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What is the best explanation for Polystrate Fossils?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    • No... science simply means knowledge. Natural science is the study of the natural world. There are other non-natural sciences... like the science of logic. You cannot find logic in the material world.
    • Ask Stripe, I didn't say anything about it.
    You asked me if I knew stripe's 3 things required to make rock, I said no, I thought perhaps you knew. If you do please tell me, if you don't then tell me that as well

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post

      You asked me if I knew stripe's 3 things required to make rock, I said no, I thought perhaps you knew.
      No, I didn't. Read the posts more carefully. You might be referring to Judge Rightly.

      Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post
      If you do please tell me, if you don't then tell me that as well
      I was not involved in that topic and had no interest in being involved in that topic.

      All of my ancestors are human.
      Originally posted by Squeaky
      That explains why your an idiot.
      Originally posted by God's Truth
      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
        • No... science simply means knowledge. Natural science is the study of the natural world. There are other non-natural sciences... like the science of logic. You cannot find logic in the material world.
        • Ask Stripe, I didn't say anything about it.
        Yeah, sorry, got you confused with someone else re stripe's 3 rock forming methods.

        I'm not going to play a semantic game with you. If you wish to define "science" as knowledge then there can be a "science" of anything. Woodworking, as I sit at a wooden table, and broadly defined you are correct. But that is simply a word game. I take "science" with a more restrictive definition. I take it to be the study of the natural world. I have no idea whether you can find "logic" in the material world, nor do I care at the moment to become embroiled in some philosophical discussion. It is clear, that the natural sciences if you will, do not support your version of the earth's history.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post

          Yeah, sorry, got you confused with someone else re stripe's 3 rock forming methods.

          I'm not going to play a semantic game with you. If you wish to define "science" as knowledge then there can be a "science" of anything.
          That's not "my definition", it's actually what the word means.

          Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post
          Woodworking, as I sit at a wooden table, and broadly defined you are correct. But that is simply a word game. I take "science" with a more restrictive definition.
          Indeed, you've tried to limit science to only the material world so that you can "win" the argument.

          Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post
          I take it to be the study of the natural world.
          So you do not believe that logic is a valid science?

          How about mathematics? Is that not "real science"? You cannot find mathematics in the material world either.

          Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post
          I have no idea whether you can find "logic" in the material world, nor do I care at the moment to become embroiled in some philosophical discussion.
          It is best that you avoid rational discussion, otherwise your ideas are exposed for the broken mess that they really are.

          Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post
          It is clear, that the natural sciences if you will, do not support your version of the earth's history.
          That is a claim that you cannot support. Otherwise you might have actually tried.

          All of my ancestors are human.
          Originally posted by Squeaky
          That explains why your an idiot.
          Originally posted by God's Truth
          Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
          Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
          (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

          1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
          (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

          Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

          Comment


          • #80
            Sorry RD but discussing science with someone who must trust a Holy Scripture no matter what and who buys Walt Brown's fantasy is doomed from the start because your side needs no evidence for Scripture (other than the self serving document itself--no matter what the particular religious document is) and Brown ignores evidence to lend support to a few Bible verses and makes up the rest.
            Have a nice life, wear a mask

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post
              Sorry RD but discussing science with someone who must trust a Holy Scripture no matter what and who buys Walt Brown's fantasy is doomed from the start because your side needs no evidence for Scripture (other than the self serving document itself--no matter what the particular religious document is) and Brown ignores evidence to lend support to a few Bible verses and makes up the rest.
              Typical... you cannot discuss facts that therefore must throw out nonsense like that.

              You love to give your opinions, but when actually asked to discuss details you run away like a scared chicken.

              Should you ever grow up and like to discuss science, I'm here.

              Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post
              Have a nice life, wear a mask
              Thanks so much.
              All of my ancestors are human.
              Originally posted by Squeaky
              That explains why your an idiot.
              Originally posted by God's Truth
              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Jonahdog View Post
                Sorry RD but discussing science with someone who must trust a Holy Scripture no matter what and who buys Walt Brown's fantasy is doomed from the start because your side needs no evidence for Scripture (other than the self serving document itself--no matter what the particular religious document is) and Brown ignores evidence to lend support to a few Bible verses and makes up the rest.
                Have a nice life, wear a mask
                Bye.

                Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                E≈mc2
                "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                -Bob B.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Stripe View Post

                  Bye.

                  Ohhh, stripe, before I go will you please tell me the 3 things required to make rock you mentioned earlier. I dont know how I can go on without that important information.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Alate_One View Post
                    Actually I was going to bring up something completely different, but that works too.
                    But it doesn't work. If you try and get sand at a high angle on land, it doesn't get set as a continent sized layer with many layers over the top of it.

