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  • Lighthouse
    replied
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Learn to read what is written.

    Romans 11:19-21
    19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
    20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.




    The scriptures talk about covenants and stewardship. I am in the New Covenant. There is no such thing as the old stewardship in the scriptures.


    The whole OSAS confusion over who was actually "saved" and who wasn't actually "saved".
    On the one hand, you have a person being able to commit murders with impunity because he was already "saved".
    On the other hand, you have a person that was not actually "saved" because he is committing murders.


    The parable of the Prodigal Son is about how God reacts to a sinner that repents and approaches Him humbly asking for forgiveness.
    God is willing to forgive those who confess their sins and ask for forgiveness.

    John talked about the same thing.

    1 John 1:6-10
    6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


    If we claim we are OSAS, and refuse to live righteously, we are lying.
    If we live righteously, we can rely on the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin.
    If we claim we are OSAS and that means our wicked actions is not technically sin, we are only deceiving ourselves.
    If we understand that our wicked actions are sin and confess them, He will forgive us and clean us.
    You fail to understand Paul.

    Leave a comment:


  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
    But never Paul. I wonder why that is...
    Learn to read what is written.

    Romans 11:19-21
    19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
    20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.



    Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Stuck in the old dispensation, I see.
    The scriptures talk about covenants and stewardship. I am in the New Covenant. There is no such thing as the old stewardship in the scriptures.

    Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
    What confusion?
    The whole OSAS confusion over who was actually "saved" and who wasn't actually "saved".
    On the one hand, you have a person being able to commit murders with impunity because he was already "saved".
    On the other hand, you have a person that was not actually "saved" because he is committing murders.

    Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
    And as for that last part, if true then the parable of the Prodigal Son is a lie; are you calling Jesus a liar?
    The parable of the Prodigal Son is about how God reacts to a sinner that repents and approaches Him humbly asking for forgiveness.
    God is willing to forgive those who confess their sins and ask for forgiveness.

    John talked about the same thing.

    1 John 1:6-10
    6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


    If we claim we are OSAS, and refuse to live righteously, we are lying.
    If we live righteously, we can rely on the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin.
    If we claim we are OSAS and that means our wicked actions is not technically sin, we are only deceiving ourselves.
    If we understand that our wicked actions are sin and confess them, He will forgive us and clean us.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lighthouse
    replied
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    And I believe that no one is actually saved until the resurrection.
    Until then, there is always a possibility of turning away, as Jesus and the apostles warned about over and over.
    But never Paul. I wonder why that is...

    Once someone is truly saved at the resurrection, then salvation will have become a past event instead of a promise for the future.
    Stuck in the old dispensation, I see.

    And I don't have that confusion. When someone turns away from the narrow way, they end up on the broad path that leads to destruction.
    They do not have to stay on the broad path, but can return to the narrow way and not have their name blotted out from the book of life.
    When someone apostatizes, they face the very real possibility of never being able to return to the narrow way, because they will have had their name blotted out from the book of life.
    What confusion?

    And as for that last part, if true then the parable of the Prodigal Son is a lie; are you calling Jesus a liar?

    Leave a comment:


  • IMJerusha
    replied
    Originally posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Some may not bother looking! Your message/statement is in vain, then!
    God is in Control!

    Leave a comment:


  • Grosnick Marowbe
    replied
    Originally posted by IMJerusha View Post
    I-N-T-E-R-N-E-T!!!
    Some may not bother looking! Your message/statement is in vain, then!

    Leave a comment:


  • IMJerusha
    replied
    Originally posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    You have the right to use any language you wish! However,
    you must be mindful of the fact that, some people (perhaps
    most) won't know what you're talking about! That may
    hinder your message!
    I-N-T-E-R-N-E-T!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Grosnick Marowbe
    replied
    Originally posted by IMJerusha View Post
    I grew up using both Greek and Hebrew. Why are you so bothered by my use of Hebrew? I've been led to where I am now and I'm content. I don't enforce the Sabbath, I observe it. You're sort of uneducated when it comes to Messianic Judaism but mostly, you don't know the God you claim. Very sad.
    You have the right to use any language you wish! However,
    you must be mindful of the fact that, some people (perhaps
    most) won't know what you're talking about! That may
    hinder your message!

    Leave a comment:


  • IMJerusha
    replied
    Originally posted by godrulz View Post
    I don't know God I claim? Huh? We worship the same God if you are trinitarian. The problem is that your ecclesiology is not NT biblical. You are mixing shadows/types with fulfillment in Christ.

