Theology Club: The Actual Origin of Mid-Acts

Danoh

New member
Some years back, while sharing the Mid-Acts Perspective with someone, they asked me a series of questions that basically amounted to the question “where is this in Church history?”

My answer was basically along the line of ‘the question is; is this in Scripture?’

For some time, over the years, I‘d wondered ‘Is there a same, recurrent, identifiable pattern throughout the teachings and writings of some, way before Darby, O’Hair, et al, that reveals that how all these men approached thinking a thing through as they’d studied a thing out, attempting to solve for it, was a same, recurrent pattern of thought?’

One benefit of this is that with the identifying of such recurrent thought patterns, one is then not only aware of said patterns, but is then able to apply them during one’s own studies, and in less time than the years that acquiring them on one’s own normally requires, through time in the Word.

One now also knows how any mind, where sound; has approached the study of one thing or another.

What I have found is that, yes, a same recurrent pattern of thinking a thing through is there throughout the teachings and writings of some men here and there, way before Darby, O’Hair, et al.

Also, that it is the exact same pattern of thinking a thing through that the Apostle Paul himself is often found not only applying throughout Romans thru Philemon, but heavily emphasizing the necessary, same use of, to his readers.

When he writes, for example, “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits… that…until the…” he is not only basically relating a perspective from which, and how, he thinks a thing through, but is emphasizing the same in his readers.

And this same recurrent pattern of thinking a thing through; of how Paul himself approached doing so, is especially evident in his earlier writings.

This is not surprising. His earlier writings were written during a time in his own ministry when he too was being assaulted from all sides because his Mystery revelation, in his case as a God-inspired writer of Scripture itself, is also “not there, to be found, in the writings of those” God-inspired writers, “who wrote before” him.

Don’t let anyone tell you “Mid-Acts is not there in history.”

What they mean by that is that their over-reliance on their own tradition’s endless books “about” the Bible, has so thrown off how they approach thinking a thing through that they are unable to see what is not only right there in the passages, but in the actually required thought process, the passages themselves also teach.

There this recurrent pattern is in Paul’s writings.

The exact same thought process that allowed the Mystery’s reemergence: from the passages themselves, to the minds of men they were intended to be made manifest unto, through Paul’s writings.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Some years back, while sharing the Mid-Acts Perspective with someone, they asked me a series of questions that basically amounted to the question “where is this in Church history?”

Darby:

"Reference to the second chapter of Galatians will confirm and establish the point historically as to the present dispensation, where not only is the fact stated of Paul having the ministry of the Gentiles, as Peter of the circumcision; but it was actually agreed on their conference, consequent upon the grace given, that Paul and Barnabas should go to the uncircumcision; and James, and Cephas, and John should go to the circumcision. And so far was the apostle's mind under Judaising influence, that it required a positive fresh revelation to induce him to go into company with a Gentile at all, and even after this he would not eat when certain came from James. In fact the Gentile dispensation, as a distinct thing, took its rise on the death of Stephen, the witness that the Jews resisted the Holy Ghost: as their fathers did, so did they" (Darby, The Apostasy of the Successive Dispensations).
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Darby:

"Reference to the second chapter of Galatians will confirm and establish the point historically as to the present dispensation, where not only is the fact stated of Paul having the ministry of the Gentiles, as Peter of the circumcision; but it was actually agreed on their conference, consequent upon the grace given, that Paul and Barnabas should go to the uncircumcision; and James, and Cephas, and John should go to the circumcision. And so far was the apostle's mind under Judaising influence, that it required a positive fresh revelation to induce him to go into company with a Gentile at all, and even after this he would not eat when certain came from James. In fact the Gentile dispensation, as a distinct thing, took its rise on the death of Stephen, the witness that the Jews resisted the Holy Ghost: as their fathers did, so did they" (Darby, The Apostasy of the Successive Dispensations).

That is just a typical JND comment upon Galatians it is not a doctrinal statement.

When he says "it required a positive fresh revelation to induce Peter to go into company with a Gentile" JND is speaking about the vision of common meats.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Don’t let anyone tell you “Mid-Acts is not there in history.”

What they mean by that is that their over-reliance on their own tradition’s endless books “about” the Bible, has so thrown off how they approach thinking a thing through that they are unable to see what is not only right there in the passages, but in the actually required thought process, the passages themselves also teach.

There this recurrent pattern is in Paul’s writings.

The exact same thought process that allowed the Mystery’s reemergence: from the passages themselves, to the minds of men they were intended to be made manifest unto, through Paul’s writings.

I've said for a long time, and many times, that MAD was in Paul's writings, not something new created by Darby or anybody else. It is written.
 

musterion

Well-known member
That is just a typical JND comment upon Galatians it is not a doctrinal statement.

