Ukraine Crisis

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond

Ok, after years of warnings were ignored and hearing "Garry, you were right!" all damn day today, I'll repeat what I said in 2014: Stop telling me I was right and listen to what I'm saying now. My recommendations follow: 1/5

-Support Ukraine militarily, immediately, everything but boots on the ground. All weapons, intel, cyber.
-Bankrupt Putin's war machine. Freeze & seize Russia's finances & those of him and his gang.
-Kick Russia out of every intl & financial institution. PACE, Interpol, etc 2/5

-Recall all ambassadors from Russia. There is no point in talking. The new unified message is "stop or be isolated completely".
-Ban all elements of Putin's global propaganda machine. Turn them off, shut them down, send them home. Stop helping the dictator spread lies & hate.3/5

-Expose and act against Putin's lackeys in the free world. If Schröder and his ilk continue to work for Putin, bring charges. Ask the owners & advertisers of networks platforming Putin propagandists like Carlson why they allow it. 4/5

-Replace Russian oil & gas. Pressure OPEC, increase production, reopen Keystone. You can't save the planet if you don't save the people on it.
-Acknowledge there will be costs, sacrifices. We waited to long, the price is high, but it will only get higher. It's time to fight. 5/5
So far so good
Cannot ignore the political 5th column of Putinists
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me
, from the far right & left in EU
Cite?
to the tankies
What are tankies?
For four years of Trump's presidency, Putin refrained from moving on Ukraine
& his GOP followers in the US.
I don't consider myself a "GOP follower" of Trump, but this conspiracy theorist apparently believes that they exist and that they are "Putinists"?
They may have the right to support a brutal dictator's war
Can you link to anybody who supports Putin's moves in this action?
in order to criticize Biden,
Biden is deserving of all of the criticism he gets.
but it's disgusting and anti-American.
It's disgusting and anti-American to criticize the president?

Hypocrite
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Meanwhile, while Anna pretends that Trump and his "GOP followers" are "Putinists", allow me to present John Kerry, minimizing Putin's brutal invasion and occupation of a neighboring country, urging him to focus on what's really important.

IMG_20220224_111635.jpg
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Trump, being a successful businessman, understands the implications of these charts.

Biden, being a senile old fool who has never worked outside of government, doesn't.

IMG_20220224_112632.jpg


IMG_20220224_112607.jpg
 

marke

Well-known member
"... Russia's side in a conflict with America & the West ..."


It's a conflict between Russia and a former part of Russia that has broken away into a semi-independent "democracy" riddled with more corruption than Russia.

Russia and a country that is integral to her interests, much as America would find a broken away California, Oregon and Washington State to be integral to our interests. See "warm water port"

It isn't and never should have become a conflict with America and the West, no more so than should have the civil war in Vietnam.
What Putin is doing in Ukraine is of preeminent interest to all Americans, just as what Hitler was doing in Europe in his day was of interest to every free person in the entire world.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
What Putin is doing in Ukraine is of preeminent interest to all Americans, just as what Hitler was doing in Europe in his day was of interest to every free person in the entire world.
I disagree. The history of Ukraine is worth study. It has existed as part of the Russian / Soviet sphere longer than anything else.

Worth noting as well that that corner of the world is a tangled mess historically, with its proximity to Asia and waves of Muslim invasion
 

marke

Well-known member
I disagree. The history of Ukraine is worth study. It has existed as part of the Russian / Soviet sphere longer than anything else.

Worth noting as well that that corner of the world is a tangled mess historically, with its proximity to Asia and waves of Muslim invasion
I cannot help but believe America as a strong nation should do everything it can to preserve peace and stability in the world, especially defending weak nations against godless barbarians with wicked plans to dominate the world, like Hitler was and Putin is.
 

User Name

Greatest poster ever
Banned
I cannot help but believe America as a strong nation should do everything it can to preserve peace and stability in the world, especially defending weak nations against godless barbarians with wicked plans to dominate the world, like Hitler was and Putin is.
The warning signs were there. In a tweet or offhand remark, President Donald Trump would touch on what he said Ukraine had done to him during the 2016 election. Top Administration officials got an earful. Foreign leaders were treated to the stories. Occasionally his rants would unspool on live TV. “And Ukraine!” Trump shouted down the line to a Fox News host on June 19, the night after he formally announced his re-election bid. “Take a look at Ukraine!” he went on, as the host tried to move to other subjects.

