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God does not want all people to be saved: Romans 9:21

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  • ECT: God does not want all people to be saved: Romans 9:21

    1 Timothy 2:3-4
    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

    Basically, the above Scripture has claimed that God wants all people to be saved, but those passages are often misunderstood.

    Despite this, Romans 9:21 is a stark reminder that God had predestined the vessels unto honour and vessels unto dishonour, which means that he doesn’t want all people to be saved.

    However, I know that some of you would disagree with what I have said, but wishful thinking itself doesn’t make you right, nor does it mean that this interpretation is false.

    As indeed, there is no way that this interpretation can be false, but it can only be correct, inerrant and infallible: John 1, 7:16, 10:30, 12:49, 50.

    So you may well disagree, but what are you going to do about it?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • #2
    wishful thinking itself doesn’t make you right, nor does it mean that my interpretation is false either...Another hot air calvanist rant.
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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    • #3
      False. Only the Author of this book can provide the correct interpretation of the relevant Scripture.

      Anything which detracts from it is most definitely false.

      Ultimately, God is the Sole author of this book, but those who compiled the Bible are simply instrumental to the divine plan.

      No other interpretation can be correct except for God’s interpretation of this book.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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      • #4
        Originally posted by drbrumley View Post
        wishful thinking itself doesn’t make you right, nor does it mean that my interpretation is false either...Another hot air calvanist rant.
        EITHER implies that the 2 different interpretations are NOT mutually exclusive, which is logically impossible.

        Calvinism is the right side, but this country is on the wrong side of history.


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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        • #5
          Romans 9:21 - first does not include the word predestination ... second: the context of the verse in the not in the context of salvation.

          Greek Definition of a vessel.
          skeuos: a vessel, implement, pl. goods
          Original Word: σκεῦος, ους, τό
          Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
          Transliteration: skeuos
          Phonetic Spelling: (skyoo'-os)
          Definition: a vessel, implement, pl. goods
          Usage: a vessel to contain liquid; a vessel of mercy or wrath; any instrument by which anything is done; a household utensil; of ships: tackle.

          He is the potter - Does He have authority over both? Yes

          are there good & bad "vessels" - yes

          does God use both and/or - either good or bad vessels (instruments) to accomplish His purposes and demonstrate His power? Romans 9:21 - Yes

          Romans 9:21

          Romans 9:16

          He used the bad vessel (Pharaoh) demonstrating His power over Pharaoh (the bad vessel)

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          • #6
            "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?" (Ro.9:21;NIV).

            There are some people who think that the LORD is a Mad Potter who would make some of His vessels for the express purpose of destroying them!

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            • #7
              If one believes that there are children of the devil then you have to believe they are not going to be saved.

              You Are of Your Father the Devil
              Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
              Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
              Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
              Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
              Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
              Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
              Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
              Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
              Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

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              • #8
                Yes, IMO, God has chosen that ...
                some from all people groups will be saved.
                He needs to give a seed of faith to His chosen ones
                ... so they CAN believe the "foolish" gospel.
                Some are created for His glory, and some are not.
                In this way, the glorious ones will stand out clearly.
                These glorious ones are the ones who play the game God's way
                ... co-operating with the precious Holy Spirit
                during the process of salvation,
                while they are being sanctified unto holiness.
                IMO.
                "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
                you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
                (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
                (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by iamaberean View Post
                  If one believes that there are children of the devil then you have to believe they are not going to be saved.
                  No one is born that way:
                  "'Look,' says the Teacher, 'this is what I have discovered: Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things--while I was still searching but not finding--I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all. This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes'" (Eccl.7:25-29).

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                    No one is born that way:
                    "'Look,' says the Teacher, 'this is what I have discovered: Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things--while I was still searching but not finding--I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all. This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes'" (Eccl.7:25-29).
                    Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

                    Mat_13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

                    1Jn_3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

                    oh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
                    Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
                    Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
                    Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

                    Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
                    Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

                    1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

                    Esau took wives of these children of the devil and became the father of the fake Jews.
                    Examples (King Herod, the scribes and Pharisees that had Jesus crucified) all came from Esau's linage.

                    Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
                    Mal 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
                    Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

                    The devil was cast out of heaven and there is no way that God is willing to take him and his children to heaven.

                    Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
                    Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                      iamaberean: If one believes that there are children of the devil ...

                      Jerald Shugart: No one is born that way ...
                      Just one more proof that you can't possibly have the Holy Spirit.
                      Because the precious Holy Spirit indwells BACs to teach them spiritual Truth.
                      And one major spiritual Truth is: Man is born with a fallen sin nature!
                      E.G. Jesus said that all 12 of His disciples were evil.
                      You need to be born-again ... and stop teaching Satan's lies.
                      "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
                      you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
                      (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
                      (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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