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  • Theology Club: 'In Christ' Before Me

    In the following verse Paul speaks of Christians who were "in Christ" Before he was:

    "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me"
    (Ro.16:7).

    It is not difficult to understand that when Paul uses the words "in Christ" he is referring to being in the Body of Christ, as witnessed what he said here:

    "For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another" (Ro.12:4-5).

    We can also know that when Paul speaks of others being "in Christ" the term "in Christ" always means the same thing:

    "Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new"
    (2 Cor.5:16-17).

    Of course the "new creation" is the New Man, the Body of Christ which Paul speaks of here:
    "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:14-16).

    Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following about the words "new creation":

    "This 'new creation,' this 'one new man,' this 'joint body,' formed of Jews and Gentiles made one in Christ, is called 'His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all' (Eph. 1:23)" (Stam, True Spirituality [Berean Literature Foundation, 1984], 48,50).

    Therefore, we can understand that there is evidence that other Christians were baptized into the Body of Christ before Paul was and those Christians had to be Jewish believers such as the Twelve. Therefore, it is plain that the Hebrew epistles were written to Christians who were members of the Body of Christ.
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; October 15, 2018, 09:42 AM.

  • #2
    Let us look at the following verse which the MAD's on this forum have not made a response on this thread:
    "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me" (Ro.16:7).

    Paul Sadler, the past President of the Berean Bible Society, says that the words "in Christ" in that verse means redeemed "in Christ.":

    https://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=JFM2FMNU

    The problem wit this is no one is "redeemed" in Christ because the Scriptures reveal that people are redeemed "through" His blood:

    "In whom we have redemption through (dia) his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" (Eph.1:7).

    The Greek word dia means: "of the Means or Instrument by which anything is effected; because what is done by means of a person or thing seems to pass as it were 'through' the same" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    Now let us look at the following verse again:
    "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in (en) Christ before me" (Ro.16:7).

    The primary meaning of the Greek word en is "in the interior of some whole" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    That matches perfectly with the idea of being in the Body of Christ, being "in Christ." It does not express the idea of anyone being redeemed through the blood of Christ Jesus.

    At another place, Paul makes it plain that when the words "in Christ" are used it is in regard to the Body of Christ:
    "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another" (Ro.12:5).
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; June 21, 2019, 09:13 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      There is even more evidence that the phrases "in Christ" and "in Christ Jesus" are referring to being in the Body of Christ. Here we read that Christians are "sanctified in Christ Jesus":
      "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

      We also read that believers are "sanctified by the Holy Spirit:
      "that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit" (Ro.15:16).

      In this instance the Greek word translated "sanctification" means "consecrated, or set apart as holy to God in (by union with) Christ Jesus" (A. R. Faussett).

      This is how the Holy Spirit sets apart those He sanctifies:

      "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"
      (1 Cor.12:13).

      Even though we read that "if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation" there are many people within the Mid Acts community who say that those who Paul says were "in Christ" before he was were not a New Creation, the New Man, the Body of Christ.

      However, the Scriptures will be searched in vain for any instance where Paul uses the term "in Christ" in any other way that to denote those who are in the Body of Christ. It is inconceivable that Paul would use the phrase "in Christ" indiscriminately, sometimes applying it to the Body of Christ and sometimes not. That would lead to nothing but confusion and God is not the author of confusion.

      Notice that there has not even been one MADist who posts on this forum who has even attempted to defend their teaching that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
        'In Christ' Before Me
        in Christ redemptively not in the BoC

        Paul was the first in the BoC for a pattern!

        1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
        2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

        Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by heir View Post
          in Christ redemptively not in the BoC

          Paul was the first in the BoC for a pattern!

          1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

          Hi and for a PATTERN is right on !!

          There is a difference between " in Christ " and being " in Christ Jesus "

          Those in " in Christ " are those in Rom 16:7-15 and in verse 13 , Paul's mother is mentioned !!

          When we see the phrase " in Christ Jesus " is His resurrected name !!

          We see from 1 Cor 15:8 that they were separate from the 12 as they are BORN IN DUE TIME !!

          Paul is BORN OUT OF DUE TIME !!

          Just and other proof of the Acts 9 , POSITION !!

          dan p

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
            There is a difference between " in Christ " and being " in Christ Jesus "
            "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another" (Ro.12:5).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
              "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another" (Ro.12:5).
              There was no "body of Christ" before Paul.
              All of my ancestors are human.
              Originally posted by Squeaky
              That explains why your an idiot.
              Originally posted by God's Truth
              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                There was no "body of Christ" before Paul.
                Prove it!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                  Prove it!
                  We have many times... you just don't listen.

                  1 Tim 1:16 explains it clearly... but you just don't listen.
                  All of my ancestors are human.
                  Originally posted by Squeaky
                  That explains why your an idiot.
                  Originally posted by God's Truth
                  Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                  Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                  1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                  Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                    We have many times... you just don't listen.

                    1 Tim 1:16 explains it clearly... but you just don't listen.
                    As usual you are comfortable with your delusions because 1 Timothy 1:16 does not prove or even hint that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                      As usual you are comfortable with your delusions because 1 Timothy 1:16 does not prove or even hint that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ.
                      Yes, it does... thanks.
                      All of my ancestors are human.
                      Originally posted by Squeaky
                      That explains why your an idiot.
                      Originally posted by God's Truth
                      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Let us look at the following verse which the MAD's on this forum have not made a response on this thread:
                        "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me" (Ro.16:7).

                        Paul Sadler, the past President of the Berean Bible Society, says that the words "in Christ" in that verse means redeemed "in Christ.":

                        https://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=JFM2FMNU

                        The problem wit this is no one is "redeemed" in Christ because the Scriptures reveal that people are redeemed "through" His blood:

                        "In whom we have redemption through (dia) his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" (Eph.1:7).

                        The Greek word dia means: "of the Means or Instrument by which anything is effected; because what is done by means of a person or thing seems to pass as it were 'through' the same" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

                        Now let us look at the following verse again:
                        "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in (en) Christ before me" (Ro.16:7).

                        The primary meaning of the Greek word en is "in the interior of some whole" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

                        That matches perfectly with the idea of being in the Body of Christ, being "in Christ." It does not express the idea of anyone being redeemed through the blood of Christ Jesus.

                        At another place, Paul makes it plain that when the words "in Christ" are used it is in regard to the Body of Christ:
                        "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another" (Ro.12:5).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          'In Christ' Before Me


                          In the following verse Paul speaks of Christians who were "in Christ" Before he was:

                          "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me"
                          (Ro.16:7).


                          Just means they were believers before him. All saved people were chosen in Christ before the foundation and were given purpose and grace in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

                          However all dont become believers at the same time, which manifests that they always have been in Him.
                          "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                          preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                          called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                          a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                          Charles Spurgeon !

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                            Just means they were believers before him.
                            As usual you don't give any evidence from the Scriptures to support what you said.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                              Just means they were believers before him. All saved people were chosen in Christ before the foundation and were given purpose and grace in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

                              However all dont become believers at the same time, which manifests that they always have been in Him.
                              Nonsense!
                              Christ is the LORD's chosen/elect from before the foundation of the world and those that believe into Him are elect/chosen only because they are in Him/Christ.


                              1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
                              Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
                              Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

                              Comment

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