ECT JESUS IS GOD HIMSELF

[Nang]

Undying or not - I'm not after your support. Keep it!

Create your own thread about the Triune God. I'm not stopping you.
See the title?
This thread is about Jesus being God Himself.

I know the purpose of the thread and I do not argue against
the Deity of Christ.

My warning is against “Oneness” teaching being emphasized in some of your chosen cuts and pastes that lack proper references given to Christ fulfilling the role of Second Person of the Triune Godhead.

Your apologetics seem off balance to me but if you
are indeed a Trinitarian, it should be pleasureable for you to correct me.

 

[betsy123]

I know the purpose of the thread and I do not argue against
the Deity of Christ.

My warning is against “Oneness” teaching being emphasized in some of your chosen cuts and pastes that lack proper references given to Christ fulfilling the role of Second Person of the Triune Godhead.

Your apologetics seem off balance to me but if you
are indeed a Trinitarian, it should be pleasureable for you to correct me.

Well....if you think I don't believe in the triune God - you're mistaken. You're making an argument out of nothing. Check out the very first post I gave about Genesis 1.

FYI, I'm not here to get your validation.

This thread may seem off-balance to you....could it be because, you're not on the ball?
FOCUS.

This thread is about JESUS BEING GOD HIMSELF!


This thread is not to explain the Trinity.
I don't know why you're being so anal over that!

This thread is to show that Jesus and God are One and the Same!

I don't know if you believe that or not.
If you have any issue with that, create your own thread for it.


As for how to interpret the Trinity - TO ME, the details are not so important as long as I believe that there are 3 in one! They're all One God. Whether they're separate persons or not - is not a deal-breaker for me.
I don't make much of the details....after all, it's a mystery, isn't it?
Who can really FULLY explain it? No one!

So, I'm not going to "posture" like as if I can, quibble and argue with fellow-Christians over that!


I'm not stopping you from creating your own thread about the Triune God.
What's stopping you?
Why don't you start your own topic about it, instead of trying to derail this one?
Why? ........Can't you?


I'm new here, and I don't follow or read every thread or conversation.....so, I don't really know if you're a Christian or not.


BUT I do hope you respect my thread - especially, after being repeatedly asked - and leave it the way it was meant to be - as clearly stated in the OP.

 

[Nang]

FOCUS.

This thread is about JESUS BEING GOD HIMSELF!


This thread is not to explain the Trinity.
I don't know why you're being so anal over that!

I am concerned about the error of Sabellianism creeping into discussion under the guise of validating the Deity of Christ. It can occur through intellectual omission; whether willful or not.

Being a Trinitarian, I believe all Scriptural detail counts and holds all who confess faith in Christ accountable, to carefully handle the full Truths of God.

 

[betsy123]

I've stumbled onto this one while in a debate about something else.


John 1

18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

In verse 18, "seeing God" is meant in the sense of seeing God the Father in a physical, literal sense.
God chose to reveal Himself in certain forms in the past, but He is essentially a Spirit (John 4:24).

The gospel of John describes Jesus as the "Word" of God, using the Greek word logos.
Jesus is the message, or the definition, of God.
Words are tangible symbols of ideas, both for our eyes and our ears.

The fact that God came in human form is critical.
Jesus is a human being who experiences our struggles (Hebrews 4:15), one to whom we can relate.
Jesus is a message from God, in a language we all understand: relationship.

Jesus explains God to us in a way we could never understand otherwise.

Here, John also repeats the claim that Jesus is God.
The Greek term monogenes is used here, as well as in verse 14 and John 3:16, both for the phrase "One and Only." This word means Jesus is of the exact same "stuff" as God the Father.

https://www.bibleref.com/John/1/John-1-18.html


Not only is the relationship between Father and Son used in a language we can all understand, but there's also about the relationship between Husband/Groom and His bride (church) - that refers to love (and joy), and may also explain spiritual adultery!


Revelation 19:7
"Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."



2 Cor 12:2
For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.


Remember......

In the Old Testament, God has likened the pain inflicted by idolatry as something similar to the pain inflicted by adultery. And here is Jesus (God Himself), in the role of the Groom to His bride.


***edited: added

 

[betsy123]

continuation....


The relationship between Husband and bride shown above, has opened up another evidence
that Jesus is God Himself.



Isaiah 54:5

For thy Maker is thine husband;
the LORD of hosts is his name;
and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.





2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.



Revelation 19:7-9
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

 

[betsy123]

The following are MONOTHEISTIC Statement(s) given by GOD(Old Testament) and JESUS (New Testament), showing that they are One and The Same..


It's about THE SHEPHERD.



Ezekiel 34
God, the True Shepherd

11 ‘For thus says the Lord God: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out.
12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day.
13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel.
15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord God.
16 “I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.”



John 10
Jesus the True Shepherd

10 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.


Jesus the Good Shepherd

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.
13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.



Both are claiming to be the True Shepherd.

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE TRUE SHEPHERD.


Those who don't believe that Jesus and God are One and the Same - you've got a huge problem.
Can you tell which one is lying?

 

[Nang]

Anyone reading this thread should research the differences between the error of Modalistic Monarchianism (Sabellianism) and theologically proper teaching of biblical Trinitarianism.