When he says "it required a positive fresh revelation to induce Peter to go into company with a Gentile" JND is speaking about the vision of common meats.

Peter went but didn't really want to. He even told Cornelius it was unlawful for him to come, but was just doing what he was told. Nor did Peter or the others in Jerusalem know for a long time afterwards WHY they saw what they saw; they knew only WHAT they saw.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
That is just a typical JND comment upon Galatians it is not a doctrinal statement.

Darby made it plain that he thought that the "present dispensation" began upon the killing of Stephen in Acts 7. Sir Robert Anderson preached with Darby and he was the first to systemize Mid-Acts dispensation and when reading his books one gets the distinct impression that it started at Acts 13 when Paul preached to the Gentiles.

I believe it was at Acts 7 when the Body of Christ came into existence. In The Berean Searchlight Win Johnson wrote:

"Matthew 12:31,32 states: 'Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [age], neither in the world to come.'​

"These words of warning came from the lips of the Son of God while He walked among men in His earthly ministry. They were addressed to the religious leaders of the nation Israel. Their blasphemy against Him even when He hung on the Cross was forgiven by the Father in answer to the prayer, 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do' (Luke 23:34).

"But when at Pentecost, Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, announced the return of Messiah on the condition of Israel's national repentance, these leaders instigated a persecution that reached its climax in the stoning of Stephen, a godly man, 'full of the Holy Ghost' (Acts 7:54-60). It was here that the 'unpardonable sin' was committed by Israel's leaders. The Third Person of the Trinity had been blasphemed and His pleadings through the Apostles ignored. This sin will never be forgiven" (Win Johnson, "The Unpardonable Sin," The Berean Searchlight, Feb.2001, p.6).​

The "unpardonable sin" was committed at Acts 7, and I believe that at that point in time national Israel was temporarily set aside. I believe that at that time the Holy Spirit baptized all believers into the Church, which is His Body.

After all, what was the Lord to do with the Jewish believers since He had concluded the nation of Israel as a whole in unbelief?:

"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all" (Ro.11:30-32).​

That explains why Paul could speak of some being "in Christ" before him:

"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me" (Ro.16:7).​
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Darby made it plain that he thought that the "present dispensation" began upon the killing of Stephen in Acts 7. Sir Robert Anderson preached with Darby and he was the first to systemize Mid-Acts dispensation and when reading his books one gets the distinct impression that it started at Acts 13 when Paul preached to the Gentiles.

I believe it was at Acts 7 when the Body of Christ came into existence. In The Berean Searchlight Win Johnson wrote:

"Matthew 12:31,32 states: 'Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [age], neither in the world to come.'​

"These words of warning came from the lips of the Son of God while He walked among men in His earthly ministry. They were addressed to the religious leaders of the nation Israel. Their blasphemy against Him even when He hung on the Cross was forgiven by the Father in answer to the prayer, 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do' (Luke 23:34).

"But when at Pentecost, Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, announced the return of Messiah on the condition of Israel's national repentance, these leaders instigated a persecution that reached its climax in the stoning of Stephen, a godly man, 'full of the Holy Ghost' (Acts 7:54-60). It was here that the 'unpardonable sin' was committed by Israel's leaders. The Third Person of the Trinity had been blasphemed and His pleadings through the Apostles ignored. This sin will never be forgiven" (Win Johnson, "The Unpardonable Sin," The Berean Searchlight, Feb.2001, p.6).​

The "unpardonable sin" was committed at Acts 7, and I believe that at that point in time national Israel was temporarily set aside. I believe that at that time the Holy Spirit baptized all believers into the Church, which is His Body.

After all, what was the Lord to do with the Jewish believers since He had concluded the nation of Israel as a whole in unbelief?:

"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all" (Ro.11:30-32).​

That explains why Paul could speak of some being "in Christ" before him:

"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me" (Ro.16:7).​


Hi Jerry and good to see you are back !!

But Gal 3:28 is VERY , VERY , CLEAR that any one whether Jew , Greek , Bond and Free and Male and Female LOSE there Identity in the Body of Christ !!

No one will ever get around the 4 verbs in the Present Tense which are in Gal 3:28 !!

Win Johnson and C Stam are wrong concerning the 12 In and 12 OUT !!

Look the verbs in Gal 3:28 and see !!

dan p
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Mid- Acts started when it happened to Paul, it's gospel.


Hi and I agree with most of your post !!

Here is where my disagreement is , there is no MID-ACTS position as it is a CREATED theological so that Acts 2 , 9 , 11 , 13 and Acts 28 could worship together !!

Dispensationalist are all over the place concerning dispenationalism , believe me !!

I believe that most Grace Assemblies will use the term Mid-Acts phrase than use we are ACTS 9 , for that is why we use it in our assembly .

Trust me , I have clashed with them and these DUMB BUNNIES do not know how the prove the Acts 9:6 position !!

dan p
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Hi Jerry and good to see you are back !!

