When did the gospel go to the Gentiles?

Gary K

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Banned
We only call you liars when you lie. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

You have claimed, many times, that we call you a liar because you disagree with us.
That is a LIE and you REPEAT that LIE over and over again.

The Lord calls us to judge justly. Therefore, we call a lie a lie.

No.

You are so thin skinned. Perhaps you should stop being such a small child.

Because you are. I informed someone that you are a Seventh Day Adventist and you falsely claimed that I was being "hateful" and that I was "despising a fellow Christian". I simply passed on information that YOU had provided.

Sure you are.

If I was lying... I might have to stop.

All fully justified.

You are Mr. Righteousness. We do not deserve your glorious presence here on TOL.

Again, you lie. You should repent and start telling the truth.

Again, you lie. You should repent and start telling the truth.
Paul disagrees with your behavior.

Galatians 6: 1 BRETHREN, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
2 Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

That's a Jewish Pharisee speaking to Gentiles and telling them to correct others in a spirit of meekness, considering they themselves might be tempted. All three of you really follow follow Paul's advice. Unless you think calling people liars is meekness.
 

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Paul disagrees with your behavior.

Galatians 6: 1 BRETHREN, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
2 Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

That's a Jewish Pharisee speaking to Gentiles and telling them to correct others in a spirit of meekness, considering they themselves might be tempted. All three of you really follow follow Paul's advice. Unless you think calling people liars is meekness.
So you are NOT going to repent of your REPEATED lies about us.... got it.

There is nothing "unmeek" about our approach. You just don't like being called out for your lies. That's how a small child acts. Why don't you act more like an adult?
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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If you actually read the scripture posted, they have to follow the law just for the rain.
 
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Getting back to the OP. Philip did NOT know the gospel of the grace of God, as it had NOT YET been revealed in the Acts 8 time-frame. It was not revealed until God revealed it to Paul no earlier than Acts 9.

As I've shown many times (from the scripture), the twelve were preaching the gospel of the kingdom for YEARS (at least TWO) and they did not even know that Christ would die.

The gospel of the grace of God CANNOT be preached without the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. THEREFORE, they CANNOT be the same gospel.

The word "gospel" has become a mythological word in modern Churchianity. It simply means "good news" and there are many types of "good news" in the Bible.
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
We only call you liars when you lie. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

You have claimed, many times, that we call you a liar because you disagree with us.
That is a LIE and you REPEAT that LIE over and over again.

The Lord calls us to judge justly. Therefore, we call a lie a lie.

No.

You are so thin skinned. Perhaps you should stop being such a small child.

Because you are. I informed someone that you are a Seventh Day Adventist and you falsely claimed that I was being "hateful" and that I was "despising a fellow Christian". I simply passed on information that YOU had provided.

Sure you are.

If I was lying... I might have to stop.

All fully justified.

You are Mr. Righteousness. We do not deserve your glorious presence here on TOL.

Again, you lie. You should repent and start telling the truth.

Again, you lie. You should repent and start telling the truth.
Paul disagrees with your behavior.

Galatians 6: 1 BRETHREN, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering
Getting back to the OP. Philip did NOT know the gospel of the grace of God, as it had NOT YET been revealed in the Acts 8 time-frame. It was not revealed until God revealed it to Paul no earlier than Acts 9.

As I've shown many times (from the scripture), the twelve were preaching the gospel of the kingdom for YEARS (at least TWO) and they did not even know that Christ would die.

The gospel of the grace of God CANNOT be preached without the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. THEREFORE, they CANNOT be the same gospel.

The word "gospel" has become a mythological word in modern Churchianity. It simply means "good news" and there are many types of "good news" in the Bible.
Actually they didn't understand the gospel was to go to the world for the entire world for all 3.5 years of Jesus. ministry. They didn't even understand the purpose of His ministry. They thought He was supposed to start a world wide kingdom here on earth. They were very selfish men until they were truly converted.

Matthew 18: 1 AT the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 20: 17 ¶ And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
20 ¶ Then came to him the mother of Zebedee’s children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.
21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

This is near the close of Jesus ministry. Do you really think Jams and John understood what Jesus meant when He told them He was going to be crucified and they answered that they were able to drink the same cup He was going to drink?

All twelve disciples were victims of Pharisaical brainwashing.

