BRXII Battle talk
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Balder
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It needs quotes around it, because the way you are using it, it doesn't mean death, it means eternal conscious torment.Nineveh said:
Read your scriptures more carefully, Nineveh. They clearly state that the dead will ALL be resurrected into new, imperishable bodies.Nineveh said:
Just ask the Bible Answer Man.
Nineveh
Merely Christian
Balder said:
"But the ... idolaters,... shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
The way I am using it, it most certainly is death. You will need to wrestle with God on this if you are unsatisfied with the definition.
I see Paul telling the believers they get to put on the imperishable (1 Cor 15), and I see God resurrecting the dead to judgement (Rev 20), but I don't see God's promise to give immortal bodies to those who reject Him. Mind sharing the verse(s)?
I'm asking you.
Nineveh
Merely Christian
I said:
That is your pagan idea of death, balder. Separation of body and soul is the first death. Eternal separation from God is the second death. Never fear, those who reject God are not promised imperishable bodies. And that is the fate of those who find themsleves willfully outside of God's presence with no hope, no salvation, no love, no joy, no kindness, no forgiveness... They will spend eternity with what they honor most.
What part of what I said is balder agreeing with?
That is your pagan idea of death, balder. Separation of body and soul is the first death. Eternal separation from God is the second death. Never fear, those who reject God are not promised imperishable bodies. And that is the fate of those who find themsleves willfully outside of God's presence with no hope, no salvation, no love, no joy, no kindness, no forgiveness... They will spend eternity with what they honor most.
logos_x said:
What part of what I said is balder agreeing with?
Balder
New member
There is no scriptural account of an additional transformation of resurrected bodies into an imperishable form after the general resurrection.
But beyond that, Nineveh, if people do not have imperishable bodies, do you think that people will then burn up until nothing is left, meaning that there time in the Lake will be limited? Or will they burn forever? And if they will burn forever, how can they do that without imperishable bodies -- or at least bodies that are MUCH stronger than our earthly ones?
But beyond that, Nineveh, if people do not have imperishable bodies, do you think that people will then burn up until nothing is left, meaning that there time in the Lake will be limited? Or will they burn forever? And if they will burn forever, how can they do that without imperishable bodies -- or at least bodies that are MUCH stronger than our earthly ones?
Nineveh
Merely Christian
Balder said:
There are no verses that tell us those in the "general resurrection" are given immortal bodies.
Their bodies are not immortal, they will rot or burn or whatever eventually. But that does not limit their torment in the lake.
The torment comes from their own stained spirits, their guilty conscience, and their hard "hearts".
PKevman
New member
Romans 3:5-8
5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.
TO SPEAK LIKE A MAN: TO SAY THAT GOD IS UNJUST IF HE INFLICTS WRATH IN JUDGMENT!
5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.
TO SPEAK LIKE A MAN: TO SAY THAT GOD IS UNJUST IF HE INFLICTS WRATH IN JUDGMENT!
PKevman
New member
John 3:18-20
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
Those practicing evil do not want to be exposed to the light because they are afraid to give up their wicked deeds. People are trapped in their sin. Christ came to deliver them from that entrapment.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
Those practicing evil do not want to be exposed to the light because they are afraid to give up their wicked deeds. People are trapped in their sin. Christ came to deliver them from that entrapment.
PKevman
New member
Mark 3:28-30
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
There is much debate on what blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is. That is a debate for another thread. But the important thing here is that Universalism again is shown to be untrue based upon the very words of Jesus Christ. Not only does He say they are subject to eternal condemnation (which Universalists will argue and say it isn't eternal), but their argument FALLS APART because the text also says they will NEVER have forgivenness! Never......sounds to me like eternal just might mean eternal after all!
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
There is much debate on what blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is. That is a debate for another thread. But the important thing here is that Universalism again is shown to be untrue based upon the very words of Jesus Christ. Not only does He say they are subject to eternal condemnation (which Universalists will argue and say it isn't eternal), but their argument FALLS APART because the text also says they will NEVER have forgivenness! Never......sounds to me like eternal just might mean eternal after all!
Nineveh
Merely Christian
PastorKevin said:
Either way, where balder is concerned, he will find out first hand.
I created a new thread to discuss immoral bodies over in the Christian forum if you wanna
PKevman
New member
Psalm 28:3-5
3 Do not drag me away with the wicked, with those who do evil,
who speak cordially with their neighbors
but harbor malice in their hearts.
4 Repay them for their deeds
and for their evil work;
repay them for what their hands have done
and bring back upon them what they deserve.
5 Since they show no regard for the works of the LORD
and what his hands have done,
he will tear them down
and never build them up again.
He will NEVER build the wicked back up again once they are torn down. Sorry Universalism you are shown to be false by the light of God's Word.
3 Do not drag me away with the wicked, with those who do evil,
who speak cordially with their neighbors
but harbor malice in their hearts.
4 Repay them for their deeds
and for their evil work;
repay them for what their hands have done
and bring back upon them what they deserve.
5 Since they show no regard for the works of the LORD
and what his hands have done,
he will tear them down
and never build them up again.
He will NEVER build the wicked back up again once they are torn down. Sorry Universalism you are shown to be false by the light of God's Word.
Balder
New member
I was sure I spotted a disagreement. Thanks for confirming it!Nineveh said:Either way, where balder is concerned, he will find out first hand.
I created a new thread to discuss immoral bodies over in the Christian forum if you wanna
You all lecture us for not following the "true book" and then can't even agree on fundamental beliefs...
:nono:
Balder
New member
So, Nineveh, since you do not agree that the bodies of unbelievers will exist forever in the Lake of Fire, but may "burn up" or "rot away," then you apparently believe in the Greek (rather than Hebrew) notion of a disembodied soul which is inherently immortal?Nineveh said:Balder, a minor disagreement amongst men about a detail doesn't save you from the Lake. Only Christ can do that.
And since your same post was deleted over there, let me issue your first warning over here
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