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  • Have I gone MAD???

    Am I Mid Acts?

    I've been told a couple of times now, that my stance on books being written to Jews distinguishing carefully 'not to me' makes me MAD. I've been told that appreciating anything a Mid Acts Dispensationalist has to say makes me a MAD sympathizer and likely MAD as well, and I've been told that my view on Grace and no works plants me well within MAD walls. I've been told that If I recognize and agree that Paul's 'Mystery' really was secret before Paul, that I'm with out a doubt of Mid Acts persuasion.

    In a sense, I've always been Grace plus nothing. I'm told that Grace Theology IS Mid Acts theology.

    Two weeks ago, one TOL member, while arguing over Sabbath keeping called me Mid Acts, whether I wanted to admit it or not....


    What is the mark of Mid Acts theology? How best would I know if I am Mid Acts?

    I've always enjoyed MidActs discussion (as did AMR btw. I've long since come to realize that Mid Acts is nowise heresy or hetrodox as far as 10 years ago. It would surprise me if I fall within the acceptance of Mid Acts fellowship but I'm not opposed to the idea, just wondering what I really do have in common. Thanks for your ear. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    ? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  • #2
    Do you think that the dispute recorded in Acts was resolved during the Apostolic era, or not? MAD believes not, and they believe it so hard that they think there was a rift in the Church /Body of Christ that occurred during the Apostles' lifetimes and persisted thereafter until the 1800s when someone realized what had happened, long, long after the fact. In contrast is the majority view, that the dispute was resolved during the Apostolic era, and the Church was one unified Body thereafter. imo and fwiw.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Idolater View Post
      Do you think that the dispute recorded in Acts was resolved during the Apostolic era, or not? MAD believes not, and they believe it so hard that they think there was a rift in the Church /Body of Christ that occurred during the Apostles' lifetimes and persisted thereafter until the 1800s when someone realized what had happened, long, long after the fact. In contrast is the majority view, that the dispute was resolved during the Apostolic era, and the Church was one unified Body thereafter. imo and fwiw.
      Good question. I'm not sure. It 'seemed' to have been healed. Peter called Paul's writing scripture, John Mark rejoined Paul. I also do not agree with a lot of Bullinger's posits, but it seems you don't have to agree with Bullinger to be Mid Acts.

      My question comes from spending some time Saturday with a good friend who is Grace/Mid Acts (he doesn't prefer M.A.D.). He said, after a long conversation that I was 'well within Mid Acts Parameters.' Whatever that means, it certainly means 1) I agree: Grace and nothing else. and 2) that Hebrews, James, Peter weren't my gentile mail.

      Appreciate the discussion, thank you for your input here. -Lon
      My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
      Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
      Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
      Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
      No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
      Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

      ? Yep

      Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

      ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

      Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Lon View Post

        Good question. I'm not sure. It 'seemed' to have been healed. Peter called Paul's writing scripture, John Mark rejoined Paul. I also do not agree with a lot of Bullinger's posits, but it seems you don't have to agree with Bullinger to be Mid Acts.

        My question comes from spending some time Saturday with a good friend who is Grace/Mid Acts (he doesn't prefer M.A.D.). He said, after a long conversation that I was 'well within Mid Acts Parameters.' Whatever that means, it certainly means 1) I agree: Grace and nothing else. and 2) that Hebrews, James, Peter weren't my gentile mail.

        Appreciate the discussion, thank you for your input here. -Lon
        OK. What about Hebrews, James, and Peter do you find objectionable? Reason I ask is that a lot of the texts in these books that sound different from your crudely put "grace and nothing else" have relatives in Paul's books too. iow maybe in English some two thousand years later there seems superficially to be some sort of categorical difference between the Pauline books and all the other NT, but maybe, there really isn't any such categorical difference at all and all the books of the NT were written to the one Church /Body of Christ, even if this or that one was written to this or that local assembly of the one Church, with one or another ethnic or cultural or racial makeup, perhaps distinct from other local assemblies, to whom other books were addressed.

        btw as a Catholic convert I perceive in Catholicism grace and nothing else, mercy and nothing else, faith and nothing else, Christ and nothing else, and even, the Scripture and nothing else. And naturally all for God's own glory and nothing else, that's the most obvious one of all in Catholicism, and that's really saying something since all the other ones are so plainly manifested by Catholicism.
        "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

        @Nee_Nihilo

        Comment


        • #5
          MAD means that Christ began a new dispensation of the gospel of the grace of GOD through the Apostle Paul in the middle of Acts when Israel's rejection of her Messiah came to it's fullness and GOD postponed the prophetic program for national Israel. GOD then began to bless the nations thru the cross in spite of Israel's failure.