                    You think the flood was magic water that rose on the earth and disappeared by a miracle if it were the global flood that happened ~4000 years ago. But it wasn't. There was a great deal of fast moving water over large flats. And as large flumes show, layers of sand with steep angles is common in that situation.

                    So it would be a good idea to bring up something completely different.

                    First thing is layers of sediment that later turn into rock can be formed rapidly.
                    Only under certain conditions. Those conditions are not continent wide these days, and would only be available in a global flood.

                    That's the DUH part of the Talk Origins link.
                    Talk Origins are more often than not grade-school level arguments, but let's see the link.

                    Fast forming layers = polystrate fossils.
                    And don't forget, these are layers that are continent sized layers. One layer on top of another adding up to many hundreds of feet thick quickly, based on the evidence of the weight..

                    The logical step you're failing is that assuming because certain kinds of layers can form rapidly, ALL kinds of layers must only form rapidly.
                    Where did you get that idea? I only say the layers that formed rapidly are the ones that are large, well demarcated, had the correct conditions to form rock relatively quickly, and are connected via the evidence of their weight.

                    I'm sure we can find some layers somewhere that don't fit that set. We can look at those if you can find them.

                    And that clearly does not follow, unless of course you've decided the world must be 6000 years old a priori.
                    You forget I used to be a deep time believer. But the science of layers (and all kinds of other science fields) required I change my mind to young earth if I wanted to be honest about where the evidence lead.

                    The problem with this idea are the many layers of sediment that aren't formed by floods or volcanoes but from biological organisms. In many parts of the midwestern USA, we have limestone. And much of that limestone is made of dead organisms. And not just any organisms, dead organisms that don't exist anymore to any appreciable degree (stalked crinoids for an example), layer upon layer upon layer of them. There are old mansions in the area built of essentially solid layers of dead crinoids. Did THOSE layers form all at once?
                    I don't know. How wide is this layer you are talking about? The one that the mansion is built from?

                    [/quote]No of course not, because you can't grow that many living organisms all at once and then kill them all at once to make feet of dead critter sediment all at once. They would have to be growing on top of one another in layers already and crinoids are filter feeders so that's not likely to happen. Same thing with the layers of chalk scattered across the world etc. The biggest blooms of the microorganisms that form them create millimetres of chalk (at best) if killed all at once and yet we have meters of it.[/quote]
                    Ok. Let's look at one of the chalk layers and see how big it is and what else is in the layer and the layers around it.

                    There are just too many things in the world that can't happen as fast as you YECs would like, lots of things that do exist that wouldn't if there was a global flood etc.
                    So far you haven't brought up anything that couldn't be explained, scientifically, by YECs in the context of the flood. And you've refused to try and explain the evidence that shows a YE.

                    [/quote]Early YEC based scientists gave up this sort of thing over a hundred years ago. [/QUOTE]

                    And those early scientists thought Charles Lyell was correct about a number of things concerning deep time. Turned out he was wrong about a lot of them. So wrong, in fact, that the opposite turned out to be true based on later evidence. You need to update your science information out of the 1800's and into the 21st century.
                    Good things come to those who shoot straight.

                    Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                      Are there any examples of polystrate fossils forming right now? Might be a good thing to go check on...
                      I think there might be out at Mt. St. Helens. But they will show neither the wide layers or the crushing weight of 250 ft. of other layers on top of them.
                      Good things come to those who shoot straight.

                      Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Actually, they are some forming in a lake a few miles from my house, as trees in a flooded woods are being slowly buried in silt for nearly half a century.

                        This message is hidden because ...

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Yorzhik
                          I think there might be out at Mt. St. Helens. But they will show neither the wide layers or the crushing weight of 250 ft. of other layers on top of them.
                          Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                          Actually, they are some forming in a lake a few miles from my house, as trees in a flooded woods are being slowly buried in silt for nearly half a century.
                          So that's a "no". Keep us updated if you find anything.
                          Good things come to those who shoot straight.

                          Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post
                            So that's a "no". Keep us updated if you find anything.
                            Hmm, sounds like a yes to me. But I guess without a world wide floodcaused by explosions of hbomb equivalent energy release around the world for weeks we won't get any more fossils?
                            is that your position?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              By the way...

                              https://hpt.rsr.org/flipbook

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
                                Does this mean you can actually figure out what page you are on? Well, that is a step in the right direction.

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