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  • #31
    Originally posted by xavier47
    Hello, I'm new here the name's Xavier... I'll add my $.02 to this debate and go back to hiding...

    It seems to me that the majority of folks here believe that the Cross was some sort of contigent plan in the case that things didn't pan out exactly the way that God wanted them to... For me, to believe that God kind of rolled the dice and see what happens in each person's life is ludicrous... To believe that God set up Adam and Eve in the Garden and not know they were going to disobey Him is ludicrous... To believe that God created humanity knowing full well that the majority would reject Christ and send them to eternal damnation for it is ludicrous... You go, Logos_X! I'm with you!
    God knew they were going to eat from the tree? Okay, so then, why did God tell them not to?
    sigpic

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Just Tom
      Eternal life is the result of God creating Adam and breathing His Spirit into him. If we just live and die with no eternal soul then Jesus really didn't need to die now did he. Since when we die we die and thus it matters not what we do here. But since we already have eternal life where we will spend it is of great importance to God which is why he went to such great lengths to make a way for us to have a relationship with him. If that isn't true then none of it really matters and those that die without God just die and then only those who accept Jesus will live forever. This then destroys your contention that all will make it to heaven after a period of punishment/correction like a really good spanking.

      Your perception of God and man is one of the reason your theology is so whacked..

      Once one proves that man has eternal life already an eternal soul then your argument that the word doesn't mean eternal crumbles like a sandcastle at high tide..
      Don't you believe God when He said, "you will surely die" (Gen 2:17 )Or do you believe the lie Satan told Eve, "You surely will not die ! (Gen 3:4)?

      Paul says, Jesus is the only one who has immortaily.

      who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion ! Amen. ( 1 Timothy 6:16)

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Lighthouse
        God knew they were going to eat from the tree? Okay, so then, why did God tell them not to?
        Nope - you tell me how is it God needs a contitgency plan... Then He's not all-knowing? Is He God, then?

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        • #34
          that's CONTINGENCY

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Kimberlyann
            Don't you believe God when He said, "you will surely die" (Gen 2:17 )Or do you believe the lie Satan told Eve, "You surely will not die ! (Gen 3:4)?

            Paul says, Jesus is the only one who has immortaily.
            Yes they will die physically! and spiritually their relationship with God will be destroyed.

            It is in Jesus that we find eternal life with God not eternal life itself since as PK showed Jesus will send those not found in the book of life into the lake of fire for eternity. If they don't already have eternal life then it is a hard question as to why God would suddenly give them eternal life just to torment them for all of eternity. That doesn't make any sense as to how God portrays Himself in the bible. The only way it makes sense is that we already have an eternal soul/spirit so God had to do something. Since we are created in the image of God in his likeness and he is eternal so why wouldn't we be..?

            Logos is getting his butt kicked right now.. he has all those quotes and some don't seem to mean what he thinks they mean..

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            • #36
              Originally posted by xavier47
              Nope - you tell me how is it God needs a contitgency plan... Then He's not all-knowing? Is He God, then?

              Yes!

              Why wouldn't he be?

              If he doesn't know what I am going to do tomorrow how does that make him less HOLY and righteous?

              He says in the bible that they sacrificed their children to moelec and it never entered his mind that they would do such a thing.. So how is he less God because he didn't think up all the different evil things that man would do?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Just Tom
                Yes they will die physically! and spiritually their relationship with God will be destroyed.

                It is in Jesus that we find eternal life with God not eternal life itself since as PK showed Jesus will send those not found in the book of life into the lake of fire for eternity. If they don't already have eternal life then it is a hard question as to why God would suddenly give them eternal life just to torment them for all of eternity. That doesn't make any sense as to how God portrays Himself in the bible. The only way it makes sense is that we already have an eternal soul/spirit so God had to do something. Since we are created in the image of God in his likeness and he is eternal so why wouldn't we be..?

                Logos is getting his butt kicked right now.. he has all those quotes and some don't seem to mean what he thinks they mean..
                Oh, Lord...you give them eyes and they cannot see!

                "If they don't already have eternal life then it is a hard question as to why God would suddenly give them eternal life just to torment them for all of eternity."

                We don't have eternal life unless God gives it to us, Tom. It's a gift.

                The only reason you think I'm getting my butt kicked is because you believe you have an indestructible soul.
                You won't find that in scripture anywhere!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by logos_x
                  Oh, Lord...you give them eyes and they cannot see!

                  "If they don't already have eternal life then it is a hard question as to why God would suddenly give them eternal life just to torment them for all of eternity."

                  We don't have eternal life unless God gives it to us, Tom. It's a gift.

                  The only reason you think I'm getting my butt kicked is because you believe you have an indestructible soul.
                  You won't find that in scripture anywhere!
                  "Fear not he who can kill the flesh, but fear he who can kill both the flesh and the soul"... AHHH haaaa So the soul needs to be kill after the body is dead since it lives on.. So your entire premise is dead. You are getting smoked but you don't even have the eyes to see that do you? He gives us eternal life with Him in paradise if we chose it. If we don't then it is the LAKE OF FIRE buddy...

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Just Tom
                    "Fear not he who can kill the flesh, but fear he who can kill both the flesh and the soul"... AHHH haaaa So the soul needs to be kill after the body is dead since it lives on.. So your entire premise is dead. You are getting smoked but you don't even have the eyes to see that do you? He gives us eternal life with Him in paradise if we chose it. If we don't then it is the LAKE OF FIRE buddy...
                    So...you believe in eternal death...annihilation?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Just Tom
                      Yes!

                      Why wouldn't he be?

                      If he doesn't know what I am going to do tomorrow how does that make him less HOLY and righteous?

                      He says in the bible that they sacrificed their children to moelec and it never entered his mind that they would do such a thing.. So how is he less God because he didn't think up all the different evil things that man would do?
                      OK, so Christ knew that Peter was going to deny Him, yet He generally does not know the evil in men's hearts? He created evil! How does it surprise Him? This openness theology thing really does the Lord a disservice...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by logos_x
                        So...you believe in eternal death...annihilation?
                        Don't think I know what you mean! What is your definition of these Ideas?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Just Tom
                          Don't think I know what you mean! What is your definition of these Ideas?
                          "Fear not he who can kill the flesh, but fear he who can kill both the flesh and the soul" clearly negates a soul that cannot be killed.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by xavier47
                            OK, so Christ knew that Peter was going to deny Him, yet He generally does not know the evil in men's hearts? He created evil! How does it surprise Him? This openness theology thing really does the Lord a disservice...
                            If I go out and walk down the street in my town with a sign that says

                            REPENT
                            OR GO
                            TO
                            HELL


                            I can predict that in 5 min I will have 3 people stop and tell me I am a nut. Do I need to have absolute foreknowledge to do this? No I don't..

                            Did Jesus need absolute foreknowledge to know that Peter would be thinking of his own life and be afraid for it and not want to get the punishment that he sees Jesus getting from the crowd. NO he didn't he knew that Peters faith was not that strong yet but it became stronger once he saw the risen savior..

                            It isn't that difficult..

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                            • #44
                              Hey folks... try to remember that this thread is for discussing the posts in BRXII. If you have rabbit trails you want to go down, start a different thread.
                              Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
                              TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by logos_x
                                "Fear not he who can kill the flesh, but fear he who can kill both the flesh and the soul" clearly negates a soul that cannot be killed.

                                Didn't say the soul couldn't be killed I said it lives on after the body dies! Thus your idea that God needs to suddenly give you life again just to torment you for eternity is false..

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