          Israel's program thru the twelve:

          Luk 22:28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
          Luk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
          Luk 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


          Peter addressing Israel under the prophetic program, the ministry of the twelve:

          Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
          Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
          Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


          The nations/gentiles program thru the Apostle Paul:

          Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

          The difference between what was prophesied for national Israel and what was newly revealed thru the Apostle Paul according to the mystery is the main divide and that distinction began in mid-Acts.

          When one acknowledges that Paul was not one of the twelve and that his ministry was unique to the nations/gentiles then one is on the road to understanding and accepting mid-Acts dispensationalism MAD.

          Bullinger was Acts 28 dispensational or Ultra- dispensational, not MAD.

          I recommend the book "Things That Differ" by C.R. Stam.

          https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/p...s-that-differ/

          Last edited by steko; July 27, 2020, 08:31 PM.
          Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
          Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Idolater View Post
            Do you think that the dispute recorded in Acts was resolved during the Apostolic era, or not? MAD believes not, and they believe it so hard that they think there was a rift in the Church /Body of Christ that occurred during the Apostles' lifetimes and persisted thereafter until the 1800s when someone realized what had happened, long, long after the fact. In contrast is the majority view, that the dispute was resolved during the Apostolic era, and the Church was one unified Body thereafter. imo and fwiw.
            Please learn what MAD actually believes. Your straw-man is not it.
            All of my ancestors are human.
            Originally posted by Squeaky
            That explains why your an idiot.
            Originally posted by God's Truth
            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by steko View Post
              MAD means that Christ began a new dispensation of the gospel of the grace of GOD through the Apostle Paul in the middle of Acts when Israel's rejection of her Messiah came to it's fullness and GOD postponed the prophetic program for national Israel. GOD then began to bless the nations thru the cross in spite of Israel's failure.

              Israel's program thru the twelve:

              Luk 22:28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
              Luk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
              Luk 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


              Peter addressing Israel under the prophetic program, the ministry of the twelve:

              Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
              Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
              Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


              The nations/gentiles program thru the Apostle Paul:

              Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

              The difference between what was prophesied for national Israel and what was newly revealed thru the Apostle Paul according to the mystery is the main divide and that distinction began in mid-Acts.

              When one acknowledges that Paul was not one of the twelve and that his ministry was unique to the nations/gentiles then one is on the road to understanding and accepting mid-Acts dispensationalism MAD.

              Bullinger was Acts 28 dispensational or Ultra- dispensational, not MAD.

              I recommend the book "Things That Differ" by C.R. Stam.

              https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/p...s-that-differ/
              All of my ancestors are human.
              Originally posted by Squeaky
              That explains why your an idiot.
              Originally posted by God's Truth
              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by steko View Post
                MAD means that Christ began a new dispensation of the gospel of the grace of GOD through the Apostle Paul in the middle of Acts when Israel's rejection of her Messiah came to it's fullness and GOD postponed the prophetic program for national Israel. GOD then began to bless the nations thru the cross in spite of Israel's failure.

                Israel's program thru the twelve:

                Luk 22:28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
                Luk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
                Luk 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


                Peter addressing Israel under the prophetic program, the ministry of the twelve:

                Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
                Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
                Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


                The nations/gentiles program thru the Apostle Paul:

                Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

                The difference between what was prophesied for national Israel and what was newly revealed thru the Apostle Paul according to the mystery is the main divide and that distinction began in mid-Acts.

                When one acknowledges that Paul was not one of the twelve and that his ministry was unique to the nations/gentiles then one is on the road to understanding and accepting mid-Acts dispensationalism MAD.

                Bullinger was Acts 28 dispensational or Ultra- dispensational, not MAD.

