Biblical Flat Enclosed Earth and Firmament

[The Barbarian]

And I would imagine that gravity also accounts for the gyroscope artificial horizon phenomenon that flat-earthers also like to bring up. You would most likely know much more about it than myself, but it seems that the pull of gravity would keep the gyroscope perpendicular to the surface of the earth while an airplane is in flight, (I only bring it up because I saw it brought up in several other threads already and I do think that the answer to that particular objection of the flat-earthers pertains to the effects of gravity on the gyroscope or artificial horizon).

You're right. "Down" is a local phenomenon; it's just the direction of the center of the mass of the Earth. I haven't given it any thought before, but I suspect that a really sensitive gyroscope detects the gradual change in force. I wonder if those compasses are programmed to compensate for it.

The most devastating hit on a "flat Earth" belief is the Foucault pendulum. I've yet to see any flat-Earther come up with an even remotely plausible story to account for it.

 

[patrick jane]

And I would imagine that gravity also accounts for the gyroscope artificial horizon phenomenon that flat-earthers also like to bring up. You would most likely know much more about it than myself, but it seems that the pull of gravity would keep the gyroscope perpendicular to the surface of the earth while an airplane is in flight, (I only bring it up because I saw it brought up in several other threads already and I do think that the answer to that particular objection of the flat-earthers pertains to the effects of gravity on the gyroscope or artificial horizon).

It's amazing how many things science explains with gravity and other magical "forces". Such a strong force and yet so weak. I think I read that Newton wrote either 300 or 500 pages to explain it. You globers can explain anything with gravity, math and science. :chuckle: Don't worship the Fake Creation more than the Creator. Maybe it's a strong delusion. :idunno:

 

[patrick jane]

I decided to start a new thread for discussion of a Biblical, enclosed flat earth, sky and firmament for anyone interested. Personally, I will probably post more videos and pictures than scripture. I will avoid taking scripture out of context and I will not post much scientific data for FE and probably none for a spinning flying ball. I'm doing this to stop posting religious posts in DFT Dave's thread and to leave flat earth just another popular conspiracy in my Conspiracy Thread.


I think this is a great video for starting out the thread and I like this youtube channel and speaker.


I would prefer no scientific data for a globe but I realize I can't control that. Biblical evidence for a spherical moving earth is certainly welcome.


'The Gift of Looking Stupid' - Flat Earth & the Mark of the Beast...



https://youtu.be/fRgiPBxaMFs - Click on link for full screen. Sometimes clicking on the video cuts off half the screen.


13 minutes

Just a friendly reminder to try keeping the majority of the science in the already created Flat Earth Thread by DFT Dave. I messed up fairly quickly but I'm trying to avoid as per the OP above. You can also post any scientific data in my Conspiracy Thread anytime.

 

[daqq]

It's amazing how many things science explains with gravity. Such a strong force and yet so weak. I think I read that Newton wrote either 300 or 500 pages to explain it. You globers can explain anything with gravity, math and science. :chuckle: Don't worship the Fake Creation more than the Creator. Maybe it's a strong delusion. :idunno:

Try this Patrick: jump, and see what happens, but do not do it standing at the edge of a cliff.

 

[patrick jane]

Try this Patrick: jump, and see what happens, but do not do it standing at the edge of a cliff.

Or the edge of the earth. :think:

 

[daqq]

You're right. "Down" is a local phenomenon; it's just the direction of the center of the mass of the Earth. I haven't given it any thought before, but I suspect that a really sensitive gyroscope detects the gradual change in force. I wonder if those compasses are programmed to compensate for it.

The most devastating hit on a "flat Earth" belief is the Foucault pendulum. I've yet to see any flat-Earther come up with an even remotely plausible story to account for it.

Thanks, it seems logical to me, also when I read what you wrote previously, (which I quoted and responded to), I immediately knew that what you said was logically correct just by how you said it so clearly.

Or the edge of the earth. :think:

But don't the flat-earthers say there is a two hundred mile high wall of ice around the edge of the flat earth? How will you assail the antarctic fortress wall so as to jump off the edge of the earth? Moreover I was only speaking of a mini-science project you can perform right where you are: you might not be able to see gravity but you can surely see the effects of gravity, and we all know gravity is real, no matter what name you might want to give it or how magically you might wish to describe it. As Van Halen once said, paraphrased, (I think), "Jump! Go ahead and jump...", wait, how tall are you? and how high are the ceilings in your house? Maybe not. :chuckle:

 

[patrick jane]

I wish the book of Enoch was in the agreed upon canon, then I could trust it. As it is, you are avoiding the main part of the verse that plainly says God created two great lights.

It is not speaking of the physical creation but the new creation man in Messiah, (fulfilled at Golgotha). Even the ancients did not believe Gen1 spoke of the physical creation: and this is shown in the Book of Enoch, in the section called the Book of the Luminaries, wherein it is stated more than once that Uriel presides over the sun, the moon, and all the stars, that is, not a "greater light" and a "lesser light" but one over them all who rules both the night and the day when it comes to the heavenly bodies or luminaries, and that one was Uriel. Whether one believes the Book of Enoch. . .