    There is also a spectrum of beliefs within Messianic Judaism, so I cannot comment on your version.
    If one understands that God never changes, it doesn't matter if you're in the OT or the NT. The NT does not replace the OT. The fulfillment of Yeshua does not negate God and certainly doesn't replace Him. My ecclesiology is most definitely Biblical. I'm not embracing Yeshua to leave God behind.
    I'm not interested in your comments regarding the various beliefs of Messianic Judaism. They aren't pertinent to the discussion surrounding the OP. Three nights ago, you started questioning me personally about my faith expression and you haven't stopped. What's the point of that? Next thing you know, you'll be asking the name of my synagogue and griping that I call it that as opposed to "church".
    Last edited by IMJerusha; May 25th, 2013, 09:43 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • godrulz
    replied
    I don't know God I claim? Huh? We worship the same God if you are trinitarian. The problem is that your ecclesiology is not NT biblical. You are mixing shadows/types with fulfillment in Christ.

    There is also a spectrum of beliefs within Messianic Judaism, so I cannot comment on your version.

    Leave a comment:


  • IMJerusha
    replied
    Originally posted by godrulz View Post
    I use Yahweh, Yeshua, God, Adonai, Elohim, Jehovah, etc. etc., but I will not try to be Jewish when I am a Gentile. I will not bring people to Christ and then try to get them to do OT things. I have the reality of Christ and will not elevate the shadows/types that were intended for theocratic Israel, not the NT Church.

    If some think they can better reach Jews by retaining aspects of Judaism or being Messianic, go for it, but don't make this the norm in reaching North Americans, Africans, Chinese, etc.

    This does not mean we should not know about, value, and incorporate aspects of our Jewish heritage and foundation as Christians (OT is the Word of God).

    To enforce Sabbatarianism, anti-pork, circumcision, etc. is not consistent with NT revelation (which supersedes OT elementary truths). Heb. 6; Heb. 1:1-3; Col.; Romans, Galatians, etc.

    I speak English, not Hebrew. If we are going to use Hebrew phrases, why not use Koine Greek ones? YHWH is valid, but so is theos or Kurios.
    I grew up using both Greek and Hebrew. Why are you so bothered by my use of Hebrew? I've been led to where I am now and I'm content. I don't enforce the Sabbath, I observe it. You're sort of uneducated when it comes to Messianic Judaism but mostly, you don't know the God you claim. Very sad.

    Leave a comment:


  • IMJerusha
    replied
    Originally posted by godrulz View Post
    Why is a Gentile pretending to be Jewish? Hebrew is not a language from heaven. Why not spout Koine Greek or Aramaic?
    I'm not pretending to be Jewish. I freely admit that I'm a Gentile.

    Originally posted by godrulz View Post
    The Spirit does not lead contrary to His Word.
    Amen!

    Originally posted by godrulz View Post
    Be careful to not use His name in vain by claiming divine leading when it is your modern fad not supported by Scripture.
    I trust in the Ruach to guide me. I test His leading against Scripture. There is nothing about my faith expression that violates Scripture.

    Leave a comment:


  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Neither I nor glorydaz agreed that all who call themselves Christian are actually saved.

    We agreed that anyone who truly is saved cannot lose it, no matter what.
    And I believe that no one is actually saved until the resurrection.
    Until then, there is always a possibility of turning away, as Jesus and the apostles warned about over and over.

    Once someone is truly saved at the resurrection, then salvation will have become a past event instead of a promise for the future.
    Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
    And I know that when one does I question their salvation. But I question it more when they apostatize.
    And I don't have that confusion. When someone turns away from the narrow way, they end up on the broad path that leads to destruction.
    They do not have to stay on the broad path, but can return to the narrow way and not have their name blotted out from the book of life.
    When someone apostatizes, they face the very real possibility of never being able to return to the narrow way, because they will have had their name blotted out from the book of life.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grosnick Marowbe
    replied
    Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
    Some evangelicals will always interpret these scriptures as saved/lost but they are not...I think ALOT of christian who are saved do not have an awful lot of knowledge of God.
    Would that include yourself or, are you exempt?

    Leave a comment:


  • Grosnick Marowbe
    replied
    Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Neither I nor glorydaz agreed that all who call themselves Christian are actually saved.

    We agreed that anyone who truly is saved cannot lose it, no matter what. However, we never agreed that those indwelt with Christ would do those things as easily as one without Christ. And I know that when one does I question their salvation. But I question it more when they apostatize.


    Exactly.
    Good post.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lighthouse
    replied
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Matthew 15:7-8
    7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
    8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    Neither I nor glorydaz agreed that all who call themselves Christian are actually saved.

    We agreed that anyone who truly is saved cannot lose it, no matter what. However, we never agreed that those indwelt with Christ would do those things as easily as one without Christ. And I know that when one does I question their salvation. But I question it more when they apostatize.

    Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
    There you go. Well said.

    I wonder why it is that those who think someone can lose his salvation doesn't understand what living in the Spirit actually means. There isn't a believer alive who wants to sin...we've been freed from the power it had over us. When we fail, we are duly chastened as sons. "That form of doctrine" is speaking of the Gospel and believing unto salvation .

    Romans 6:17-18
    But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
    Exactly.

    Leave a comment:

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