Here is a quote from a Jew who became a Christian around the turn of the 20th century. He wrote several books and most were on the subject of the Jews and Christianity. He was born on the day of Atonement so his parents thought he had a good chance of being the promised Messiah so they educated him to be a rabbi.

Here is a quote from one of his books.

TEACHINGS OF RABBIS PLACED ABOVE GOD’S WORD

15. They were putting themselves in the place of God to the people; their sayings were placed
upon equality with God’s teachings. Hence we read that the written law was like water; but the oral law,
Mishna, was like wine: the Gemara, like spiced wine. Some went as far as to say that the words of the
scribes are lovely above the words of the law (meaning the written law), for the words of the written law
are weighty and light; but the words of the scribes are all weighty. One, Rabbi Judah, son of Tamai, said:
“A child at five years should study the Bible, at ten the Mishna, at fifteen the Gernara.”
From this last statement it can be seen that three times as much value is placed upon the words of
men as upon the words of God. The person as he comes to years of maturity should regard the words of the
Scripture only one-third as much as he does the words of the rabbis. Yes, they go so far as to say:
“Yea, though they should tell thee that thy right hand is the left, and the left hand that it is the
right, it must be believed.”
It is not surprising, then, that the Savior condemned those teachers for making void the word of
God by their tradition. By their multiplicity of maxims they enslaved the man; they put the word of God
aside, in order that their words might be highly esteemed.

CONTEMPORARY LEADERS

16. There were times when there were several leaders, and frequently they would disagree as to
their ideas of the Scriptures, or Scriptural exposition. Which is right was often the question, as the people
were only to understand the law interpreted and expounded by these men. The common people were never
supposed to understand the Scriptures themselves; this is why, no doubt, we find the following statement:
“But this people who knows not the law are cursed.” “They answered and said unto him, thou was
altogether born in sins, and does thou teach us? And they cast him out.” [15]
17. It was only the wise and educated who were expected to know the Scriptures; whatever these
men said must be final. An appeal to any other source meant excommunication. [16] No doubt this is why
Nicodemus came to Christ at night. [17] This will also explain why more of the people did not receive
Jesus

HILLEL AND SHAMMI

18. Two of the most noted contemporary teachers were Hillel and Shammi, who flourished about
the time of Christ’s advent. Each represented a different school of theology and were frequently were
engaged in strong arguments. On one occasion there arose a heated discussion about a hen that laid her
eggs on the Sabbath, whether or not it was lawful to eat such egg or eggs. As a result of this strong debate,
an entire treatise, called “Bet-za “ (egg), is written on this subject. Hillel stuck to his legal decision, and
what he claimed would be the position of the other great rabbis, namely, that the egg was not to be eaten.
Shammi, however, who was of the more lenient class, claimed that it could be. What was to be done? Both
of these men were held in great esteem. Their disciples were sitting by and awaiting the outcome. The
whole structure of their interpretation of Scripture might crumble should either admit defeat.

19. Finally one of the company raised his voice, and shouted, “Bath-kol” (literally, the daughter of
a voice). This was their substitute for “the spirit of prophecy.” They claimed this is the way God revealed
Himself to them. When some person said “Bath-kol” a hush fell upon the entire company. What said the
Bath-kol concerning the point under discussion. This was the reply:

“Both are the words of the living God, yet the rule of the school of Hillel should be followed.”-

Tractate Eruvin.

20. Is it to be wondered at that the Savior said they strained at a gnat, and swallowed a camel? Can

we not see why the Savior condemned them and their teachings, and why the Apostles warned the people
against listening to them?

DISTORTING SCRIPTURE.

21. As a result of such misinterpretation of Scripture, we can the better understand what the
Apostle Peter meant when he said there were some who wrested the Scripture to their own damnation. [18]
The word of God was made of none effect through such twisting and distorting. The people were taught to
believe anything and everything; and whatever came from these men to them must be the word of God.

LOOSE INTERPRETATION.

22. It was not difficult for these teachers, in view of such license and arrogancy, to claim that the
word of God had more than one interpretation, and, whichever way the Scripture was interpreted, was
lawful. As a result it was claimed that every passage of Scripture had at least four different interpretations,
to which were given the following names: “Peshat,” or the simple way (This is taking the text as it reads);
“Derush,” or the spiritual way; “Remez,” the allegorical or parabolical way. “Sod,” or the secret way. From
the first four letters of Peshat, Remez, Derush, Sod, the acrostic PaRDes was formed; hence the word
“Paradise.”