 

[betsy123]

Philippians 2 (NIV)
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!




If Jesus is the very nature, God - and He is EQUAL with God - who else can He be?




Philippians 2 (NKJ)
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

 

[betsy123]

Acts 20


22 “And now, compelled by the Spirit, I am going to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there.
23 I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me.
24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the good news of God’s grace.

25 “Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again.
26 Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of any of you.
27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God.
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.
Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.




GOD HIMSELF (as man - Jesus), DIED ON THE CROSS FOR US!
Jesus is God!
It also gives the Trinity.

Also, Church of God is referred to as Church of Christ.




Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Romans 16:16
Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you.




Why would Jesus claim the Church to be His own if it's supposed to be God's?

 

[betsy123]

Philippians 2 (NIV)
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!




If Jesus is the very nature, God - and He is EQUAL with God - who else can He be?




Philippians 2 (NKJ)
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

Furthermore.....

If Jesus is not God Himself - claiming to be "EQUAL with God" - that smacks of sheer vanity!
It's a downright lie!

Jesus made claim to titles that are claimed by, and used for God! Just read them all again!

Someone who tells lies and contradicts the Scriptures...... cannot be from God.
BUT, we do know who is the master of lies and deceits, don't we?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Anyone reading this thread should research the differences between the error of Modalistic Monarchianism (Sabellianism) and theologically proper teaching of biblical Trinitarianism.

Jesus said he was the Son of God, and that Jesus and His Father were one in unity and not the same one.

Jesus was and still is a man, and the scriptures say God can not die nor can he be tempted.

God could not have been born as was the case with Jesus from Mary.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Furthermore.....

If Jesus is not God Himself - claiming to be "EQUAL with God" - that smacks of sheer vanity!
It's a downright lie!

Jesus made claim to titles that are claimed by, and used for God! Just read them all again!

Someone who tells lies and contradicts the Scriptures...... cannot be from God.
BUT, we do know who is the master of lies and deceits, don't we?

The beauty of Jesus being given His Fathers powers and titles is not because He is the Father Himself as you claim, but because Jesus obeyed His Father to the death, and His Father therefore filled His Son with Himself, though Jesus be a Man, the first born of many brethren--

1Co 15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For "HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
1Co 15:28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

LA

 

[7djengo7]

Jesus said he was the Son of God, and that Jesus and His Father were one in unity and not the same one.

"one in unity"?? Since you did NOT get that phrase from the Bible, can you please tell us where you got it from?

That's anti-Trinitarian hypocrisy on your part: "The term 'Trinity' is not found in the Bible!"

So, again, I request: Please tell us exactly from where you got your phrase, "one in unity"!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

7 djengo7 sent me a message--

Thread: JESUS IS GOD HIMSELF

You're mistaken. I know Jesus Christ. You do not know Jesus Christ, and are His enemy. I hope you may come to know Jesus Christ. Here, I am repaying you some good for the random evil you've done me.

so we know who he/she really serves don't we.

LA

 

[betsy123]

7 djengo7 sent me a message--



so we know who he/she really serves don't we.

LA

****NOTE:
Non-Trinitarians love to give arguments SEPARATELY.....they ignore the glaring fact that so many verses are intricately connected, that they corroborate and reinforce each other.

To Christians who are in debates with non-Trinitarians - all we have to do is put them right back in their corner.



Many titles that are God's have been bestowed on Jesus, and vice versa.

God has made many definitive declarations.
As an example: God does not share His glory with anyone!

Jesus had made so many claims about Himself.
He even let Thomas believe that He (Jesus), is God!

Refer to the compilation of Biblical evidence in this thread.




Let's cut to the chase. You can't keep sweeping the evidences under the rug.

In the end, you'll have to face this truth:


If Jesus is not God Himself - then, what you believe in (Jesus and the Bible), has no credibility.

Why?

Because, the Bible that you depict is full of contradictions, making Jesus and God both inconsistent....and therefore, both, unreliable.


Your belief undermines the very credibility of the Scriptures - therefore.....

..........what you believe, cannot have come from God.


You believe in a false teaching.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

****NOTE:
Non-Trinitarians love to give arguments SEPARATELY.....they ignore the glaring fact that so many verses are intricately connected, that they corroborate and reinforce each other.

To Christians who are in debates with non-Trinitarians - all we have to do is put them right back in their corner.



Many titles that are God's have been bestowed on Jesus, and vice versa.

God has made many definitive declarations.
As an example: God does not share His glory with anyone!

Isa 42:5 Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it:
Isa 42:6 "I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles,
Isa 42:7 To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the prison, Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.
Isa 42:8 I am the LORD, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.

LA

 

[betsy123]

Isa 42:5 Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it:
Isa 42:6 "I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles,
Isa 42:7 To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the prison, Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.
Isa 42:8 I am the LORD, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.

LA

Please, bring your debate here:


http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?132947-Is-Jesus-God/page27&p=5345131#post5345131


I've re-posted your attempt at rebuttal in that thread - and will respond to it there.

This thread is dedicated to evidences that show Jesus is God himself (as explained in the OP).