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  • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

    Jesus said he DID NOT lose one that God gave him, AND, he will raise them---at the resurrection of the dead.
    We all too have to be saved and then will get raised from the dead at the resurrection.
    John 18:9 This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: "I have not lost one of those you gave me."



    Well, this is a difficult scripture for some. Some believe that Jesus was speaking of the time of the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, and some say it is at the end of the world. So what is your point?

    God doesn’t care if you call yourself blood related to Abraham, or if you call yourself an Israelite, see See John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God..
    So explain to me your beliefs with that knowledge.

    No way did Jesus change. The plan was made before the beginning of the world.
    1 Corinthians 2

    God’s Wisdom Revealed by the Spirit

    6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:

    “What no eye has seen,

    what no ear has heard,

    and what no human mind has conceived” —

    the things God has prepared for those who love him—

    10these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
    1 Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
    2 Timothy 1:9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
    Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

    You are the one going against me.
    You are the one who says all Jews will be saved and that Gentiles and Jews aren’t treated the same and saved the same way and same time.

    How many times do you have to be told that what he said was to the remnant Jews first, and then what he said was to all after he was crucified?
    What Jesus said when he walked the earth is the same one and only message by the one and only Lord to all, just Jews FIRST and THEN GENTILES.
    You are long worded.
    You have little substance in your long words.

    I am pretty sure the Bible makes reference to those of long words, without substance.

    Pick a topic we will dicuss that topic.

    You really make me think of,

    2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
    2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
    2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.


    When I read your Words, I think of the Above.

    Comment




    • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      No other nation on Earth is called that.
      Yes, He does.

      Multiple times throughout Scripture God tells His people that they will be His people and He will be their God.

      He doesn't make this promise to ANY OTHER NATION.
      So what?
      Jews who rejected His son are not His people.
      All who come to Him through Jesus are His people.
      When Jesus had his earthly ministry, they had to go through Jesus to remain God’s.
      God doesn’t care anymore about who is blood related to Abraham.
      Since Jesus is the blood descendant promise, it only matters who is blood related to Jesus.
      Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      WHEN!? You aren't giving me a specific point in time!
      I gave you scripture where Jesus said it was too late now. You don ‘t think what Jesus says is enough, then that is not my problem.
      Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      Why? Can you not explain your position in simple terms? You can only explain it in the abstract?

      WHEN WERE THEY CUT OFF!?

      Was it before Christ was born?

      Was it after? If so, at what point after Christ's birth were the unbelieving Jews cut off?

      Was it when He first started doing miracles? Was it when Judas betrayed Him?

      WHEN?!
      Why would it be when he first started doing miracles? Why would it be when Judas betrayed him?
      State your case.
      I gave you scriptures from the Old Testament where it was prophesied that some Jews would be cut off.
      Jesus came and during his earthly ministry he said it was too late for them.
      Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      And yet, even 28 years later, when Paul was writing Romans, they STILL had not been grafted back in again. Why not?
      ALL JEWS aren’t going to be grafted back in; only the Jews who stopped disbelieving.
      I gave you scriptures that show Jews being grafted back in, after they believed and repented.
      Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      Cornelius was saved after Paul, so that fits my position better than it does yours.
      Can you give scriptural support for that?
      In addition, show where it had anything to do with Paul.
      Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      So?
      That’s your response to what I say doesn’t help in our discussion.
      Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      This is PETER speaking about what the old testament prophets said:

      Acts 10:43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
      Did you notice that there's no mention of repentance? No mention of following a law of any sort? Just "believe in Him"?
      Jesus wouldn’t even have started his earthly ministry until the people repented of their sins. John the baptizer prepared the way.
      Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      Again, anything after Paul's conversion fits my position better than it does yours.
      Paul was saved by what Jesus and the disciples before him preached.
      Paul even went to Peter and the others to see if they preached the same.
      Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      Well, no, it wasn't prophesied.

      You CANNOT point to any single scripture in the Old Testament that says that Gentiles would be saved.
      I gave you many scriptures.
      Oh how I love the Word of God!

      Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

      Comment




      • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post

        Try again.
        So what? Paul quoted lots of Old Testament passages.
        Sorry, but that doesn't mean that it was prophesied that Gentiles would be saved. It just doesn't.
        Mere denial means nothing in anyone’s favor.
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        Sorry, but that doesn't say that Gentiles will bee saved..
        Yes it does.
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        New testament verses are not "prophecy."
        New Testament has Old Testament prophecies fulfilled.
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        So far, your 0 for 4 as far as old testament verses go that support your position.

        Would you like to try again?