Few people, even those closest to him in the White House, grasped exactly what the President of the United States seemed to believe: that Ukraine, a nation consumed over the past five years by a crippling armed conflict with Russia, had found a way to conspire against him during the 2016 election, and to collude with his rival, Hillary Clinton, by hiding the Democratic National Committee’s email server and feeding her allies dirt about Trump. It was an idea Tom Bossert, his first homeland-security adviser, described as a “completely debunked” conspiracy theory. Few saw in his Ukraine outbursts anything more than the effusions of a cable-news showman.

 

marke

Well-known member
Trump spent his entire presidency enabling Putin and trash-talking Ukraine--but sure, "This is all Biden's fault."
Trump got no money for speaking engagements like the half-million dollars Bill Clinton did. Trump got no money from Putin like Hillary did when she sold American uranium rights to Russia for more than $100 million in donations to her crooked piggyback foundation.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
President Biden today:

Good afternoon. The Russian military’s begun a brutal assault on the people of Ukraine. Without provocation, without justification, without necessity, this is a pre-mediated attack. Vladimir Putin has been planning this for months, as we’ve been saying all along. He moved more than 175,000 troops, military equipment into positions along the Ukrainian border.

He moved blood supplies into position and built up field hospitals. Which tells you all you need to know about his intentions all along.

He rejected every good faith effort the United States and our allies and partners made to address our mutual security concerns through dialogue to avoid needless conflict and avert human suffering. For weeks we have been warning that this would happen. And now it’s unfolding largely how we predicted.

In the past week we’ve seen shelling increase in the Donbass, the region in eastern Ukraine controlled by Russian-backed separatists.

The Russian government has perpetrated cyber attacks against Ukraine. We saw staged political theatre in Moscow, outlandish and baseless claims that Ukraine was about to invade and launch a war against Russia. That Ukraine was prepared to use chemical weapons. That Ukraine committed a genocide. Without any evidence, we saw flagrant violation of international law in attempting to unilaterally create two new so called republics on sovereign Ukrainian territory. And at the very moment that the United Nations Security Council was meeting to stand up for Ukraine sovereignty to stave off invasion, Putin declared his war.

Within moments, moments, missile strikes began to fall on historic cities across Ukraine. Then came the air raids. Followed by tanks and troops rolling in. We’ve been transparent with the world, we’ve shared declassified evidence about Russia’s plans and cyberattacks and false pretexts so there could be no confusion or cover up about what Putin was doing.

Putin is the aggressor. Putin chose this war. And now he and his country will bear the consequences.
Today i’m authorizing additional strong sanctions and new limitations on what can be exported to Russia. This is going to impose severe costs on the Russian economy, both immediately and over time. We have purposefully designed these sanctions to maximize the longterm impact on Russia and to minimize the impact on the United States and our allies.

I want to be clear the United States is not doing this alone. For months we have been building a coalition of partners representing well more than half the global economy. Twenty-seven members of the European Union, including France, Germany, Italy as well as the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and many others to amplify the joint impact of our response.

I just spoke with the G7 leaders this morning, and we’re in full and total agreement. We will limit Russia’s ability to do business in dollars, euros, pounds and yen to be part of the global economy. We’ll limit their ability to do that.

We’re going to stunt the ability to finance and grow the Russian military. We’re going to impose major, impair their ability to compete in the high tech 21st century economy. We’ve already seen the impact of our actions on Russia’s currency in the ruble which early today hit its weakest level ever, ever in history. The Russia stock market plunged today. The Russian government borrowing rates spiked by over 15 per cent. In today’s actions we’ve now sanctioned Russian banks that hold around $1 trillion in assets.

We’ve cut off Russia’s largest bank. A bank that holds more than one third of Russia’s banking assets by itself. Cut it off from the US financial system. And today we’re also blocking four more major banks. That means every asset they have in America will be frozen. This includes VTB, the second largest bank in Russia which has $250 billion in assets.