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[patrick jane]

I wish the book of Enoch was in the agreed upon canon, then I could trust it. As it is, you are avoiding the main part of the verse that plainly says God created two great lights.

It is not speaking of the physical creation but the new creation man in Messiah, (fulfilled at Golgotha). Even the ancients did not believe Gen1 spoke of the physical creation: and this is shown in the Book of Enoch, in the section called the Book of the Luminaries, wherein it is stated more than once that Uriel presides over the sun, the moon, and all the stars, that is, not a "greater light" and a "lesser light" but one over them all who rules both the night and the day when it comes to the heavenly bodies or luminaries, and that one was Uriel. Whether one believes the Book of Enoch. . .

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk



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[daqq]

I wish the book of Enoch was in the agreed upon canon, then I could trust it. As it is, you are avoiding the main part of the verse that plainly says God created two great lights.

It is not speaking of the physical creation but the new creation man in Messiah, (fulfilled at Golgotha). Even the ancients did not believe Gen1 spoke of the physical creation: and this is shown in the Book of Enoch, in the section called the Book of the Luminaries, wherein it is stated more than once that Uriel presides over the sun, the moon, and all the stars, that is, not a "greater light" and a "lesser light" but one over them all who rules both the night and the day when it comes to the heavenly bodies or luminaries, and that one was Uriel. Whether one believes the Book of Enoch. . .

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When you say the sun and moon are in the fourth day of creation you are yourself automatically adding to the scripture: so how does Enoch matter either way when you are already adding to what the scripture says? This was also already brought up in the other thread where Tambora posted a video that had the same additions to the scripture right on the front display page of the video. Just because that is what all physical-literalists assume does not mean it is true or that it is okay to add your paradigm-mindset into the scripture. Moses wrote about the sun and moon but those two words are nowhere to be found in the first chapter of Genesis. Do you think that is just an unfortunate coincidence for YEC's? "Doggonit! Why couldn't Moses just spell it out plainly for us and write sun and moon!?!?" Try this: perhaps it is because the literal physical sun and moon are not what the fourth day of Gen1:14-19 is talking about. All things were created in Arche: do you know who Arche is? This is a name Messiah claims for himself and this name is found in both Gen1:1 as well as Joh1:1, and in both cases it is anarthrous in the Greek, (no article meaning that you can indeed read it as a name, as well is the Hebrew of Gen1:1, "In Reshiyth/Roshiyth, the Head, Ruler, First, Arche). These things are actually critical to doctrine though most unfortunately think that the choices they make in this subject matter are inconsequential: nothing could be further from the truth if indeed one desires to understand.

 

[daqq]

Answered here:

https://youtu.be/W9ksbh88OJs?t=12m35s

Lol, I watched all four parts of this presentation: the guy annihilates flat-earthism.

 

[patrick jane]

Answered here:

https://youtu.be/W9ksbh88OJs?t=12m35s

Debunked here. [MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION]

[h=1]Eric Dubay: Flat Earth Metabunk DEBUNKED![/h]

https://youtu.be/9JZ2ZZeyQ9c - Click on link to get full screen view. Sometimes if you click on the video it cuts off half the screen.

This is for the serious debunkers only - "You don't want that debunk, it's not sexy"

 

[patrick jane]

[h=1]Bible Proof of the Flat Earth Truth[/h]
From the video description: Christians around the world don't believe the lies of evolution so why believe in the theory that gave us evolution? The flat earth truth is that we were created in a special enclosed world just for us. There are not billions of suns, billions of planets & billions of years! The Sun, Moon and Stars are not what you have been told. If you think you can trust NASA, Monkey Man Science or the Military think again! Satan is the god of this world and he has blinded the eyes of those that can't see. The universe with the big bang out of nothing creating stars that we eventually evolved from has been the biggest lie. Research the origins, test the so called proof they have from fake space flights to the cave man discoveries. If you want to believe the opposites to the bible go right ahead but remember that when you study the bible right from the very beginning you'll see that the theories of man have twisted and lied about all of God's creation. What can you trust if you take Satan's lies over God's truth?


https://youtu.be/cApXPTrOf7A - Only 15 minutes - Click on this link for full screen view - Sometimes if you click on the picture of the video it cuts off half the screen. Not a problem on your phone.

 

[patrick jane]

TIMELAPSE OF THE SUN PROVES FLAT EARTH - HD perspective matrix


From the video description: This is an upgraded version of the original with added timelapse footage. The old, low resolution footage has been replaced with high resolution HD footage. Watch how the sun comes at you when it's rising and goes away from you when it's setting. See how the sun's light at sunset shrinks and trails after it - not at all what we would expect to see if the sun is 93,000,000 miles away.

I am posting this video in Dave's thread and my two threads because this is good evidence - debunk it if you can.
https://youtu.be/GDaiw-G1VGE - Only 20 minutes to prove the flat earth, Click on link for full screen view - Sometimes if you click the video the screen gets cut in half. This won't happen on your phone.

 

[jsanford108]

A few things: 2 Samuel 11:11 says nothing about a "flat earth."

