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Mid-Acts in 300 AD

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  • #31
    Where is your internal exegetical evidence for a change in "stewardship" "Inferencing" will not suffice because I do not accept your premise. I am a firm believer that truth must come ultimately come from proper exegesis of the words of scripture. "The words of the Lord are pure words as silver tried in a furnace of earth seven times."

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Shasta View Post
      Where is your internal exegetical evidence for a change in "stewardship"? "Inferencing" will not suffice because I do not accept your premise. I am a firm believer that truth must come ultimately come from proper exegesis of the words of scripture.
      When Paul taught the revelations found in His Scriptures the method he used was to "reason" out of those Scriptures. And that is exactly what the method which I will use which proves a change in stewardship.
      "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2).

      At the time when the Christ walked the earth He said that "salvation is of the Jews" (Jn.4:22). The Jews were to be the Lord's stewards to bring the knowledge of the LORD to the world (Mt.5:14). But since the nation did not recognize her promised Messiah that nation was temporarily cast aside as the Lord's steward to bring the whole world to the knowledge of the Lord Jesus (Rom.11:15).

      Later, when Paul was converted he was given a stewardship responsibility to the Gentiles and was appointed as the apostle to the Gentile. He was also given a new revelation to preach to the Gentiles (Gal.1:16). Preaching that gospel to the Gentiles was his stewardship (dispensational) responsibility. Since a new stewardship does not begin until the stewardship responsibility is exercised then it becomes obvious that the present dispensation did not begin until Paul preached the gospel of the grace of God to the Gentiles.

      So this proves a stewardship change from the previous stewardship given to the Jewish believers at Acts 1:8:
      "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:8).

      None of those who originally received this stewardship preached in the uttermost part of the earth.

      Let us look at this stewardship responsibility which was given to Paul:
      "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).

      This stewardship responsibility was not given to anyone before Paul, as witnessed by his words here:
      "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).

      If someone previous to Paul had been preaching that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" then Paul wouldn't say that "now" the righteousness of God without the law is made known.

      This shows that Paul's stewardship to preach the gospel of grace represented a new stewardship. And Paul's words here make the same point:
      "Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known..." (Ro.16:25-26).

      Besides that, the Scriptures will be searched in vain for evidence that anyone before Paul preached the gospel of grace.

      I do not accept your premise.
      What premise is that?
      Last edited by Jerry Shugart; August 29, 2015, 07:51 AM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
        When Paul taught the revelations found in His Scriptures the method he used was to "reason" out of those Scriptures. And that is exactly what the method which I will use which proves a change in stewardship.
        "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2).

        At the time when the Christ walked the earth He said that "salvation is of the Jews" (Jn.4:22). The Jews were to be the Lord's stewards to bring the knowledge of the LORD to the world (Mt.5:14). But since the nation did not recognize her promised Messiah that nation was temporarily cast aside as the Lord's steward to bring the whole world to the knowledge of the Lord Jesus (Rom.11:15).

        Later, when Paul was converted he was given a stewardship responsibility to the Gentiles and was appointed as the apostle to the Gentile. He was also given a new revelation to preach to the Gentiles (Gal.1:16). Preaching that gospel to the Gentiles was his stewardship (dispensational) responsibility. Since a new stewardship does not begin until the stewardship responsibility is exercised then it becomes obvious that the present dispensation did not begin until Paul preached the gospel of the grace of God to the Gentiles.

        So this proves a stewardship change from the previous stewardship given to the Jewish believers at Acts 1:8:
        "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:8).

        None of those who originally received this stewardship preached in the uttermost part of the earth.

        Let us look at this stewardship responsibility which was given to Paul:
        "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).

        This stewardship responsibility was not given to anyone before Paul, as witnessed by his words here:
        "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).

        If someone previous to Paul had been preaching that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" then Paul wouldn't say that "now" the righteousness of God without the law is made known.

        This shows that Paul's stewardship to preach the gospel of grace represented a new stewardship. And Paul's words here make the same point:
        "Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known..." (Ro.16:25-26).

        Besides that, the Scriptures will be searched in vain for evidence that anyone before Paul preached the gospel of grace.



        What premise is that?
        I do not believe in MAD at all. You can say it is a product of reasoning but if it cannot b found in the scriptures then it is an extra-Biblical construct no matter how reasonable it sounds. I think all doctrines must be build from the foundation up through exegetical work in the text. All too often proponents of MAD want to bring in their broad construct but when I look into individual passages their case evaporates.

        I think it is obvious that Paul was called to take the gospel to the Gentile nations and that this was a stage in the unfolding plan. He called it a "dispensation" because in the management of God's project that was his area of function. Of course men like Barnabas and Apollos were involved as well.

        What I want to know is what you think happened midway through the book of Acts and how that differs from the position of the "neo-MAD" faction.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Shasta View Post
          I do not believe in MAD at all.
          When do you think that the present dispensation of grace began? And please tell me where that beginning is found in the Scriptures.

          If we are to know what iour stewardship responsibility is during the present time then we should at least be able to determine when this dispensation began. Otherwise, we may be following the wrong commission. These two verses gives us a hint as to what that responsibility is:
          "Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms" (1 Pet.4:10).
          "This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God" (1 Cor.4:1).

          If this is our stewardship responsibility then how can we be stewards of the mysteries of God unless we preach this?:
          "Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known" (Ro.16:25-26).

          You can say it is a product of reasoning but if it cannot be found in the scriptures then it is an extra-Biblical construct no matter how reasonable it sounds.
          As far as I can see you did not demonstrate that anything I said is an extra-Biblical construct.

          I think all doctrines must be build from the foundation up through exegetical work in the text. All too often proponents of MAD want to bring in their broad construct but when I look into individual passages their case evaporates.
          Do you think that Paul was in error when he "reasoned out of the Scriptures"?

          I say that if it was good enough for him then it is good enough for me. Of course if you think that I used any verse in a wrong sense then we can discuss the true meaning of that verse.

          What particular passage which I quoted when I reasoned out of the Bible caused my case to evaporate?

          What I want to know is what you think happened midway through the book of Acts and how that differs from the position of the "neo-MAD" faction.
          As I said earlier, the stewardship responsibility given to Paul was to preach the gospel of grace to the Gentiles so the present dispensation did not begin until Acts 13.

          Those in the Neo-MAD camp say that Paul was the first person to be saved by grace and that happened at Acts 9. Therefore, according to them, the dispensation of grace began at Acts 9 when Peter was saved by grace..

          However, a "stewardship" is in regard to "service" and not to "salvation."

          I will look forward to knowing where you place the beginning of the present dispensation and where that beginning can be found in the Scriptures.

          Thanks!

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