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  • #76
    Originally posted by PastorKevin
    Do you really believe this Kimberly?
    Isaiah 45:7Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'
    Calvin: (after a long pause) I can’t tell if that’s funny or really scary.
    Anti-Death

    2024 Life by Delmar: Homosexuality legal in all states; Government healthcare with abortion; Outlawing Bible by broadcast by hate crime laws

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Knight
      It can represent both.

      God often describes multiple concepts within one passage, He is a master of words. Ignoring that fact will cause you to miss massive "awe-inspiring" parts of God's word.
      Unless, of course, a potential multiplicity in concept represents liberal thinking, in which
      case its just bad theologizing. Am I right?

      1 John 4:7-8 "Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love."

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Memento Mori
        Isaiah 45:7Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'
        Psalm 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
        1 John 4:7-8 "Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love."

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        • #79
          Originally posted by PastorKevin
          Do you really believe this Kimberly?

          Its in the Bible.

          Don't you believe it?



          Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid ? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6)
          I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isa 45:7)
          Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. (Isa. 54:16)

          Do you believe that good and evil are both in the tree of knowledge?

          If so, wouldn't that tell you that both good and evil share the same root source?

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Dave Miller
            Unless, of course, a potential multiplicity in concept represents liberal thinking, in which
            case its just bad theologizing. Am I right?

            Not to be harsh but I think the verse speaks for itself unless someone is being willfully ignorant.
            Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
            TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Lighthouse
              Okay, let's go over this again. They choose to reject God. Well, there's no place else to go at that point. So, by choosing to reject God, they have indeed chosen to go to hell. Because there is no other choice.

              But I will agree with you that it's pretty insane to choose to reject God.
              Yes...lets go over it again, to begin with you talked about God "allowing" people to go to the lake of fire as if it would have been a person's choice, you now state that its because people have willingly chosen to reject God as if they 'know' that a literal hell is the choice that they've made....which of course isnt the case at all as you must well know, if any person knew for a fact that a decision or lack of one would result in agonising unending suffering then they'd act accordingly and make the right choice to avoid that....I happen to believe that all people will come to a knowledge of the truth, we're all just people and i sure dont claim credit for being able to repent or believe - in different circumstances I might well have gone down a different path, we're not robots or infallible beings and we make mistakes.....and the gamut of different offshoots even within Christianity can be pretty confusing, at the end of the day your belief system says that God forces people into a place of torment, they only have one chance to choose and then its game over.......i think God has a better plan in place than to pointlessly torment the majority of his creation just in order to make people suffer, either way it wouldnt be a case of god 'alowing' people to walk of their own free will into a fiery pit would it....?
              "Either these curtains go or I do...."

              - Oscar Wilde on deathbed

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              • #82
                Originally posted by red77
                Yes...lets go over it again, to begin with you talked about God "allowing" people to go to the lake of fire as if it would have been a person's choice, you now state that its because people have willingly chosen to reject God as if they 'know' that a literal hell is the choice that they've made....which of course isnt the case at all as you must well know, if any person knew for a fact that a decision or lack of one would result in agonising unending suffering then they'd act accordingly and make the right choice to avoid that....I happen to believe that all people will come to a knowledge of the truth, we're all just people and i sure dont claim credit for being able to repent or believe - in different circumstances I might well have gone down a different path, we're not robots or infallible beings and we make mistakes.....and the gamut of different offshoots even within Christianity can be pretty confusing, at the end of the day your belief system says that God forces people into a place of torment, they only have one chance to choose and then its game over.......i think God has a better plan in place than to pointlessly torment the majority of his creation just in order to make people suffer, either way it wouldnt be a case of god 'alowing' people to walk of their own free will into a fiery pit would it....?
                The word of God tells us that they know, whether they admit it or not. And, do you really believe that no one will know the only two choices when they are finally face to face with God? Honestly?