As promised, we’re also adding the names to the list of Russian elites and their family members that we’re sanctioning as well. As I said on Tuesday these are people who personally gained from the Kremlin’s policies and they should share in the pain.
We will keep up this drumbeat of those designations against corrupt billionaires in the days ahead.

On Tuesday we stopped the Russian government from raising money from US or European investors. Now we’re going to apply the same restrictions to Russia’s largest state owned enterprises. Companies with assets that exceed $1.4 trillion. Some of the most powerful impacts of our actions will come over time as we squeeze Russia’s access to finances and technology for strategic sectors of its economy and degrade its industrial capacity for years to come.

Between our actions and those of our allies and partners we estimate it will cut off more than half of Russia’s high tech imports. It will strike a blow to their ability to continue to modernize their military. It will degrade their aerospace industry, including their space program. It will hurt their ability to build ships, reducing their ability to compete economically.

And it will be a major hit to Putin’s longterm strategic ambitions. And we’re preparing to do more. In addition to the economic penalties we’re imposing we’re also taking steps to defend our Nato allies, particularly in the east. Tomorrow Nato will convene a summit, we’ll be there, to bring together the leaders of 30 allied nations and close partners to affirm our solidarity and to map out the next steps we will take to further strengthen all aspects of our nato alliance.

Although we provided over $650 million in defensive assistance to Ukraine just this year. Let me say it again, our forces are not and will not be engaged in the conflict with Russia in Ukraine. Our forces are not going to Europe to fight in Ukraine but to defend our Nato allies and to reassure those allies in the east.

As I made crystal clear the United States will defend every inch of Nato territory with the full force of American power. And the good news is Nato is more united and more determined than ever. There is no doubt, no doubt that the United States and every Nato ally will meet our Article 5 commitments, which says an attack on one is an attack on all.

Over the past few weeks I ordered thousands of additional forces to Germany and Poland as part of our commitment to Nato. On Tuesday in response to Russia’s aggressive action including its troop presence in Belarus and the Black Sea I authorized the deployment of ground and air forces already stationed in Europe to Nato’s eastern flank allies, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania.
Our allies have also been stepping up, adding the other allies, the rest of Nato, adding their own forces and capabilities to ensure collective defense. And today within hours of Russia’s unleashing its assault, Nato came together and authorized and activated response plans. This will enable Nato’s high readiness forces to deploy where and when they’re needed to protect our Nato allies on the eastern boundaries of Europe. And now I’m authorizing additional us force capabilities to deploy to Germany as part of Nato’s response, including some of the us based forces that the department of defense placed on standby weeks ago.

I’ve also spoken with Defense Secretary Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen milley about preparations for additional moves should they become necessary to protect our Nato allies and support the greatest military alliance in the history of the world, Nato.
As we respond, my administration is using every tool at its disposal to protect American families and businesses from rising prices at the gas pump. We’re taking active steps to bring down the cost and American oil and gas companies should not exploit this moment to hike their prices to raise profits. In our sanctions package, we specifically designed to allow energy payments to continue. We are closely monitoring energy supplies for any disruption. We’ve been coordinating with major oil producing and consuming countries toward our common interest to secure global energy supplies. We are actively working with countries around the world to elevate collective release from the strategic petroleum reserves of major energy consuming countries. And the United States will release additional barrels of oil as conditions warrant.

I know this is hard and Americans are already hurting. I will do everything in my power to limit the pain the American people are feeling at the gas pump. This is critical to me. But this aggression cannot go unanswered. If it did the consequences for America would be much worse. America stands up to bullies. We stand up for freedom.

This is who we are. Let me also repeat the warning I made last week. If Russia pursues cyberattacks again our companies, our critical infrastructure, we are prepared to respond.

For months we’ve been working closely with the private sector to harden our cyber defenses, sharpen our ability to respond to Russian cyber attacks as well. I spoke last night to President Zelensky of Ukraine and I assured him that the United States together with our allies and partners in Europe will support the Ukrainian people as they defend their country. We’ll provide humanitarian relief to ease their suffering. And in the early days of this conflict Russia propaganda outlets will keep trying to hide the truth and claim success for its military operation against a made up threat. But history has shown time and again how swift gains in territory eventually give way to grinding operations. Mass civil disobedience and strategic dead ends. The next few weeks and months will be hard on the people of Ukraine. Putin has unleashed a great pain on them. But the Ukrainian people have known 30 years of independence. They have repeatedly shown they will not tolerate anyone who tries to take their country backwards.