        Or have you been convinced yet that your position is wrong, and you should reconsider it.
        ALL NATIONS, not just two or 12---ALL NATIONS.
        Yes, Christ came to take away the sin of the world.
        I proved with scripture that the Gentiles will be saved.
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        And?
        But you haven't answered my question.

        When were they cut off?
        Too late for what?
        They were cut off and bound to the place of the Gentiles.
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        To be grafted back in again? That makes it seem like their being cut off is final, which Paul preaches against...
        How do you ever get that it is too late for them to be grafted back in when I have been proving it to you that they can just as the Gentiles can?
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        To not be cut off? So you're saying that they still hadn't been cut off by that point in time? That they were cut off afterwards? That fits MY position.
        What?
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        Having things hidden from one's eyes is not cutting them off.
        It is.
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        If that is what you're asserting, then you need to provide evidence for that assertion.
        So what? that doesn't mean they're cut off...
        How many times did God blind or deafen (literally or figuratively) a person or group of people in scripture without needing to cut them off?

        Do you even know what it means to "cut off" something?
        Denying it won't help your position.

        WHEN did God cut off the Jews?
        Jesus says NOW it is hidden from you.
        So at that point? Or at some other point?
        Only with Israel.
        Well, no, it was based on the act of cutting off the flesh, both figuratively and literally.
        And where does the Bible say this?
        It is why there was a new covenant with Jesus Christ.
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        And yet, not a one of them have answered my question to you about WHEN God cut off the Jews.

        So how about it, GT, When did God cut off the Jews?
        Take it up with Jesus, since the scriptures he gave about it isn’t enough for you.
        Oh how I love the Word of God!

        Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Child of God View Post

          You are long worded.
          No, I am not.
          Originally posted by Child of God View Post
          You have little substance in your long words.
          You are untruthful.
          Originally posted by Child of God View Post

          I am pretty sure the Bible makes reference to those of long words, without substance.
          Yeah, and they say people like you not to talk to.
          Originally posted by Child of God View Post

          Pick a topic we will dicuss that topic.

          You really make me think of,

          2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
          2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
          2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.


          When I read your Words, I think of the Above.
          You are lost.
          Oh how I love the Word of God!

          Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ZacharyB View Post
            “And we know that God causes everything to work together
            for the good of those who love God and are called
            according to his purpose for them.” (Romans 8:28)

            These were predestined, called, justified, and glorified (8:29-30).
            Cause and effect? How can our love cause salvation when we were promised salvation before we loved by our election to be HIS heavenly Bride? How can our love cause salvation when salvation is the free gift of GOD by grace thru faith, not love?

            Perhaps these verses need another scrutiny for their meaning?
            I Champion GOD’s holiness:
            - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
            - All evil is creature-created.

            I Champion Our Free will:
            - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

              That is where debate comes into it. You give many scriptures too.

              Let's debate the scriptures, just like Paul did.
              This is the point!

              You randomly use scripture instead of understanding the big picture.

              You TRY to FORCE your story on the Bible instead of understanding it the way is really is.
              All of my ancestors are human.
              Originally posted by Squeaky
              That explains why your an idiot.
              Originally posted by God's Truth
              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                This is the point!

                You randomly use scripture instead of understanding the big picture.

                You TRY to FORCE your story on the Bible instead of understanding it the way is really is.
                That's your opinion. That is why we are to debate instead of you just giving your opinion about my beliefs. Here is a hint for you: saying I don't understand, and saying I randomly use scripture, and trying to force anything---is NOT true and your defense is to insult---which is no defense of the truth.

                It is unbelievable when one tries to say someone is randomly using scriptures. You can't do that. Jesus says you can't put any scripture aside. That is what you do when you say such things to me.
                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                  That's your opinion. That is why we are to debate instead of you just giving your opinion about my beliefs.
                  You have an opinion (I called it your "story") that you are misusing scripture to try to support. That you cannot see this is obvious.

                  Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                  Here is a hint for you: saying I don't understand, and saying I randomly use scripture, and trying to force anything---is NOT true and your defense is to insult---which is no defense of the truth.
                  Here is a hint for you: You don't understand and telling you that insults you because you cannot see it any other way.

                  Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                  It is unbelievable when one tries to say someone is randomly using scriptures. You can't do that. Jesus says you can't put any scripture aside. That is what you do when you say such things to me.
                  Blah... blah... blah...

                  God revealed new things to Paul (that's what revelation means). That you reject these things and try to mash them together is your own personal problem. You're not alone. There are many Bible masher/blenders here on TOL.

                  All of my ancestors are human.
                  Originally posted by Squeaky
                  That explains why your an idiot.
                  Originally posted by God's Truth
                  Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                  Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                  1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                  (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                  Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                    You have an opinion (I called it your "story") that you are misusing scripture to try to support. That you cannot see this is obvious.