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Lighthouse
                  The word of God tells us that they know, whether they admit it or not. And, do you really believe that no one will know the only two choices when they are finally face to face with God? Honestly?
                  The word of God doesnt say that people know they have a destiny of excruciating torment if they dont make the right choice based on blind faith! I think the passage you refer to means that people may know inside that God is there but thats hardly the same thing - eternal torment isnt part of that equation...

                  As to your last sentence what do you mean with this? obviously if someone is face to face with God then if they were given the choice of being with God or apart from him then they'd hardly pick the latter, I doubt anyone would or could....but you dont believe they'll have that choice by then do you? You believe that when it comes to the final knowledge of the truth its being carted off to hell and then the lake of fire......Do you see any point in tormenting people for no constructive purpose at all but just to cause immense suffering to helpless beings as being part of God's ultimate divine plan? Honestly?
                  "Either these curtains go or I do...."

                  - Oscar Wilde on deathbed

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Knight
                    Not to be harsh but I think the verse speaks for itself unless someone is being willfully ignorant.
                    Thanx to TOL, my skin is pretty thick, so no worries

                    Not willfully ignorant, just trying to get the logical connection here.

                    "Plain reading" indicates that ol' Zeke had a particular issue with the prince of Tyre,
                    and probably did view him as a Satanic figure.

                    Perhaps another way to look at it would be to say that Ezekial had a particular
                    understanding of what Satan was all about when he wrote this, and as such he
                    projected this understanding onto the Price of Tyre, who was viewed as a really
                    bad person.

                    From the inspired point of view, the same could be said, God's description of Satan
                    was projected through Ezekial onto the prince of Tyre, thus revealing details about the
                    nature of Satan through the projection.

                    OK, I'm with you on this, not necessarily in agreement, but the connection makes sense.

                    Contextual consistancy would still dictate that if Tyre represents Satan, the other
                    nations must also represent some characters of the time. Like in Dante's Inferno
                    or Gullivers Travels, each character represents somebody known in some way by the
                    author. It wouldn't make sense for Ezekial to project a particular character onto
                    one nation and not the others.

                    Dave
                    1 John 4:7-8 "Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love."

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                    • #85
                      Battle Royale XII Pre Game Thread

                      Oh and by the way.... lets do our best in this thread to STAY ON TOPIC. I want to make sure we are discussing the content of Battle Royale XIII and not getting off an tangents that are unrelated.

                      Thanks

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Ranana_Kayano View Post
                        Oh and by the way.... lets do our best in this thread to STAY ON TOPIC. I want to make sure we are discussing the content of Battle Royale XIII and not getting off an tangents that are unrelated.

                        Thanks
                        The two and a half year response :squint:
                        sigpic

                        .....O LORD my God, in You I put my trust. Psalm 7:1
                        .....To You, O LORD, I lift up my soul.
                        Psalm 25:1

                        Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. ~ Leo Buscaglia

                        The best portion of a person’s life -- are the little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and love. ~ William Wordsworth

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                        • #87
                          :squint:

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                          • #88
                            That was weid.
                            Funny how threads morph.


                            For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


                            "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

                            __.._

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                            • #89
                              What was weid?
                              Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                              E≈mc2
                              "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                              "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                              -Bob B.

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                              • #90
                                Fire!

                                Originally posted by Poly View Post
                                Battle Royale XII: Will unbelievers spend eternity in the Lake of Fire?
                                pastorkevin vs. logos_x



                                Battle starts Monday, December 11, 2006.


                                Discussion on the upcoming battle can be done here.
                                Yes, unbelievers will be consumed into fire and cease to exist as separate entities before God. Our's is a loving God. Once we pledge our troth to him he does not forsake us. Our's is a merciful God. No doubt, unbelievers will be given opportunity to see the light if they were denied that opportunity during their lifetimes. Our's is a forgiving God. We are finite sinners. We fall short of our God-given abilities, but, with a contrite heart, we are forgiven. We, believers, shall dwell in the presence of our God. As you can see I do not exactly espouse either option. peace, bybee

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