe? Why didn’t Jesus provide indisputable proof?

Billions of people believe that Jesus is God and that he loves mankind.
But when he could have acted to benefit man he failed.

You are a Christian only if you believe Jesus is God and He has provided indisputable proof of who He is. It is contained in His word. If someone wants to find him, he has provided the way to that end.

 

[Lilstu]

You are a Christian only if you believe Jesus is God and He has provided indisputable proof of who He is. It is contained in His word. If someone wants to find him, he has provided the way to that end. Written by Bright Raven

What is your best proof from the Bible for your assertion? Please don't bombard me with tonnes of stuff from your church literature...let's start with your best proof...

 

[Bright Raven]

You are a Christian only if you believe Jesus is God and He has provided indisputable proof of who He is. It is contained in His word. If someone wants to find him, he has provided the way to that end. Written by Bright Raven

What is your best proof from the Bible for your assertion? Please don't bombard me with tonnes of stuff from your church literature...let's start with your best proof...

John 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 King James Version (KJV) 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Colossians 1:15-19 King James Version (KJV) 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

 

[Right Divider]

Are you waiting for Jesus to return?

Jesus promised that he would return.
Many people have high hopes that Jesus will return because he promised.

But to understand Jesus' promise to return we have to evaluate his promise based on our understanding of other promises that Jesus made.

John 10:16 (New American Standard Bible)
"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

Is the Christian Church “one flock” or is it a myriad of competing sects, cults, and denominations?

John 12:32 (New American Standard Bible)
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

A billion Muslims testify that this did not happen.

:french:

When God the Son makes a promise.... He keeps it.

Since I can see that you're a zealot that is not going to listen, I will put you on my ignore list.

 

[God's Truth]

Why Didn’t Jesus Do Something?

If Jesus is God, as many Christians believe that he is, why didn’t he look into the future when he was on earth, and take action to fix the problems that arose because of Christianity, and his followers, after he went to Heaven.

For example, Jesus’ followers argued about the nature of God. Some said God was a unity, some said God was a Trinity, they argued and they killed each other. But the problem is that the Bible is ambiguous about the nature of God. Jesus could have foreseen this deadly dispute and had the Bible writers explain the nature of God in absolutely clear certain terms.

Jesus could have foreseen the Catholic Protestant disputes, with its wars and millions dying and had the Bible written so the Catholic Protestant differences would not have come about. But Jesus did nothing.

What about the murdering of Jews, Heretics, and Homosexuals? Slavery? Suppression of Science? Book burning? Jesus could have had the Bible written to preclude his followers from taking slaves and murdering in his name. But Jesus did nothing.

What about Atheists, who require proof in order to believe? Why didn’t Jesus provide indisputable proof?

Billions of people believe that Jesus is God and that he loves mankind.
But when he could have acted to benefit man he failed.

The Bible says that Satan entraps people to preach false doctrines.

If you follow what God says very carefully, then you won't believe and teach wrong.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus had an interesting conversation with a Scribe which is relevant to this thread.

Mark 12:28-34 (New American Standard Bible)
28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"
29Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
32The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM;
33AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions.

The question that you have to ask is.....What was the Scribe's understanding of the nature of God? I think that it is obvious that the Scribe believed ""HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM; ""[Deut 4:35]

Jesus concurs with the Scribe's assessment when he ""saw that he had answered intelligently"" and Jesus said...."You are not far from the kingdom of God."
So how is it possible that some believe God is a Trinity?

I do not believe in the trinity doctrine, but I know that Jesus is God. There is no one besides God because Jesus is God.

 

[Lilstu]

John 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 King James Version (KJV) 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Colossians 1:15-19 King James Version (KJV) 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

William Tyndale's translation
Chapter 1
1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God.
2 The same was in the beginnynge with God.
3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.
4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men
5 and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not.

There is only one place in the Bible where Jesus is called "the Word." .....this may have even been a later edit.
The prologue in John's Gospel is attempting to parallel the word of God just as in Genesis God spoke the creation into existence. Notice the translation refers to the word as an "it" an inanimate object...the spoken word of God....not Jesus.

Even if we believe in the accuracy of John's gospel we can't use this as a proof text.

 

[Bright Raven]

William Tyndale's translation
Chapter 1
1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God.
2 The same was in the beginnynge with God.
3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.
4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men
5 and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not.

There is only one place in the Bible where Jesus is called "the Word." .....this may have even been a later edit.
The prologue in John's Gospel is attempting to parallel the word of God just as in Genesis God spoke the creation into existence. Notice the translation refers to the word as an "it" an inanimate object...the spoken word of God....not Jesus.

Even if we believe in the accuracy of John's gospel we can't use this as a proof text.

Not so, The Word is a person otherwise The Word would be called an it. Who says it can't be used as a proof text? You. Sorry, you loose. Colossians 1:15-19 reinforces the text of John's Gospel.

 

[Lilstu]

Where does Jesus ever say He is not God? Don't bother looking because it isn't there.

Where did Jesus ever say he is God?

 

[Lilstu]

Not so, The Word is a person otherwise The Word would be called an it. Who says it can't be used as a proof text? You. Sorry, you loose. Colossians 1:15-19 reinforces the text of John's Gospel.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Man is in the image of God....but not God.
Firstborn is a created person.

 

[Bright Raven]

Where did Jesus ever say he is God?

[h=1]John 4:25-26 King James Version (KJV)[/h]
²⁵ The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

²⁶ Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

 

[Bright Raven]

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Man is in the image of God....but not God.
Firstborn is a created person.

The verse speaks of his position not his person.

 

[Bright Raven]

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Man is in the image of God....but not God.
Firstborn is a created person.

Some who deny that Jesus is God make the claim that Jesus never said that He is God. It is correct that the Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” This does not mean, however, that Jesus never claimed to be God.

Is Jesus God? — Jesus claimed to be God.

Take for example the words of Jesus in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33, emphasis added). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” This is a reference back to Exodus 3:14 when God revealed Himself as the “I AM.” The Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

Is Jesus God? — His followers declared Him to be God.

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God.

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as God, indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. Beyond these, there are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus being God.

Is Jesus God? — The reason Jesus must be God.

The most important reason that Jesus must be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

Is Jesus God? Yes. Jesus declared Himself to be God. His followers believed Him to be God. The provision of salvation only works if Jesus is God. Jesus is God incarnate, the eternal Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8; 22:13), and God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1).
From Gotquestions.org

 

[God's Truth]

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Man is in the image of God....but not God.
Firstborn is a created person.

God the Father made Himself a body. Jesus is God with a body.

 

[God's Truth]

Where did Jesus ever say he is God?

When he said he was I am.