                I recommend the book "Things That Differ" by C.R. Stam.

                https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/p...s-that-differ/
                Thanks. I'm reading Finck at the moment, will move on to Stam. I'm a little surprised I agree at this point. I do acknowledge what you are saying is scripture so have to agree with it at this point.
                My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                ? Yep

                Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Idolater View Post
                  OK. What about Hebrews, James, and Peter do you find objectionable?
                  Not objectionable, just that when I finally got Hebrews as a uniquely Hebrew problem, I had to see how Hebrews applied to them (at one time, they no longer sacrifice animals). It is very needful to read books as they are intended because application isn't direct. Hebrews 6:4 isn't a warning against an unpardonable sin (I used to think it at least might be, but I was wrong). It is telling Hebrews they cannot, as Christians, go back to temple and give sin offering. It puts Jesus' blood in contempt and the whole purpose is trust in His work. "It is finished." It wouldn't hurt to pay attention to what Mid Acts teaches. They get this part exactly right. I'm not trying to make you Mid Acts, just saying they get this right more often than others do. Things start making sense when you pay attention.


                  Originally posted by Idolater View Post
                  Reason I ask is that a lot of the texts in these books that sound different from your crudely put "grace and nothing else" have relatives in Paul's books too.
                  Yes they do. No Mid Acts believes otherwise. If I 'am' Mid Acts, I love these other books, it is just that I run them through the filter of 'a Christian Jew's mail.' You are also correct that Paul said we are to follow Jesus' teaching, but I don't believe any Mid Acts would say otherwise, just qualify/clarify. Paul says 'as I follow Christ' in a manner that shows he, himself, showed the way, and then he describes in his letters exactly how to do that. For a very long time, I've said the mark of any Christian is being spiritual, filled with the Spirit. "If any man is in Christ, he is a new creation." There is no need to tell a person who is a new creation to 'follow Jesus' they already have Him living in them and He has made them a new creation. Rather, we learn how better to fulfill our part in body life so we gather, teach, encourage etc. but the days of teaching a believer 'how' to be a believer are over. We plant, sow, and the Holy Spirit does His own work, without our help. The days of 'playing' Holy Spirit are over.


                  Originally posted by Idolater View Post
                  ]iow maybe in English some two thousand years later there seems superficially to be some sort of categorical difference between the Pauline books and all the other NT, but maybe, there really isn't any such categorical difference at all and all the books of the NT were written to the one Church /Body of Christ, even if this or that one was written to this or that local assembly of the one Church, with one or another ethnic or cultural or racial makeup, perhaps distinct from other local assemblies, to whom other books were addressed.
                  Mid Acts teaching, like Steko's post above, proves out by substantiation of Paul's writing, that there is a difference, so much so that Peter said Paul's writings were hard to understand. If there are two different approaches to scripture today, it is partially (or wholly) due to the confusion the churches have proffered to date. We are all, in some form or another, versions of judaisim. That is, Galatians needs to be applied to us, we've got to be careful that we aren't applying Jewish mail else we are to some degree confusing people. I'm convinced God is doing something new today, with shrinking churches. Something is just not adding up to the world at large. We need to give the RIGHT message without the confusions.
                  Originally posted by Idolater View Post
                  btw as a Catholic convert I perceive in Catholicism grace and nothing else, mercy and nothing else, faith and nothing else, Christ and nothing else, and even, the Scripture and nothing else. And naturally all for God's own glory and nothing else, that's the most obvious one of all in Catholicism, and that's really saying something since all the other ones are so plainly manifested by Catholicism.
                  I understand. The most important discussion is whether these books are all 'our' mail or not. They are in the sense that they are all in our Bibles, but Mid Acts teaching says we learn 'from' certain books rather than are directly addressed by certain books. As I also said, there is no harm in listening to them, only learning what they say and seeing if it is actually scriptures (and I think they can defend that rigorously). So simply listening and learning is my challenge and I'm convinced, even if you never become Mid Acts, you'll 1) appreciate what is said because it'll make good sense and 2) you'll understand your own bible reading better for having done it.
                  My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                  Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                  Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                  Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                  No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                  Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                  ? Yep

                  Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                  ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                  Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lon View Post
                    'a Christian Jew's mail.'
                    MAD says that things that differ are not the same, like for example, if there is something Old, and something New, they differ and are not the same. MAD introduces a new New, apart from the New that was promised in the Old, and apart from the New mentioned in Hebrews. In fact Paul himself in 1st Corinthians mentions this New.

                    "Love your neighbor as yourself". Clearly, this is, to use your word, a Jew's mail, since it's found in the Old. So there's something different (part of the Old) and yet this same command is mentioned all throughout the New, including in Pauline epistles.

                    Paul also wrote about Communion, about the bread and the cup, writing to a church in Corinth, a Gentile city, with some dispersed Jews but a Gentile city and a Gentile assembly, and he wrote about Communion as if the Corinthian church was celebrating it.