This is a dangerous moment for all of Europe, for the freedom around the world. Putin has committed an assault on the very principles that uphold global peace. But now the entire world sees clearly what Putin and his Kremlin allies are really all about.

This was never about genuine security concerns on their part. It was always about naked aggression. About Putin’s desire for empire by any means necessary. By bullying Russia’s neighbors through coercion and corruption. By changing borders through force and by ultimately choosing a war without a cause.

Putin’s actions betray a sinister vision for the future of our world, one where nations take what they want by force. But it is a vision that the United States and freedom loving nations will oppose with every tool fo ur considerable power. The United States and our allies and partners will emerge from this stronger, more united, more determined and more purposeful.

Putin’s aggression against Ukraine will end up costing Russia dearly economically and strategically. wWe’ll make sure of that. Putin will be a pariah on the international stage. Any nation that countenance Russia’s naked aggression against Ukraine will be stained by association.

When the history of this era is written Putin’s choice to make a totally unjustifiable war on Ukraine will have left Russia weaker and the rest of the world stronger.

Liberty, democracy, human dignity. These are the forces far more powerful than fear and oppression. They cannot be extinguished by tyrants like Putin and his armies. They cannot be erased from people’s hearts and hopes by any amount of violence and intimidation. They endure.

The contest between democracy and autocracy, between sovereignty and subjugation, make no mistake freedom will prevail. God bless the people of a free and democratic Ukraine and may God protect our troops.

 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
President Biden's words are clear and decisive. Fox News continuing to carry Putin's water is pure propaganda. What was Fox just saying?

Oh right:

Many top hosts for Fox News and other conservative media voices are blaming the White House for supposedly enabling Russia’s attack on Ukraine — even some of the same personalities who previously ridiculed President Biden’s warnings that an invasion was imminent. . . .

. . . . days earlier, Bartiromo had sounded confident the Biden administration was inflating the threat of Russian aggression to distract from bad political news at home — particularly, a motion filed by special counsel John Durham that was described by many Fox News hosts as a massive scandal.

“Was this a ruse?” she asked her audience Wednesday last week. “Was this whole thing an effort to take everybody’s attention away from what Hillary Clinton did and what we know to be a complete hoax over this Russia investigation?”

“This whole thing is a scam. It’s a total and complete scam,” former Trump White House adviser Stephen K. Bannon said on his podcast before the Russian strikes, defending Putin as “anti-woke.”

Other conservative outlets elected to ignore or play down the crisis. One America News spent most of Thursday morning airing extended live coverage of the Conservative Political Action Conference, with only brief mentions of Ukraine.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Trump spent his entire presidency enabling Putin and trash-talking Ukraine--but sure, "This is all Biden's fault."

Who could forget Helsinki...

Trump-Putin-16-July-2018-1024x576.jpg
 

marke

Well-known member
President Biden today:

Good afternoon. The Russian military’s begun a brutal assault on the people of Ukraine. Without provocation, without justification, without necessity, this is a pre-mediated attack. Vladimir Putin has been planning this for months, as we’ve been saying all along. He moved more than 175,000 troops, military equipment into positions along the Ukrainian border.

He moved blood supplies into position and built up field hospitals. Which tells you all you need to know about his intentions all along.

He rejected every good faith effort the United States and our allies and partners made to address our mutual security concerns through dialogue to avoid needless conflict and avert human suffering. For weeks we have been warning that this would happen. And now it’s unfolding largely how we predicted.

Biden saw this coming? Why then did he approve of the Nordstrom 2 pipeline that hurt Americans and the world and gave Putin key advantages in his build-up of offensive invaders on the Ukrainian border?
In the past week we’ve seen shelling increase in the Donbass, the region in eastern Ukraine controlled by Russian-backed separatists.

