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  • the POST GAME SHOW - Battle Royal I

    OK "Battle Royale I" is over!

    What are your thoughts?

    Who did the best job in presenting their case?

    Was your mind changed in any way?

    Was it fun???
    33
    Freak
    45.45%
    15
    me again
    54.55%
    18
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  • #2
    A GOOD FIGHT

    It was exhausting.

    While you were watching, you may have been thinking ”he should say this!” or ”he should say that!” But when you get in the ring, 10 rounds is a long ways to go.

    I found it to be rewarding, as well as difficult.
    • Pre-fight photo of me again:
    • Post-fight photo of me again: (looking a little roughed up, eh?)
    I look forward to seeing some good arguments in the future. I think it’s a very good idea. However, I'm throwing in the gloves.
    Last edited by me again; July 12th, 2002, 07:19 PM.

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    • #3
      It was definately fun but my mind has not really changed. I think it was a great idea.

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, it was interesting to say the least. Or the most. I'm looking forward to something a bitmore serious in the next round of battles.

        Comment


        • #5
          I want to know why Freak didn't use Hebrews 11:6 (unless I missed it). Supports his point as well as John 8.

          Michael
          Last edited by themuzicman; July 14th, 2002, 05:40 PM.
          I don't care how systematic your theology is, until you show me how biblical it is.

          2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

          Comment


          • #6
            Freak was using someone elses argument so he probably never considered it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Wish I could have been here for it. I hope both you guys are nursing your wounds and have access to heating pads and ice and such.
              "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

              --Ben Franklin

              Comment


              • #8
                Hebrews 11:6 says this:
                • But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

                There is nothing here which requires us to believe that God consists of one person, two persons, three persons - or any other number of persons, for that matter - in order to be saved.

                The NIV makes this absolutely clear:
                • And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

                Hebrews 11:6 wouldn't have helped Freak in any way at all.

                Oh, and just for the record, his wild forays into John 8 were a complete waste of time.
                Last edited by Evangelion; July 15th, 2002, 02:38 PM.
                Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus,
                Dominus Deus Sabaoth.
                Pleni sunt coeli et terra gloria tua.


                Comment


                • #9
                  It seems to me, that under Freaks conclusion, no one before John 8 could be saved. Did all, whom we consider old testaments saints die lost? Is there an Old Testament verse, which parallels John 8 (as believed by Freak), which required the Old Testaments saints to believe that the MESSIAH was GOD in order to be saved? Peace, but not yet.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey, great point!
                    Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus,
                    Dominus Deus Sabaoth.
                    Pleni sunt coeli et terra gloria tua.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      • Posted by Evangelion
                        Snip...
                        Oh, and just for the record, his wild forays into John 8 were a complete waste of time.
                      Yes, you're right.

                      But since he raised the issue and, more importantly, since he really believes it, I felt obliged to address it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MARANATHA2002
                        It seems to me, that under Freaks conclusion, no one before John 8 could be saved. Did all, whom we consider old testaments saints die lost? Is there an Old Testament verse, which parallels John 8 (as believed by Freak), which required the Old Testaments saints to believe that the MESSIAH was GOD in order to be saved? Peace, but not yet.
                        The Old Testement saints were under the Mosaic law and sacrifices, and were specifically seeking the Messiah spoken of repeatedly in the Old Testement. Isaiah confirms the identity of the Messiah as "Almighty God" and "the everlasting Father". It's pretty clear they they knew.

                        Michael
                        I don't care how systematic your theology is, until you show me how biblical it is.

                        2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Why not have Questions Submitted in another thread and

                          Vote on which one is the Most Important to Discuss ?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Muzicman, how are you

                            I am assuming you are referring to Isaiah 9:6. Though this verse is a good verse to support the trinity, I do not believe it answers the criteria as Freak asserts. I agree with what the verse claims, MESSIAH/JESUS is GOD THE FATHER, but it does not say one must believe the MESSIAH is GOD to be saved. The point I am trying to make is, before any of the books of the Bible were written, what did the people believe that saved them eternally? Was it you must believe that Messiah was GOD, or that HE simply was coming to take the sins of the world away, and put there faith in that promise. It is easy to get caught up in “you have to believe this and you have to believe that” when we have the recorded word of GOD, but what of those before the books were written. I do believe a study of the scriptures should and will teach the deity of CHRIST, but you will have to have the recorded word to come to that conclusion, and the Old Testament saints before the books were written did not have our luxury.

                            The author of Genesis is believed to be Moses. He wrote about the past history of the earth from creation to his time. In Genesis Chapter 1 we can read the promise of the SEED of the woman. The first recorded mentioning of the MESSIAH. This is the promise that saved all the Old Testament saints. What saved Adam and Eve, and the generations before the word was recorded, is in Genesis, not in Isaiah, John, or Hebrews. Of course this is just my opinion, and some may simply disagree. Peace, but not yet.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Isaiah 9:6 does not call Jesus "Almighty God." It calls him el gibbor, which the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon translates as "divine hero."

                              It never ceases to amaze me that Trinitarians will look at a verse and see something which isn't really there! Just goes to show how strong their preconceptions are... and now frequently these preconceptions cloud their judgement.

                              Maranatha, you wrote:

                              The author of Genesis is believed to be Moses. He wrote about the past history of the earth from creation to his time. In Genesis Chapter 1 we can read the promise of the SEED of the woman. The first recorded mentioning of the MESSIAH. This is the promise that saved all the Old Testament saints. What saved Adam and Eve, and the generations before the word was recorded, is in Genesis, not in Isaiah, John, or Hebrews. Of course this is just my opinion, and some may simply disagree. Peace, but not yet.
                              Excellent point!
                              Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus,
                              Dominus Deus Sabaoth.
                              Pleni sunt coeli et terra gloria tua.


                              Comment

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