toldailytopic: Obamacare is nearing wide-scale implementation. Are you looking forwar

[Angel4Truth]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for June 5th, 2013 10:37 AM

toldailytopic: Obamacare is nearing wide-scale implementation. Are you looking forward to it, or dreading it, and why?

Not looking forward too it, I think will it cause some insurance companies to go out of business, and a lot of companies to switch workers from full time to part time or eliminate jobs altogether to keep from having to cover employees and think it will ultimately causes taxes to go through the roof. it will create an incentive for more illegals and illegals being allowed to be on it as well and along with all those things, think the economy will ultimately tank.

 

[BBTimeless]

Question, how is this causing raises in insurance costs? I genuinely don't understand that part.

 

[Brother Vinny]

Question, how is this causing raises in insurance costs? I genuinely don't understand that part.

All I know is mine has. Probably something to do with supply and demand--you know, the economic theory that when demand on a goods or services outstrips the supply, the prices of things go up? Mandated healthcare for EVERYBODY means that everybody has access to the supply, and it stands to reason that those who have access are going to utilize it, so prices rise. Make sense?

 

[BBTimeless]

All I know is mine has. Probably something to do with supply and demand--you know, the economic theory that when demand on a goods or services outstrips the supply, the prices of things go up? Mandated healthcare for EVERYBODY means that everybody has access to the supply, and it stands to reason that those who have access are going to utilize it, so prices rise. Make sense?

A bit, I also assume since they have to accept everyone it will cost them more money. Especially with the pre-conditions being accepted. But, on the other side, wouldn't they also get more customers since they have to buy anyway? (Unless they pay the mandate fine)

 

[PureX]

Insurance costs have been going up and up and up for 30 years.

But NOW it's Obamacare's fault!

 

[BBTimeless]

Insurance costs have been going up and up and up for 30 years.

But NOW it's Obamacare's fault!

But has it gone up substantially since the introduction of Obamacare? If so, then it might very well be the cause.

 

[Brother Vinny]

A bit, I also assume since they have to accept everyone it will cost them more money. Especially with the pre-conditions being accepted. But, on the other side, wouldn't they also get more customers since they have to buy anyway? (Unless they pay the mandate fine)

Getting more customers as fine, so long as you can handle the increase. You get everyone making claims for everything from cancer to a sprained ankle, and you begin stretching resources, which means hiring more or asking your people to work more hours, which runs into money. Doctors and nurses will want to be paid more, and insurers will want to hire more people to process claims and what-not. All of this gets passed along to the customer.

 

[BBTimeless]

Getting more customers as fine, so long as you can handle the increase. You get everyone making claims for everything from cancer to a sprained ankle, and you begin stretching resources, which means hiring more or asking your people to work more hours, which runs into money. Doctors and nurses will want to be paid more, and insurers will want to hire more people to process claims and what-not. All of this gets passed along to the customer.

I follow.

 

[Ktoyou]

Most of my loot is outside the US and what is here, well, let me say, Obama would be more likely to increase, than decrease it, same as George Bush.

Oh, this Care-by-the big-O, well, it may as well be Oprah Wimpy, as I will never see any of that mess.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Question, how is this causing raises in insurance costs? I genuinely don't understand that part.

Covering people with preexisting conditions and providing coverage for people who pay nothing into the system.

 

[BBTimeless]

Covering people with preexisting conditions and providing coverage for people who pay nothing into the system.

On the one hand, it will raise costs. On the other hand, it gives a cancer patient treatment that can save his/her life. I will take that trade every time.

 

[Traditio]

You remind me of this . . .

That's about accurate. lain:

Also, the philosophy professor at my place of employment tells me the job market in his area is "very tight".

The philosophy job market is terrible. I have a substantially better shot than most other people of getting a job because I am going to a very niche Catholic school. So my chances of getting hired at a seminary or a small Catholic college is actually pretty good, so long as I'm willing to move.

For those outside of the Catholic world, unless you go to a top-tier university, your job chances are...really, really depressing.

At least some people who get Ph.D.'s in philosophy realize just how bad the job market is when they get out, and they end up going to law school.

And the video is just spot on. Even if you do get a tenure track position, the life of a professor is "public or perish." In the middle of nowhere.

 

[PureX]

But has it gone up substantially since the introduction of Obamacare? If so, then it might very well be the cause.

The cause is greed running amok in a market that can't refuse to buy the products and services being offered. All the other modern nations on the planet have solved this problem by instituting some form of price control, but our government is being controlled by the commercial entities that are raking in all profits from the mess we have now, and so will fight any effective reforms tooth and nail. So we haven't even been able to SPEAK of price controls, let alone establish any.

But everything bad that happens that is even remotely related to health care is going to be very loudly and repeatedly blamed on Obamacare, no matter what, now. So that we will have almost no way of knowing if it's helping the situation or not. Because there will be an endless stream of lies and rigged numbers and phony sanctimonious indignation, and innuendo and anecdotal 'proof' and whatever.

I personally just don't see Romney-Obamacare working very well at a national scale. I think the only real solution to our heath care mess is going to be the solution that the other nations of the world have already successfully adopted. And that's socialized health care.

 

[PureX]

But has it gone up substantially since the introduction of Obamacare? If so, then it might very well be the cause.

Let's see ... the insurance companies don't like Obamacare, but they really like making lots of money. How could they make more money and get us to blame it on Obamacare? Oh yeah! They could just raise their prices and say it's because of Obamacare! Then they could get all their cronies in Washington and the media to blame it on Obamacare, too, over and over, while they keep raising prices and blaming it on Obamacare. Wow! It's a win/win for big insurance! And for the republicans, too, who want to blame anything bad on Obama and the democrats that they can, and it's even a win for the media, who can stir up another big "controversy" to keep us all watching their newsfomercials.