It having been established that Scripture could be interpreted, it was found that four ways were not
sufficient; hence this Hillel formed what was known as the seven rules of interpretation. This method was
followed for a time until Rabbi Ishmael raised it to thirteen rules, and finally one, Rabbi Jose of Galilee, (b)
introduced what is known as the “ Thirty-two Rules of Interpretation.” And the Talmud itself says that the
law can be interpreted in forty-nine different modes. From the foregoing, we can the better understand why
the Savior said on one occasion:

“You do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.” [19]
 

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Actually they didn't understand the gospel was to go to the world for the entire world for all 3.5 years of Jesus. ministry. They didn't even understand the purpose of His ministry.
Oh... the classic dodge that "they were dumb".

Jesus, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, was their teacher that entire time. You seem to think that our Lord was a bad teacher. The scripture says neither of those things (that they were dumb or that the Lord was a bad teacher).
They thought He was supposed to start a world wide kingdom here on earth.
They thought correctly, but they did not know about some of the events that would intervene.
They were very selfish men until they were truly converted.
And WHEN were they "truly converted"? (That is a laughable statement).

Still... you DODGED the obvious point. They were preaching the gospel of the kingdom WITHOUT the DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTION of Christ!. And the LORD did NOT correct them!

Your story is bogus and your stubbornness will not allow you to see or know the TRUTH!
 
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Gary K

New member
Banned
Oh... the classic dodge that "they were dumb".

Jesus, the LORD JESUS CHRIST, was their teacher that entire time. You seem to think that our Lord was a bad teacher. The scripture says neither of those things (that they were dumb or that the Lord was a bad teacher).

They thought correctly, but they did not know about some of the events that would intervene.

And WHEN were they "truly converted"? (That is a laughable statement).

Still... you DODGED the obvious point. They were preaching the gospel of the kingdom WITHOUT the DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTION of Christ!. And the LORD did NOT correct them!

Your story is bogus and your stubbornness will not allow you to see or know the TRUTH!
I see. So you're accusing a Jew of lying about what it was like to be a Jew in Jesus' day. If you like I can give you links so you can download his books but I very much doubt you will take me up on the offer and read them. You might have to give up some of your cherished beliefs if you learned something.

I find that sad. You're so self sufficient you're positive there is nothing left to learn as you know everything there is to know on the subject. That puts you in the same class of people as the Pharisees. There was nothing Jesus could teach them either.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
If you like I can give you links so you can download his books
Just like others that ignore what the Bible says, but they listen to and read what people say about the Bible. Here is a word document that I had no reason to discard as you never take a day off against the wolves.

"I quote the bible when necessary...(forget exact verse).. I have books in my library that refute you in detail that you cannot refute. They do a better job than I would in a few posts…...Google may also help....If you study biblical theology (looking at books, authors, etc.) instead of systematic theology or ultradispensationalism, you would see that... As it is, commentators disagree on… I believe sound evangelical scholarship totally refutes what you are saying … He is not worth reading in light of the sound scholarship that exists ..Sound NT scholarship recognizes.... Whole books have been written on it… The vast majority of godly Christians have not heard of MAD. The best of conservative, biblical, evangelical scholarship rejects it if they have heard of it…. Exact reference again? Did you check other versions or a commentary?... Buy a good commentary for the various opinions on… Hermeneutical books point out that… Even in your traditional view, scholars do not express your issues…I am not an expert on MAD and do not consider it a prominent enough view to gain much academic attention…Sound NT scholarship comes to different conclusions…Who was the prominent author (s) who held to it in your movement?.. I think you will be hard pressed to find commentators who would agree with you…As the Bible Knowledge Commentary points out,… it is not even on the radar of credible NT scholars…. I can't condense 30 years of study from a variety of sources into a few posts… any credible commentary or systematic theology will give you the arguments and verses…. I agree with the commentary. .. Listen to the Doctor (D. M. L-Jones), not radio preachers with weak NT backgrounds. …There is a reason it is a marginal view that lacks credibility among NT scholars…"Feel free to refute the many books written that contradict your views…. There is a reason no NT scholar… It is enough solid scholarship to silence MAD… an ignorant JW who blindly follows an organization or their misquoting of our scholars…. You underestimate the caliber of scholars that God has raised up to keep the sheep from falling for false teaching and ignorance on important subjects. Why should I trust you as an expert on things, and reject those with proven track records and godly character/insights? Eph. 4:11-13 vs internet wannabees with no training or accountability…Any credible biblical theology of John and Paul or any credible commentary or NT scholar or average believer has no problem with I Jn. vs Paul.....There are many resources to help you, but you prefer fringe writers over ones that can give you more biblical answers….but I should ignore more credible sources and their documented evidence? Why, pray tell?!.... What school did you go to again?... I went to Bible College in the early 80s, but have no scholastic club except TOL (which is not very scholastic)...]MAD confuses corporate, missional issues with individual, redemptive issues....I did not read this in a book (except the Bible), but I think it is a valid observation..They confuse these concepts, a rookie mistake...OSAS makes sense in deterministic Calvinism, not in a free will, relational theism....Nick's view seems to reduce us to sock puppet automatons and requires ignoring large sections of Scripture. He also misunderstands the nature of faith vs works, morals vs metaphysics, Star Trek vs Star Wars, Venus vs Mars, etc] You are simplistic to think it is a matter of what the Bible says when you interpret and twist to fit a preconceived idea. It is arrogant to assume that godly, capable, great thinkers through the centuries who reject MAD (new doctrine anyway) are clueless or without the leading of the Spirit….Mormons have a false gospel and false Christ. Pentecostals affirm the same essential, historical, biblical, orthodox truths that you
 