The Russian government has perpetrated cyber attacks against Ukraine. We saw staged political theatre in Moscow, outlandish and baseless claims that Ukraine was about to invade and launch a war against Russia. That Ukraine was prepared to use chemical weapons. That Ukraine committed a genocide. Without any evidence, we saw flagrant violation of international law in attempting to unilaterally create two new so called republics on sovereign Ukrainian territory. And at the very moment that the United Nations Security Council was meeting to stand up for Ukraine sovereignty to stave off invasion, Putin declared his war.

Within moments, moments, missile strikes began to fall on historic cities across Ukraine. Then came the air raids. Followed by tanks and troops rolling in. We’ve been transparent with the world, we’ve shared declassified evidence about Russia’s plans and cyberattacks and false pretexts so there could be no confusion or cover up about what Putin was doing.

Putin is the aggressor. Putin chose this war. And now he and his country will bear the consequences.
Today i’m authorizing additional strong sanctions and new limitations on what can be exported to Russia. This is going to impose severe costs on the Russian economy, both immediately and over time. We have purposefully designed these sanctions to maximize the longterm impact on Russia and to minimize the impact on the United States and our allies.

Biden gets tough? He is imposing sanctions in tead of moving in to rescue Ukrain with decisive military power like Bush did to answer D=Saddam's invasion of Kuwait? What a bunch of weakling 'red-line-in-the-sand' coward wimps rule the democrat party.
I want to be clear the United States is not doing this alone. For months we have been building a coalition of partners representing well more than half the global economy. Twenty-seven members of the European Union, including France, Germany, Italy as well as the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and many others to amplify the joint impact of our response.

I just spoke with the G7 leaders this morning, and we’re in full and total agreement. We will limit Russia’s ability to do business in dollars, euros, pounds and yen to be part of the global economy. We’ll limit their ability to do that.

We’re going to stunt the ability to finance and grow the Russian military. We’re going to impose major, impair their ability to compete in the high tech 21st century economy. We’ve already seen the impact of our actions on Russia’s currency in the ruble which early today hit its weakest level ever, ever in history. The Russia stock market plunged today. The Russian government borrowing rates spiked by over 15 per cent. In today’s actions we’ve now sanctioned Russian banks that hold around $1 trillion in assets.

We’ve cut off Russia’s largest bank. A bank that holds more than one third of Russia’s banking assets by itself. Cut it off from the US financial system. And today we’re also blocking four more major banks. That means every asset they have in America will be frozen. This includes VTB, the second largest bank in Russia which has $250 billion in assets.

As promised, we’re also adding the names to the list of Russian elites and their family members that we’re sanctioning as well. As I said on Tuesday these are people who personally gained from the Kremlin’s policies and they should share in the pain.
We will keep up this drumbeat of those designations against corrupt billionaires in the days ahead.

On Tuesday we stopped the Russian government from raising money from US or European investors. Now we’re going to apply the same restrictions to Russia’s largest state owned enterprises. Companies with assets that exceed $1.4 trillion. Some of the most powerful impacts of our actions will come over time as we squeeze Russia’s access to finances and technology for strategic sectors of its economy and degrade its industrial capacity for years to come.

Biden fiddles around while innocent Ukrainians get slaughtered and Americans pay huge price increases for fuels as a result of the conflict.
Between our actions and those of our allies and partners we estimate it will cut off more than half of Russia’s high tech imports. It will strike a blow to their ability to continue to modernize their military. It will degrade their aerospace industry, including their space program. It will hurt their ability to build ships, reducing their ability to compete economically.

And it will be a major hit to Putin’s longterm strategic ambitions. And we’re preparing to do more. In addition to the economic penalties we’re imposing we’re also taking steps to defend our Nato allies, particularly in the east. Tomorrow Nato will convene a summit, we’ll be there, to bring together the leaders of 30 allied nations and close partners to affirm our solidarity and to map out the next steps we will take to further strengthen all aspects of our nato alliance.

Although we provided over $650 million in defensive assistance to Ukraine just this year. Let me say it again, our forces are not and will not be engaged in the conflict with Russia in Ukraine. Our forces are not going to Europe to fight in Ukraine but to defend our Nato allies and to reassure those allies in the east.

As I made crystal clear the United States will defend every inch of Nato territory with the full force of American power. And the good news is Nato is more united and more determined than ever. There is no doubt, no doubt that the United States and every Nato ally will meet our Article 5 commitments, which says an attack on one is an attack on all.