We all lose, of course. But that was always going to be the aim of the game.

 

[Brother Vinny]

The cause is greed running amok in a market that can't refuse to buy the products and services being offered. All the other modern nations on the planet have solved this problem by instituting some form of price control, but our government is being controlled by the commercial entities that are raking in all profits from the mess we have now, and so will fight any effective reforms tooth and nail. So we haven't even been able to SPEAK of price controls, let alone establish any.

As soon as you start talking price controls, you start talking about paying doctors and their staff less for their skills. If doctorin' becomes a trade which loses its reputation for its ability to accrue wealth, talented minds will seek other avenues instead of medicine. If that happens, the disparity between supply and demand increases even more.

I don't know how other countries solve this particular issue, but I'd love to be educated on it.

 

[drbrumley]

Let's see ... the insurance companies don't like Obamacare, but they really like making lots of money. How could they make more money and get us to blame it on Obamacare? Oh yeah! They could just raise their prices and say it's because of Obamacare! Then they could get all their cronies in Washington and the media to blame it on Obamacare, too, over and over, while they keep raising prices and blaming it on Obamacare. Wow! It's a win/win for big insurance! And for the republicans, too, who want to blame anything bad on Obama and the democrats, and it's even a win for the media, who can stir up another big "controversy" to keep us all watching their newsfomercials.

You lose, of course. But that was always going to be the aim of the game.

Come on PureX, I have told you before to stop that myth. The insurance companies don't hate Obamacare.

50 U.S. Health Care Statistics That Will Absolutely Astonish You




This bill is almost identical to the plan written by AHIP, the insurance company trade association, in 2009.

The original Senate Finance Committee bill was authored by a former Wellpoint VP. Since Congress released the first of its health care bills on October 30, 2009, health care stocks have risen 28.35%


Oooops!

 

[Brother Vinny]

Let's see ... the insurance companies don't like Obamacare, but they really like making lots of money. How could they make more money and get us to blame it on Obamacare? Oh yeah! They could just raise their prices and say it's because of Obamacare! Then they could get all their cronies in Washington and the media to blame it on Obamacare, too, over and over, while they keep raising prices and blaming it on Obamacare. Wow! It's a win/win for big insurance! And for the republicans, too, who want to blame anything bad on Obama and the democrats that they can, and it's even a win for the media, who can stir up another big "controversy" to keep us all watching their newsfomercials.

We all lose, of course. But that was always going to be the aim of the game.

LOL, you do know Obamacare instituted salary caps for execs in insurance companies, do you not? As well as strict minimum profit margins they must maintain or else pay hefty fines.

Yeah, you know your stuff.

 

[PureX]

As soon as you start talking price controls, you start talking about paying doctors and their staff less for their skills. If doctorin' becomes a trade which loses its reputation for its ability to accrue wealth, talented minds will seek other avenues instead of medicine. If that happens, the disparity between supply and demand increases even more.

I don't know how other countries solve this particular issue, but I'd love to be educated on it.

It turns out that doctors like being doctors in all those other countries, even though they don't make as much money as doctors make in the U.S., and they still consider themselves well paid.

Maybe the refusal to placate individual greed actually serves to diminish it?

But of course those other countries have to continually adjust their price controls, so as to maintain good quality health care while minimizing costs. Most of them have been at it for nearly 30 years, now, and they have gotten it down pretty well. They are getting good care for about half of what we in the U.S. are currently paying for vary poor overall health care. (We rank 27th among the nations of the world in terms of overall quality of care, while we are paying the most for it, by far.)

 

[Alate_One]

That's about accurate. lain:

The philosophy job market is terrible. I have somewhat better shot than most other people of getting a job because I am going to a very niche Catholic school. So my chances of getting hired at a seminary or a small Catholic college is actually pretty good, so long as I'm willing to move.

For those outside of the Catholic world, unless you go to a top-tier university, your job chances are...really, really depressing.

To Nowhere, Nebraska as the video says. :chuckle: That's what I'm trying to get away from, but there are small colleges and universities in even worse places than I am now. Hope you like Alaska. O_O

I have to say though, having looked into several Catholic Universities, they don't seem to mind if you're Catholic or not. Perhaps it's different in philosophy vs. biology.

And the video is just spot on. Even if you do get a tenure track position, the life of a professor is "public or perish."

It's less stringent at smaller universities than larger ones and there are a few that are only focused on education, but you can get locked in if you go too far down that path.

As far as health care goes, I've found Catholic universities are much better providers than colleges sponsored by certain protestant denominations. Some are considered small employers so they get to use all kinds of loopholes to get out of paying for faculty.

 

[PureX]

LOL, you do know Obamacare instituted salary caps for execs in insurance companies, do you not? As well as strict minimum profit margins they must maintain or else pay hefty fines.

Yeah, you know your stuff.

But salary caps for insurance execs are not price caps on health care products and services, are they.

And drbrumley seems to think the insurance companies proposed their own salary caps and profit limits, which I seriously doubt.

I think the insurance companies were all in favor of the government forcing us to buy their health insurance, that's a government enforced monopoly - any capitalists's dream come true. But I'm sure they don't want government interference in their profit margins even more than they want a government enforced monopoly. After all, what good is the monopoly if they can't exploit it for big profits? So in the end, they would just as soon maintain the status quo, because they're already raking in record profits without Obamacare.