But Gal 3:28 is VERY , VERY , CLEAR that any one whether Jew , Greek , Bond and Free and Male and Female LOSE there Identity in the Body of Christ !!

No one will ever get around the 4 verbs in the Present Tense which are in Gal 3:28 !!

Win Johnson and C Stam are wrong concerning the 12 In and 12 OUT !!

Look the verbs in Gal 3:28 and see !!

dan p

Do you deny that both Gentiles and Jews have been baptized into the Body of Christ by one Spirit? See 1 Corinthians 12:13.

What Paul is saying at Galatians 3:28 is that there are no distinctions between those who are in the Body.

Trust me , I have clashed with them and these DUMB BUNNIES do not know how the prove the Acts 9:6 position !!

The Acts 9 position has never been proved. The Acts 13 position has been proved.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Do you deny that both Gentiles and Jews have been baptized into the Body of Christ by one Spirit? See 1 Corinthians 12:13.

What Paul is saying at Galatians 3:28 is that there are no distinctions between those who are in the Body.



The Acts 9 position has never been proved. The Acts 13 position has been proved.

Hello Jerry, good to see you !!
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Do you deny that both Gentiles and Jews have been baptized into the Body of Christ by one Spirit? See 1 Corinthians 12:13.

What Paul is saying at Galatians 3:28 is that there are no distinctions between those who are in the Body.



The Acts 9 position has never been proved. The Acts 13 position has been proved.


Hi Jerry and glad you are O K , YES , but when Jews and Gentiles Bond or Free and there are NO MALE or FEMALE in the Body of Christ , JERRY we are a New Man Eph 2:15 !!

All lose there INDENTITY in the Body as the 4 verbs tenses in Gal 3:28 are in the Present tense , SORRY !!

DAN P
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Darby made it plain that he thought that the "present dispensation" began upon the killing of Stephen in Acts 7. Sir Robert Anderson preached with Darby and he was the first to systemize Mid-Acts dispensation and when reading his books one gets the distinct impression that it started at Acts 13 when Paul preached to the Gentiles.

I believe it was at Acts 7 when the Body of Christ came into existence. In The Berean Searchlight Win Johnson wrote:

"Matthew 12:31,32 states: 'Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [age], neither in the world to come.'​

"These words of warning came from the lips of the Son of God while He walked among men in His earthly ministry. They were addressed to the religious leaders of the nation Israel. Their blasphemy against Him even when He hung on the Cross was forgiven by the Father in answer to the prayer, 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do' (Luke 23:34).

"But when at Pentecost, Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, announced the return of Messiah on the condition of Israel's national repentance, these leaders instigated a persecution that reached its climax in the stoning of Stephen, a godly man, 'full of the Holy Ghost' (Acts 7:54-60). It was here that the 'unpardonable sin' was committed by Israel's leaders. The Third Person of the Trinity had been blasphemed and His pleadings through the Apostles ignored. This sin will never be forgiven" (Win Johnson, "The Unpardonable Sin," The Berean Searchlight, Feb.2001, p.6).​

The "unpardonable sin" was committed at Acts 7, and I believe that at that point in time national Israel was temporarily set aside. I believe that at that time the Holy Spirit baptized all believers into the Church, which is His Body.

After all, what was the Lord to do with the Jewish believers since He had concluded the nation of Israel as a whole in unbelief?:

"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all" (Ro.11:30-32).​

That explains why Paul could speak of some being "in Christ" before him:

"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me" (Ro.16:7).​

Was their sin unpardonable then?

Was not Saul among them? he too heard the gospel and saw Stephens' godliness, he also gnashed upon him with his teeth.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
All lose there INDENTITY in the Body as the 4 verbs tenses in Gal 3:28 are in the Present tense , SORRY !!

Sometimes you have to use your brain, Dan!

Are you willing to argue that you are no longer a male?

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal3:28).​

All Paul is saying is that "in Christ" all believers are on the same level, no longer some being free men and some being their bond servants.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Was their sin unpardonable then?

Was not Saul among them? he too heard the gospel and saw Stephens' godliness, he also gnashed upon him with his teeth.

The reference is to the "nation" of Israel previously being the Lord's special people. That generation of Jews as a "nation" fell from their previous position of a people above all people on the face of the earth but yet "individual" Jews could still be saved.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Sometimes you have to use your brain, Dan!

Are you willing to argue that you are no longer a male?

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal3:28).​

All Paul is saying is that "in Christ" all believers are on the same level, no longer some being free men and some being their bond servants.


Hi and I believe you are mis-understanding , what will happen at the DEPARTUTE /what others call thre RAPTURE , and that is when there will not be MALE nor FEMALE , think a little BIT MORE Jerry !!

dan p
 
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