Over the past few weeks I ordered thousands of additional forces to Germany and Poland as part of our commitment to Nato. On Tuesday in response to Russia’s aggressive action including its troop presence in Belarus and the Black Sea I authorized the deployment of ground and air forces already stationed in Europe to Nato’s eastern flank allies, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania.
Our allies have also been stepping up, adding the other allies, the rest of Nato, adding their own forces and capabilities to ensure collective defense. And today within hours of Russia’s unleashing its assault, Nato came together and authorized and activated response plans. This will enable Nato’s high readiness forces to deploy where and when they’re needed to protect our Nato allies on the eastern boundaries of Europe. And now I’m authorizing additional us force capabilities to deploy to Germany as part of Nato’s response, including some of the us based forces that the department of defense placed on standby weeks ago.

I’ve also spoken with Defense Secretary Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen milley about preparations for additional moves should they become necessary to protect our Nato allies and support the greatest military alliance in the history of the world, Nato.
As we respond, my administration is using every tool at its disposal to protect American families and businesses from rising prices at the gas pump. We’re taking active steps to bring down the cost and American oil and gas companies should not exploit this moment to hike their prices to raise profits. In our sanctions package, we specifically designed to allow energy payments to continue. We are closely monitoring energy supplies for any disruption. We’ve been coordinating with major oil producing and consuming countries toward our common interest to secure global energy supplies. We are actively working with countries around the world to elevate collective release from the strategic petroleum reserves of major energy consuming countries. And the United States will release additional barrels of oil as conditions warrant.

I know this is hard and Americans are already hurting. I will do everything in my power to limit the pain the American people are feeling at the gas pump. This is critical to me. But this aggression cannot go unanswered. If it did the consequences for America would be much worse. America stands up to bullies. We stand up for freedom.

This is who we are. Let me also repeat the warning I made last week. If Russia pursues cyberattacks again our companies, our critical infrastructure, we are prepared to respond.

For months we’ve been working closely with the private sector to harden our cyber defenses, sharpen our ability to respond to Russian cyber attacks as well. I spoke last night to President Zelensky of Ukraine and I assured him that the United States together with our allies and partners in Europe will support the Ukrainian people as they defend their country. We’ll provide humanitarian relief to ease their suffering. And in the early days of this conflict Russia propaganda outlets will keep trying to hide the truth and claim success for its military operation against a made up threat. But history has shown time and again how swift gains in territory eventually give way to grinding operations. Mass civil disobedience and strategic dead ends. The next few weeks and months will be hard on the people of Ukraine. Putin has unleashed a great pain on them. But the Ukrainian people have known 30 years of independence. They have repeatedly shown they will not tolerate anyone who tries to take their country backwards.

This is a dangerous moment for all of Europe, for the freedom around the world. Putin has committed an assault on the very principles that uphold global peace. But now the entire world sees clearly what Putin and his Kremlin allies are really all about.

This was never about genuine security concerns on their part. It was always about naked aggression. About Putin’s desire for empire by any means necessary. By bullying Russia’s neighbors through coercion and corruption. By changing borders through force and by ultimately choosing a war without a cause.

Putin’s actions betray a sinister vision for the future of our world, one where nations take what they want by force. But it is a vision that the United States and freedom loving nations will oppose with every tool fo ur considerable power. The United States and our allies and partners will emerge from this stronger, more united, more determined and more purposeful.

Putin’s aggression against Ukraine will end up costing Russia dearly economically and strategically. wWe’ll make sure of that. Putin will be a pariah on the international stage. Any nation that countenance Russia’s naked aggression against Ukraine will be stained by association.

When the history of this era is written Putin’s choice to make a totally unjustifiable war on Ukraine will have left Russia weaker and the rest of the world stronger.

Liberty, democracy, human dignity. These are the forces far more powerful than fear and oppression. They cannot be extinguished by tyrants like Putin and his armies. They cannot be erased from people’s hearts and hopes by any amount of violence and intimidation. They endure.

The contest between democracy and autocracy, between sovereignty and subjugation, make no mistake freedom will prevail. God bless the people of a free and democratic Ukraine and may God protect our troops.

 
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