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Matthew 4:17 Proves the Future is Open

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    No, the redemption spoken of is one which will not happen until the Lord Jesus returns from heaven.
    I said nothing to disagree with this as I assumed the second coming was obvious from the passage as relates to "redemption" being used.

    You have said nothing that even comes close to proving that the open view is wrong.
    I beg to differ and suspect you just have not read me enough.

    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...36#post3415136

    Tolle lege, Jerry.

    AMR
    Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



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    • #17
      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
      Why did you not answer my question?

      And if it set in stone that the kingdom was not "at hand" or "imminent" in the first century then why did the Lord Jesus preach that it was imminent?

      The fact that He did preach what He did is proof positive that the future is open and at the time when the Lord Jesus preached what He did it was NOT set in stone that the kingdom could not come until He returns from heaven.
      That's a big leap without grounds for support. What do you call this new religion because it is not Christianity.
      Eph 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift --
      Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
      Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
        I beg to differ and suspect you just have not read me enough.
        Since you think that you know all about the subject of this thread why do you not just answer my question?:

        Do you think that the kingdom will be nigh at hand when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth with this passage in view?:
        "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).

        Please answer that question and we will proceed from there

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
          That's a big leap without grounds for support. What do you call this new religion because it is not Christianity.
          Since you think that what I teach is not Christianity then please tell me exactly what I said that contradicts what is taught in the Bible.

          Where I grew up if you want to accuse someone of teaching things which are contradicted by the Scriptures you are expected to prove that accusation.

          And you have proved NOTHING!
          Last edited by Jerry Shugart; March 27th, 2014, 11:41 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
            You cannot even understand the most simple thing about the subject of this thread. It is not about end times events but instead about whether the future is open or closed.

            Now I will ask you a question. Do you think that the kingdom will be nigh at hand when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth with this verse in view?:
            "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).
            Please answer that question and we will proceed from there.

            So there are some Calvinists who believe that the future is open and God has not been predetermined that only some will be saved?
            If you truly believe that I can't understand the most simple thing about the subject of this thread, why do you keep asking me questions? That says more about you than it does me. I prefer to let Jesus answer these questions.

            Revelation 1:8 (King James Version) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

            As it is written, Jesus is the first and the last, Alpha and Omega, beginning and end. So we are looking at a closed system here. Jesus parables also confirm this analysis. I will reprint them here if you don't have a Bible or are unfamiliar with them. It would be my pleasure.

            Picking out a scripture and building a theology around it is how cults are begun. I have explained this passage before and parallel passages in other books in the Bible. I see no reason to continue to feed your insatiable desire for destroying God's word as understood by those of us who believe in the Sovereignty of God.
            Eph 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift --
            Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
            Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
              That's a big leap without grounds for support. What do you call this new religion because it is not Christianity.
              Since you think that what I teach is not Christianity then please tell me exactly what I said that contradicts what is taught in the Bible.

              Where I grew up if you want to accuse someone of teaching things which are contradicted by the Scriptures you are expected to prove that accusation.

              And you have proved NOTHING!

              Picking out a scripture and building a theology around it is how cults are begun. I have explained this passage before...
              Not on this thread. Most cults also thrive when certain verses are just ignored, verses which destroy the teaching of the cult.

              And you seem to be wanting to just IGNORE the following passage because you refuse to answer my simple question:

              Do you think that the kingdom will be nigh at hand when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth with this verse in view?:
              "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).

              Please answer that question and we will proceed from there.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                Since you think that what I teach is not Christianity then please tell me exactly what I said that contradicts what is taught in the Bible.

                Where I grew up if you want to accuse someone of teaching things which are contradicted by the Scriptures you are expected to prove that accusation.

                And you have proved NOTHING!



                Not on this thread. Most cults also thrive when certain verses are just ignored, verses which destroy the teaching of the cult.

                And you seem to be wanting to just IGNORE the following passage because you refuse to answer my simple question:

                Do you think that the kingdom will be nigh at hand when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth with this verse in view?:
                "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).

                Please answer that question and we will proceed from there.
                Asked and answered.
                Eph 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift --
                Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
                Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
                  Asked and answered.
                  Here is what you said:

                  I've answered this question on another thread
                  Why not on this one?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                    Here is what you said:



                    Why not on this one?
                    Because you were the author of the other thread too. Why should I support your obstinence. I've answered this question several times today, for others.
                    Last edited by Saved.One.by.Grace; May 4th, 2014, 01:14 PM.
                    Eph 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift --
                    Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
                    Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
                      I've answered this question several times today, for others.
                      I searched and searched but I cannot find anyplace where you answered this question?:
                      Do you think that the kingdom will be nigh at hand when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth?

                      If I missed it then I am sorry. Perhaps you would be so kind as to copy your answer and paste it on a new post.

                      Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                        Since you think that what I teach is not Christianity then please tell me exactly what I said that contradicts what is taught in the Bible.

                        Where I grew up if you want to accuse someone of teaching things which are contradicted by the Scriptures you are expected to prove that accusation.

                        And you have proved NOTHING!
                        Haven't you been doing that with respect to Calvinists?
                        Eph 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift --
                        Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
                        Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                          I searched and searched but I cannot find anyplace where you answered this question?:
                          Do you think that the kingdom will be nigh at hand when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth?
                          If I missed it then I am sorry. Perhaps you would be so kind as to copy your answer and paste it on a new post.

                          Thanks!
                          Post 20 on this thread is the only answer you need.
                          Eph 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift --
                          Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
                          Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
                            Post 20 on this thread is the only answer you need.
                            The answer to this question is not found at Post 20:
                            Do you think that the kingdom will be nigh at hand when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth?

                            You just flat out refuse to answer that question. Of what are you afraid?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
                              Haven't you been doing that with respect to Calvinists?
                              No, I quote the Scriptiures to support what I say. And I never duck questions because those questions might appear to contradict my ideas.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                                No, I quote the Scriptiures to support what I say. And I never duck questions because those questions might appear to contradict my ideas.
                                That's the difference between us: you look for scriptures to support what you're saying; I read scriptures to understand what God wants me to know. I try to communicate that but often fail.
                                Eph 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift --
                                Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
                                Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

                                Comment

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