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  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Are the Newer translations comparable to or different from the KJV?
    The essential truth of scripture is found in most of the Newer translations (except for the politically correct ones).
    That does not excuse the error of using the archaic language of the KJV to promote doctrines that are based only on the peculiar wording found in the KJV when those words have different meanings now than they did when the KJV was written.

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post

    That is the very reason we have newer English translations than the KJV
    Are the Newer translations comparable to or different from the KJV?

    Leave a comment:


  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

    If words change meaning over time then the translation should change to fit those meanings.
    That is the very reason we have newer English translations than the KJV

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Words change meaning over time and no translation fully conveys the meaning found in the original language.
    If words change meaning over time then the translation should change to fit those meanings.

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  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Should be in all translations not just some.
    Words change meaning over time and no translation fully conveys the meaning found in the original language.

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    It is a correct interpretation that is available in some English translations.

    Revelation 17:8 refers to people whose names haven’t been written in “the book of life from the creation of the world.” Doesn’t this conflict with open theism?

    As in Revelation 13:8, the clause “from the foundation” (apo kataboleis) need not mean “from before the foundation” but simply “from the foundation” (= since the foundation). It’s not that names either were or were not written in the “book of life” before they were ever born. Rather, throughout history, in response to the choices people made, God either wrote or omitted their names from the “book of life.” The fact that names may be blotted out even after they’ve been included (Exod. 32:33; Rev. 3:5, cf. Rev. 22:18) further suggests this “book of life” is not eternally written in stone.

    Should be in all translations not just some.

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  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Is that a correct interpretation or does that better fit your theology?
    It is a correct interpretation that is available in some English translations.

    Revelation 17:8 refers to people whose names haven’t been written in “the book of life from the creation of the world.” Doesn’t this conflict with open theism?

    As in Revelation 13:8, the clause “from the foundation” (apo kataboleis) need not mean “from before the foundation” but simply “from the foundation” (= since the foundation). It’s not that names either were or were not written in the “book of life” before they were ever born. Rather, throughout history, in response to the choices people made, God either wrote or omitted their names from the “book of life.” The fact that names may be blotted out even after they’ve been included (Exod. 32:33; Rev. 3:5, cf. Rev. 22:18) further suggests this “book of life” is not eternally written in stone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    A better translation would be "since the foundation of the world", indicating that the names were added after the foundation of the world.


    Revelation 17:8 EXB (Expanded Bible)
    8 The beast you saw ·was once alive but is not alive now [L was, and is not; 13:3, 12, 14]. But soon it will come up out of the ·bottomless pit [Abyss; 9:1] and go away to ·be destroyed [its destruction]. There are people who live on earth whose names have not been written in the ·book [scroll] of life [3:5] since the ·beginning [foundation; creation] of the world. They will be amazed when they see the beast, because he was ·once alive, is not alive now, but will come again [L was, is not, but is to come; C imitating the divine title of the Lamb (1:18; 2:8) and God (1:4, 8; 4:8)].
    Is that a correct interpretation or does that better fit your theology?

    Leave a comment:


  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
    And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast


    when were the names written in "the Book of Life"
    that would be ...
    from the foundation of the world
    A better translation would be "since the foundation of the world", indicating that the names were added after the foundation of the world.


    Revelation 17:8 EXB (Expanded Bible)
    8 The beast you saw ·was once alive but is not alive now [L was, and is not; 13:3, 12, 14]. But soon it will come up out of the ·bottomless pit [Abyss; 9:1] and go away to ·be destroyed [its destruction]. There are people who live on earth whose names have not been written in the ·book [scroll] of life [3:5] since the ·beginning [foundation; creation] of the world. They will be amazed when they see the beast, because he was ·once alive, is not alive now, but will come again [L was, is not, but is to come; C imitating the divine title of the Lamb (1:18; 2:8) and God (1:4, 8; 4:8)].

    Leave a comment:


  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Sorry, I can't go against all that I have been taught and know about the attributes of God.
    If God is not all knowing then He is not God.
    If God does not fit the non-Biblical attributes of God that you were taught to believe, then God suddenly stops being God?

    Leave a comment:


  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
    God knew Abraham's name, my name , your names & wrote them in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world

    Rev 17:8 The beast which you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss, and goes to perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, the ones whose names have not been written on the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, seeing the beast, that it was a thing, and is not, yet now is.
    The Book of Life has existed from the foundation of the world, but the names written in it have been added and blotted out throughout time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lighthouse
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Abraham did not have divine foreknowledge. He had faith. So yes it meant a lot. Was God lying?

    Titus 1:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
    2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
    So if God cannot lie then what did He mean?

    If Abraham did not know what he was going to do then how could God know by means of knowing Abraham's heart? In order for God to know He would have had to know through some means other than knowing Abraham's heart.

    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    You're sidestepping the issue.
    Exactly.

    Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
    God knew what Abraham would do and God said now I know after what Abraham did
    That's illogical and grammatically incorrect.

    God knew what Judas would do Mat 26:24 & what Peter would do Mar 14:30
    Judas had already betrayed Him, and He knew Peter was weak. He didn't need foreknowledge to know these things.

    God knew Abraham's name, my name , your names & wrote them in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world
    Point to the verse that says any names were written in the book at the foundation of the world.

    Rev 17:8 The beast which you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss, and goes to perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, the ones whose names have not been written on the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, seeing the beast, that it was a thing, and is not, yet now is.
    From = since.

    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    I do not believe that what I believe in is wrong and you believe in what you believe. I agree to disagree with you for I will not change my position
    That is sad. You will never be able to change anyone else's ind if you aren't open to your mind being changed.

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
    And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast


    when were the names written in "the Book of Life"
    that would be ...
    from the foundation of the world
    You missed it.

    Read what I said again:

    Originally posted by JudgeRightly;
    The title of the book?

    "The Book of Life"

    Not:

    "The Book of Life from the foundation of the world"

    The phrase "from the foundation of the world" is not referring to the book, but to the people who lived on the earth.

    "And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast"

    In other words, people whose names were never written in the Book of Life, those people will marvel.
    The book is not called "The Book of Life from the foundation of the world."

    The phrase "from the foundation of the world" is modifying "whose names are not written."

    The phrase does NOT mean "at the foundation," but rather it means "since the foundation."

    In other words, the book was empty at the foundation, but as time went on, names were written in it.

    Compare with:

    All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. - Revelation 13:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    Do you think that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world? Or is "from the foundation of the world" referring to when the people's names were written?

    Eph 1:4 according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
    Right, the GROUP called the Body of Christ was chosen to be "in Him," not the individuals to be in the group.

    Notice the "us" and "we" in the verse.

    Not "each one of us." Not "we as individuals."

    See this post for an analogy that explains this in more detail:
    https://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5352363

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
    And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast


    when were the names written in "the Book of Life"
    that would be ...
    from the foundation of the world

    Eph 1:4 according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
    Will address this better later. Trying to sleep right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • way 2 go
    replied
    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    No, He did not.

    The title of the book?
    "The Book of Life"

    Not:
    "The Book of Life from the foundation of the world"

    The phrase "from the foundation of the world" is not referring to the book, but to the people who lived on the earth.

    "And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast"

    In other words, people whose names were never written in the Book of Life, those people will marvel.
    And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast


    when were the names written in "the Book of Life"
    that would be ...
    from the foundation of the world

    Eph 1:4 according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

    Leave a comment:

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