                    Now as I'm sure you're aware, there are elements of MAD who teach against going to church weekly, and against celebrating Communion, with the same basic reasoning as you give with "a Christian Jew's mail".
                    Originally posted by Lon View Post
                    You are also correct that Paul said we are to follow Jesus' teaching, but I don't believe any Mid Acts would say otherwise, just qualify/clarify. Paul says 'as I follow Christ' in a manner that shows he, himself, showed the way, and then he describes in his letters exactly how to do that.
                    Right. Like, MAD would say that when Christ teaches us to, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God", that that's not for the Body of Christ. Even though Acts records Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, teaching the kingdom of God.
                    Originally posted by Lon View Post
                    The days of 'playing' Holy Spirit are over.
                    Well that's good.
                    Originally posted by Lon View Post
                    ...Galatians needs to be applied to us, we've got to be careful that we aren't applying Jewish mail else we are to some degree confusing people.
                    One thing I would expect to see if indeed any of the New Testament is "Jewish mail" is something about circumcision. According to MAD I would expect to see Paul teaching against circumcision (he does), and teaching for circumcision in at least one of these supposedly "Jewish mail" books (there isn't any, not a single one).
                    Originally posted by Lon View Post
                    I'm convinced God is doing something new today, with shrinking churches. Something is just not adding up to the world at large. We need to give the RIGHT message without the confusions.
                    Agreed in concept, though we probably disagree in content.
                    Originally posted by Lon View Post
                    I understand. The most important discussion is whether these books are all 'our' mail or not. They are in the sense that they are all in our Bibles, but Mid Acts teaching says we learn 'from' certain books rather than are directly addressed by certain books. As I also said, there is no harm in listening to them, only learning what they say and seeing if it is actually scriptures (and I think they can defend that rigorously). So simply listening and learning is my challenge and I'm convinced, even if you never become Mid Acts, you'll 1) appreciate what is said because it'll make good sense and 2) you'll understand your own bible reading better for having done it.
                    What's your thought on the institution of the office of bishop? Paul mentions the office, and wrote to two bishops that he personally consecrated, and taught one of them to continue the practice of teaching and consecrating new bishops, so that the office would continue. Also, Peter addressed this same group of authentic pastors, calling them elders. Whether they are elders, or overseers, or bishops, they are of Apostolic origin, including Paul, and not just Paul.
                    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

                    @Nee_Nihilo

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Idolater View Post
                      MAD says that things that differ are not the same, like for example, if there is something Old, and something New, they differ and are not the same. MAD introduces a new New, apart from the New that was promised in the Old, and apart from the New mentioned in Hebrews. In fact Paul himself in 1st Corinthians mentions this New.
                      I understand. I've read a bit of MAD that I don't agree with (Bullinger, for instance), but a man I respect, with a seminary degree, told me I was well 'within' the Grace movement (grace alone) and within acceptable parameters of Mid Acts teaching 'so as to be indistinguishable." I do often agree with Mid Acts on many things and I also believe their instructions for reading the word of God are best for anyone to grasp the meaning of scriptures, but I'm unsure if it actually makes me Mid Acts. Likely just very sympathetic.

                      Originally posted by Idolater View Post
                      "Love your neighbor as yourself". Clearly, this is, to use your word, a Jew's mail, since it's found in the Old. So there's something different (part of the Old) and yet this same command is mentioned all throughout the New, including in Pauline epistles.
                      Agree. For me, there is a lot that is 'the same' but Mid Acts cautions against those. Because of the continuity of scriptures I see, I'm pretty sure it keeps me from a Mid Acts label. Bullinger tags almost anything "Jewish" as not for us. Jesus and the Apostle Paul were, in fact Jews, so I disgree with the extreme of Bullinger's 'difference.' I cannot help BUT accept a lot of 'Jewish' attached to my Christianity.

                      Originally posted by Idolater View Post
                      Paul also wrote about Communion, about the bread and the cup, writing to a church in Corinth, a Gentile city, with some dispersed Jews but a Gentile city and a Gentile assembly, and he wrote about Communion as if the Corinthian church was celebrating it.
                      Agree. There is evidence that the 7 churches were not all Jewish either. I'd want to ensure my theology was conclusive, but I do believe Grace alone saves us.

                      Now as I'm sure you're aware, there are elements of MAD who teach against going to church weekly, and against celebrating Communion, with the same basic reasoning as you give with "a Christian Jew's mail".
                      Right, there are different types of Mid and Late Acts believers and you have to know which ones you are talking with. Some are barely past the 2nd Acts (Dispensationalists) and some are at the other end of the extreme where nothing "Jewish" is for them.