The logic of these points proves itself false. Hills, mountains, valleys, even rivers prove that not all paths are "straight." Also, not all rivers are "straight."

 

[jsanford108]

Allow me to go ahead and declare that I believe in a spherical earth, as evidenced by, well, evidence.

Yet, for the record, here are two points:
1.) I do not think it matters if the earth is flat or spherical. Neither one affects the Scripture. (I am open to hearing how such evidence does affect it, though)
2.) I think that the reason anyone would reject spherical earth evidence, in favor of flat earth theory, is to remain logically consistent in their stance. Meaning, that these people reject evidence for a spherical earth, as well as, evidence for other phenomenon which would disprove their personal beliefs, doctrines, or stances. Therefore, these individuals reject all "science," and logic that applies to it.

 

[patrick jane]

A few things: 2 Samuel 11:11 says nothing about a "flat earth."

The logic of these points proves itself false. Hills, mountains, valleys, even rivers prove that not all paths are "straight." Also, not all rivers are "straight."

In the 1547 (I think) Matthews Bible it says flatt, two t's. I posted a picture of the text in that Bible where it says flat. It could be an interpreting error in one Bible and many of those verses of the 200 could be taken out of context. Flat Earthers don't contend that everything has to be "straight".

 

[jsanford108]

Then a flat earth is not outside of GOD's power.

I would agree.

The sun and moon stop.
It doesn't say anything else in the universe stopped.
I'm not so sure any scientist would say that the earth kept moving along as normal while that was happening with no repercussions.

The sun stopped.
If the earth was a spinning ball, then stopping the sun would have made the day shorter not longer.
But if the earth was fixed and flat (ya know, like scripture describes it), the story fits like a glove and the day would indeed be longer in that area.

You are viewing this from a modern perspective, not that present in Hellenistic or pre-Hellenistic persons/authors.

Your argument here also fails, logically. An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. You agree with this statement, correct? So, just because something is not explicitly stated in Scripture, does not make it so. Scripture never mentions the Americas, yet, surely you accept that they exist?

First of all it wouldn't be the whole countries, but a select few that control the data.
As for "why", that's not hard to imagine --------

prestige, and status.

How would promotion of a spherical earth lead to an increase in money?

You don't have to answer this, due to it not being the intent of Sir Patrick the Great to keep this thread Scripture-based. And, I also know that there is no way that you have an actual answer that isn't a part of a circular explanation.

I can do ya one better so ya don't have to accept my interpretation.
This here is what language experts on the Hebrew language (who are NOT flat earth proponents) say it would look like if the language is taken as literal.
So it is not in question that scripture describes it this way; but whether to take it as literal or not.

The Hebrews also didn't think that the Americas existed, or Antarctica. Do you hold this to be true and accurate, as wall?


Here are a few questions for flat earth theory, as they relate strictly to observable evidence (by a common person):

1.) Why do the sun and moon appear perfectly circular? (Knowing that stars do not)
2.) What causes physical reality causes a solar eclipse, as it would be impossible given the models you have provided?
3.) Are there other planets?

 

[jsanford108]

In the 1547 (I think) Matthews Bible it says flatt, two t's. I posted a picture of the text in that Bible where it says flat. It could be an interpreting error in one Bible and many of those verses of the 200 could be taken out of context. Flat Earthers don't contend that everything has to be "straight".

It is an earlier bible version, however, even then, I could not find the phrase "flatt earthe" within 2 Samuel 11:11.

I think that many of the verses listed in that particular image are taken out of context, as many are figurative, such as "straight paths." I simply address the obvious illogical fallacy that would present if one contended that "since all paths are straight, not curved, the earth must be flat." That ignores easily observable phenomenon, such as hillocks, valleys, etc.

While flat earth theories do not contend that "all must be flat," their submitted evidence relies on that very strict, objective notion.

I posited three questions to Tambora, regarding flat earth theory and its explanations for them. Anyone can feel free to answer them, if they like, so I will post them in this reply, as well. They simply demonstrate some very basic observations that flat earth theory would be hard pressed to answer.

1.) Why do the sun and moon appear perfectly circular? (Knowing that stars do not)
2.) What causes physical reality causes a solar eclipse, as it would be impossible given the models you have provided?
3.) Are there other planets?

 

[patrick jane]

1.) Why do the sun and moon appear perfectly circular? (Knowing that stars do not)
2.) What causes physical reality causes a solar eclipse, as it would be impossible given the models you have provided?
3.) Are there other planets?

1. We know that God created heavenly bodies to be observed for signs and seasons. It doesn't say anything about the size, shape or distance of "stars" that I'm aware of. Personally, I don't see what stars not appearing perfectly circular has to do with anything.
2. If I understand #2, the entire explanation for eclipses, lunar and solar are shown absolutely possible on an enclosed earth and firmament. When I get time to, I will examine that information more and try typing what they show instead of a video to watch. I may post the vid if I think it's worthy though.
3. Yes there are other planets (from what we apparently see and are told) as we define them. I could be wrong but I think stars also fit the definition of a planet.

 

[patrick jane]

Romans 11:33-36 KJV - O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.