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I see. So you're accusing a Jew of lying about what it was like to be a Jew in Jesus' day.
I made NO COMMENT about them at all. You just go off the rails every single time you post.
Do you even read my posts? Do you have dementia? Seek medical help immediately.
You might have to give up some of your cherished beliefs if you learned something.
YOU need to give up some of your cherished beliefs. because you're extremely confused and off-base.
I find that sad. You're so self sufficient you're positive there is nothing left to learn as you know everything there is to know on the subject.
You never even respond to what I post. You are a babbling and incoherent lunatic.
That puts you in the same class of people as the Pharisees. There was nothing Jesus could teach them either.
You are the one that needs to learn GK. But your stubborn arrogance will not let you know the truth.
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
I made NO COMMENT about them at all. You just go off the rails every single time you post.
Do you even read my posts? Do you have dementia? Seek medical help immediately.

YOU need to give up some of your cherished beliefs. because you're extremely confused and off-base.

You never even respond to what I post. You are a babbling and incoherent lunatic.

You are the one that needs to learn GK. But your stubborn arrogance will not let you know the truth.
I know you didn't comment on them as if you actually believed it you would understand your tainted view of the NT. That's the same as calling the man a liar just as you do me.
 

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I know you didn't comment on them as if you actually believed it you would understand your tainted view of the NT. That's the same as calling the man a liar just as you do me.
You are such a confused person. I feel badly for you. You cannot think a logical thought. I wish that you would seek help for your mental issues.
 
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Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
22 And they said, “Cornelius the centurion, a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to summon you to his house, and to hear words from you.” 23 Then he invited them in and lodged them.

On the next day Peter went away with them, and some brethren from Joppa accompanied him.

24 And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together. 28 Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.


You can't make this say something different no matter how hard you try.
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
22 And they said, “Cornelius the centurion, a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to summon you to his house, and to hear words from you.” 23 Then he invited them in and lodged them.

On the next day Peter went away with them, and some brethren from Joppa accompanied him.

24 And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together. 28 Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.


You can't make this say something different no matter how hard you try.
And that means what?

Isaiah 50: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Isaiah said this hundreds of years before Jesus was born. My house shall be called a house of prayer for all people. Not just the bigoted Jews.
 

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And that means what?

Isaiah 50: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Isaiah said this hundreds of years before Jesus was born. My house shall be called a house of prayer for all people. Not just the bigoted Jews.
Many posters here, including you, seem to act like God never made a separation between Israel and the rest of the world. Of course "all people" can come to the Lord, but He made different ways to do that at different times.
 

Gary K

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Many posters here, including you, seem to act like God never made a separation between Israel and the rest of the world. Of course "all people" can come to the Lord, but He made different ways to do that at different times.
I guess that means there are more people that disagree with you here than agree with you.
 
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