                      Right. Like, MAD would say that when Christ teaches us to, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God", that that's not for the Body of Christ. Even though Acts records Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, teaching the kingdom of God.
                      Once discussion becomes difficult, even among Mid Acts one, to another, it is, if I'm correct, well 'within' Mid Acts discussion. I know a lot of Mid Acts disagree with Bullinger, for instance.


                      Well that's good.
                      It is. So many 'authoritative' people can leave the job of brow-beating to God and I've been pleased to not have to be a liaison between them and the Holy Spirit to another person. I don't need that headache.

                      One thing I would expect to see if indeed any of the New Testament is "Jewish mail" is something about circumcision. According to MAD I would expect to see Paul teaching against circumcision (he does), and teaching for circumcision in at least one of these supposedly "Jewish mail" books (there isn't any, not a single one).
                      As far as "Jewish" mail, there is no way to read and grasp Hebrews 6:4 without realizing it isn't talking about loss of salvation, not at all. It is specifically addressing a Jewish problem (that doesn't exist today, but did then), of offering two sacrifices for sin, one the Lord Jesus Christ, and two, the presentation at the temple.

                      Agreed in concept, though we probably disagree in content.
                      Probably not, because I may have some inkling, but am 'wait and see' as I am with almost all eschatology.

                      Originally posted by Idolater View Post
                      What's your thought on the institution of the office of bishop? Paul mentions the office, and wrote to two bishops that he personally consecrated, and taught one of them to continue the practice of teaching and consecrating new bishops, so that the office would continue. Also, Peter addressed this same group of authentic pastors, calling them elders. Whether they are elders, or overseers, or bishops, they are of Apostolic origin, including Paul, and not just Paul.
                      A bishop is simply the keeper of doctrine, thus any denomination that adheres to theology is in line and 'fall under' the teaching and doctrine. I can never be Catholic because I believe strongly they've a lot of Judaized doctrine and structure, especially concerning 'playing Holy Spirit' in another's life. There is no mark of Christianity but the Holy Spirit dwelling within His own. The 'fruit' is encouraged, but in no way 'qualified' by any but Christ. We do not judge Another Man's servant. He/she stands before his/her Maker, not me or anybody else in 'supposed' authority. The RC, interposes often between in all of its practice (different discussion, different thread).
                      My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                      Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                      Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                      Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                      No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                      Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                      ? Yep

                      Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                      ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                      Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lon View Post
                        I understand. I've read a bit of MAD that I don't agree with (Bullinger, for instance), but a man I respect, with a seminary degree, told me I was well 'within' the Grace movement (grace alone) and within acceptable parameters of Mid Acts teaching 'so as to be indistinguishable." I do often agree with Mid Acts on many things and I also believe their instructions for reading the word of God are best for anyone to grasp the meaning of scriptures, but I'm unsure if it actually makes me Mid Acts. Likely just very sympathetic.
                        To REPEAT for everyone's benefit: Bullinger is NOT MAD.

                        So please quit referring to his Acts 28 position as MAD... it's NOT.
                        Last edited by Right Divider; July 30, 2020, 12:17 PM.
                        All of my ancestors are human.
                        Originally posted by Squeaky
                        That explains why your an idiot.
                        Originally posted by God's Truth
                        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                          To REPEAT for everyone's benefit: Bullinger is NOT MAD.

                          So please quit referring to his Acts 28 position as MAD... it's NOT.
                          Thanks. "Hyperdispensationalism?"
                          My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                          Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                          Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                          Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                          No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                          Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                          ? Yep

                          Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                          ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                          Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lon View Post

                            Thanks. "Hyperdispensationalism?"
                            You're welcome.

                            I don't really like that term either, as many Acts 2 folks like to call MAD "Hyperdispensationalism".

                            That's why I simply refer to Bullinger's position as "Acts 28".
                            All of my ancestors are human.
                            Originally posted by Squeaky
                            That explains why your an idiot.
                            Originally posted by God's Truth
                            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

                              You're welcome.

                              I don't really like that term either, as many Acts 2 folks like to call MAD "Hyperdispensationalism".

                              That's why I simply refer to Bullinger's position as "Acts 28".
                              Appreciate the input
                              My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                              Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                              Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                              Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                              No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                              Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                              ? Yep

                              Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                              ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                              Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                              Comment

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