                    Here is a hint for you: You don't understand and telling you that insults you because you cannot see it any other way.


                    Blah... blah... blah...

                    God revealed new things to Paul (that's what revelation means). That you reject these things and try to mash them together is your own personal problem. You're not alone. There are many Bible masher/blenders here on TOL.
                    Opinion, insults, putting scripture aside...will never ever be a defense.

                    You bring up Paul, as if anyone has to defend him to me.

                    Paul had the truth revealed to him just as the other disciples.

                    Paul, a toughie, someone who had people beat and put in prison, was himself strong and tough enough to spread the gospel and be beat and put in prison.
                    Oh how I love the Word of God!

                    Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                      Opinion, insults, putting scripture aside...will never ever be a defense.
                      Telling you the truth is insulting to you?
                      All of my ancestors are human.
                      Originally posted by Squeaky
                      That explains why your an idiot.
                      Originally posted by God's Truth
                      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

                        Telling you the truth is insulting to you?
                        Prove it with scripture. A person can't prove it with scripture while saying the scriptures are random.
                        Oh how I love the Word of God!

                        Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                          Prove it with scripture. A person can't prove it with scripture while saying the scriptures are random.
                          God gave Paul a gospel.... that's scripture.

                          THREE times Paul calls it "MY GOSPEL". If there was just "one gospel", as you try to say, he could NOT say that. [I know you're going to go off on your illogical excuses for that].

                          I still laugh when I recall you saying "the good news gospel".
                          All of my ancestors are human.
                          Originally posted by Squeaky
                          That explains why your an idiot.
                          Originally posted by God's Truth
                          Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                          Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                          (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                          1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                          (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                          Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post


                            I still laugh when I recall you saying "the good news gospel".
                            You said Paul was the only one who taught the good news, and that it is a different one from the one Jesus taught while he walked the earth!

                            Now that is funny.

                            Jesus IS the good news.



                            gos·pel
                            /ˈɡäspəl/

                            noun
                            1. 1.
                              the teaching or revelation of Christ.
                              "it is the Church's mission to preach the gospel"
                              Similar:
                              Christian teaching
                              Christ's teaching
                              the life of Christ
                              the word of God
                              the good news
                              Christian doctrine
                              the New Testament
                            2. 2.
                              the record of Jesus' life and teaching in the first four books of the New Testament.
                            Oh how I love the Word of God!

                            Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                            Comment


                            • Right Divider

                              Jesus is the good news and taught about himself.

                              You think a lot of things are funny and they are not.

                              Just like you have in your signature that Squeaky is dumb because he put 'your' instead of 'you're'. Out of all the dumb things Squeaky says, you put that?


                              Last edited by God's Truth; February 15, 2020, 09:35 AM.
                              Oh how I love the Word of God!

                              Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

                                God gave Paul a gospel.... that's scripture.

                                THREE times Paul calls it "MY GOSPEL". If there was just "one gospel", as you try to say, he could NOT say that. [I know you're going to go off on your illogical excuses for that].
                                Paul calls it the GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

                                Romans 15:19 by the power of signs and wonders, through the power of the Spirit of God. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.
                                1 Corinthians 9:12 If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.
                                2 Corinthians 2:12[ Ministers of the New Covenant ] Now when I went to Troas to preach the gospel of Christ and found that the Lord had opened a door for me,
                                2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.
                                2 Corinthians 10:14 We are not going too far in our boasting, as would be the case if we had not come to you, for we did get as far as you with the gospel ofChrist.
                                Galatians 1:7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervertthe gospel of Christ.
                                Philippians 1:27 [ Life Worthy of the Gospel ] Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel
                                1 Thessalonians 3:2 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and co-worker in God’s service in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith,


                                Paul also calls it OUR GOSPEL:

                                2 Corinthians 4:3 And even if our gospelis veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.

                                1 Thessalonians 1:5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.

                                2 Thessalonians 2:14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

                                Paul AND PETER call it the Gospel of God.

                                Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God
                                Romans 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
                                2 Corinthians 11:7 Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge?
                                1 Thessalonians 2:8 so we cared for you. Because we loved you so much, we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well.
                                1 Thessalonians 2:9 Surely you remember, brothers and sisters, our toil and hardship; we worked night and day in order not to be a burden to anyone while we preached the gospel of God to you.
                                1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
                                1 Thessalonians 2:2 We had previously suffered and been treated outrageously in Philippi, as you know, but with the help of our God we dared to tell you his gospel in the face of strong opposition.

                                There is only one Gospel, and it is God's Gospel, the Gospel of Christ, Paul's Gospel, and OUR GOSPEL.
                                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                                Comment

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