REPORT: The Death Penalty Debate - By Bob Enyart

[Freak]

Originally posted by Crow
Do the unsaved commit sins, Freak? I know that they reject Christ--that's not a point of contention between us. I am asking do the unsaved commit sins? Because if they do, some God created law is being broken for them to be sinning.

*sigh*

Romans 3:23 tells us all have sinned.

This is where I stand on the issue of condemnation:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

God's inspired Word tells us that God did not send Christ into the world to condemn the world but to save the world. If someone rejects Jesus they have condemned themselves. Case closed!

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by Freak
*sigh*

Romans 3:23 tells us all have sinned.

This is where I stand on the issue of condemnation:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

God's inspired Word tells us that God did not send Christ into the world to condemn the world but to save the world. If someone rejects Jesus they have condemned themselves. Case closed!

Want to share with me how people sin if there is no law to condemn them? How are they sinning if they aren't transgressing something? I already know that unbelievers reject Christ--we're in agreement on that. I want to know how they sin if there is not some God-given law against, say, raping kids or murder.

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by taoist
For those who'd prefer not to spend the time, here are summaries of the five parts of the series.

Part 1: Death Row justice derailed

I'd been following the efforts of the journalism class at Northwestern for quite some time when this series was presented. It is all but certain that without their help, innocent men would have been put to death.

Part 2: Inept defenses cloud verdict

The basic thrust of this piece is that there is no mechanism for insuring that death penalty cases are defended by men capable of forcing the state to present valid evidence.

Part 3: The jailhouse informant

Paying for perjured testimony with reduced sentences does not reflect well on our society.

Part 4: A tortured path to Death Row

Presently living in Florida is a retired former Chicago police officer, Commander Burge, whose use of physical torture to extract false confessions has caused literally hundreds of trial verdicts to be set aside.

Part 5: Convicted by a hair

Since defrocked, Ms. Alling's false testimony concluding guilt by virtue of lab work never done resulted in many death sentences in Illinois.

Taoist, believe me that I know the death penalty is not administered well in this country. I don't think that plea bargains should be allowed in any trial--what kind of a witness is that?--a criminal trying to save his skin. I believe that any witness who lies to attempt to impugn someone in any trial should be subject to the same penalty that he was trying to bring on the other party. Physical torture-- biblically that is reserved for punishment, ie--flogging, not for obtaining testamony.

There are many big issues in the death penalty debate. We do have problems with the nature of some of the trials and convictions--to me this points the need to clean up how trials and convictions occur, not to scrap the death penalty. And trials should be timely, not years after the fact. Jail--it shouldn't even be an option except as a holding area until a person is tried. If one's crime was such that it damaged someone financially, they should be out working to pay that person back, not lifting weights in jail. Murderers should be put to death.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Crow
Want to share with me how people sin if there is no law to condemn them?

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Note the bold. To see if you understand the basic message of Christ I'm going to ask you a few questions....

*Did the Father send Jesus to condemn sinners or to save them?
*What compeled the Father to do this?

 

[drbrumley]

Freak,

Jesus came to save the entire World by His death, burial, and resurrection. And it was done out of God's love for us. But is the entire world saved Freak?

Before I came to Christ, I WAS CONDEMNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The law condemned me Freak. Thats how you KNOW you need Christ. The CONDERMNATION OF THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by Freak
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Note the bold. To see if you understand the basic message of Christ I'm going to ask you a few questions....

*Did the Father send Jesus to condemn sinners or to save them?
*What compeled the Father to do this?

Freak, this question has been answered ad nauseum. For the last time--Jesus was sent to be the Messiah of the Jews. He was sent first to the Jews, then to the Gentiles when the Jews apostasized themselves by rejecting their Messiah. He was sent to rescue those who accept him as saviour, to save them from the curse of their own sins. God wished to give mankind a chance to restore a relationship with Him.

Now, since I have answered your question, please answer this question, sans straw men, misquotes, or partial and doctored quotes, that you have been dancing around without answering:

Want to share with me how people sin if there is no law to condemn them? How are they sinning if they aren't transgressing something? I already know that unbelievers reject Christ--we're in agreement on that. I want to know how they sin if there is not some God-given law against, say, raping kids or murder.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Crow
Freak, this question has been answered ad nauseum.

No, it hasn't.

You said:

Freak--the Scripture tells of God's desire for a relationship between Him and man, of the means He arrainged for this relationship to take place, and the fate of those who accept the relationship, and the fate of those who do not. God is pretty good at condemnation, Freak.

Note what you said in the bold?

I countered that with this:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

*Did the Father send Jesus to condemn sinners or to save them? To save them.
*What compeled the Father to do this? His love.

 

[Crow]

Originally posted by Freak
No, it hasn't.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

*Did the Father send Jesus to condemn sinners or to save them? To save them.
*What compeled the Father to do this? His love.

Freak, God sent Jesus to save people WHO ACCEPTED HIM. And the fact is that many people did not accept Him, and Christ is returning at some point, and he is going to condemn and slaughter them. God is going to destroy a lot of people. More so than at any time in the OT. You may not like my answers Freak, but I haven't avoided answering your questions, unlike you.



Back to the question that you have not even attempted to answer for me:

Want to share with me how people sin if there is no law to condemn them? How are they sinning if they aren't transgressing something? I already know that unbelievers reject Christ--we're in agreement on that. I want to know how they sin if there is not some God-given law against, say, raping kids or murder.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Crow
Freak, God sent Jesus to save people WHO ACCEPTED HIM. And the fact is that many people did not accept Him, and Christ is returning at some point, and he is going to condemn and slaughter them.

Your answer is astounding. Sure, there will be a time when Christ judges but that time has not arrived. The present time we live in, we see Christ doing what, in light of this:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Want to share with me how people sin if there is no law to condemn them? How are they sinning if they aren't transgressing something? I already know that unbelievers reject Christ--we're in agreement on that. I want to know how they sin if there is not some God-given law against, say, raping kids or murder.

The Law is a tutor points people to their sins and to a need of a Savior...but the question remains why would you say this:

"God is pretty good at condemnation, Freak."

When the Bible says this:

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

 

[Freak]

Believers can be encouraged with this truth: Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

and nonbelievers can be encouraged with this truth:

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by Freak
and nonbelievers can be encouraged with this truth:

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world...

Because they are condemned already, right Freak?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Turbo
Because they are condemned already, right Freak?

They have condemned themselves with their unbelief. They have rejected the message of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Turbo]

Does sin have anything to do with why they are condemned?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Turbo
Does sin have anything to do with why they are condemned?

What is unbelief considered?

 

[Turbo]

Freak, now you sound like you are saying that people are condemned because they are unbelievers.

People are condemned because of their sins.
People are saved because they have accepted Chrit's sacrifice to wash away their sins.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Turbo
Freak, now you sound like you are saying that people are condemned because they are unbelievers.

Yes. Jesus did not come to condemn but to save. Those who have rejected the message of the gospel have condemned themselves.

 

[Turbo]

Are they held accountable only for rejecting Christ, or for all of their sins?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Turbo
Are they held accountable only for rejecting Christ, or for all of their sins?

Rejecting Christ is sin!

 

[Turbo]

That's not what I asked.

Are they held accountable only for [the sin of] rejecting Christ, or for all of their sins?

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by Turbo
That's not what I asked.

Are they held accountable only for [the sin of] rejecting Christ, or for all of their sins?

That is the embodiement of sins wrapped up---rejecting Jesus Christ----rejecting Christ is the SIN.