ECT Believer's call to repentance

[Truster]

When Messiah paid the price for the sin of His people He paid the price for all their sin. Past, present and future.

"Blessed is the man to whom Yah Veh will not impute sin."

I should add that this is not simply a doctrine based on scripture. This is an absolute fact. The blessedness of this continual experience is above and beyond anything imaginable. It has to be experienced before it can be comprehended.

To the praise of the glory of His grace and amen.

 

[God's Truth]

I should add that this is not simply a doctrine based on scripture. This is an absolute fact. The blessedness of this continual experience is above and beyond anything imaginable. It has to be experienced before it can be comprehended.

To the praise of the glory of His grace and amen.

People who are saved must watch their lives and their doctrine closely. Satan ensnares people to believe falseness. You definitely are not in truth.

 

[jsanford108]

Please explain why or why not you think a believer (not an unbeliever) requires a pastor, teacher, fellow believer etc... to be given a call for repentance. In other words, could a believer live a life of repentance without someone else (besides the Holy Spirit without a human intermediary) bringing a word of conviction (whether intentionally or unintentionally)?

I say that interpersonal relationships such as pastors, preachers, priests, are necessary, as a generalization. Such relationships keep us mindful of ourselves. We, as humans, are social creatures. We are also the only creature which knowingly harms ourselves. We know sin is harmful to our soul, yet we willingly turn to it so often.

I believe, that without people to call us out, through sermons, we would only dive deeper into sin. Are they specifically calling us out? Of course not. But often, we hear truth told, as we have heard it before, and we feel guilt for our actions. Thus, we repent.

I don't think congrats are needed nearly as often as reminders of what is good and holy.

Now, I know that some in this thread will disagree. And why not. (Some say "why"; I say "why not") Most of those have their view based on their doctrine or personal interpretations. This is just my extrapolation and speculation, based on evidence in Scripture. It was always the prophets and Apostles who brought reconciliation to the people.


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[jsanford108]

When Messiah paid the price for the sin of His people He paid the price for all their sin. Past, present and future.

"Blessed is the man to whom Yah Veh will not impute sin."

If this is the case, then why did the Apostles pen letters to various "believers," calling them to repent? If their sins were all forgiven, even future ones, then any instruction is unnecessary.

As is bearing witness to others. As are your efforts here. If our fruits have no weight, then no worries.

But that isn't what Christ said.


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[Truster]

If this is the case, then why did the Apostles pen letters to various "believers," calling them to repent? If their sins were all forgiven, even future ones, then any instruction is unnecessary.

As is bearing witness to others. As are your efforts here. If our fruits have no weight, then no worries.

But that isn't what Christ said.


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Which part of "repentance is ongoing" gives you such problems? Do you understand the principle of being a repentant sinner? Rhetorical?

 

[jsanford108]

Which part of "repentance is ongoing" gives you such problems? Do you understand the principle of being a repentant sinner? Rhetorical?

This is paradoxical to your proposed atonement, one without timeline exception. If Christ died for all sins, past, present, and future, then a repentance of sin is unnecessary, as it has already been atoned for.

As I stated before, it gives the fruits we bear no weight, and no bearing, on our salvation. Contrary to what Christ stated.


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[Truster]

This is paradoxical to your proposed atonement, one without timeline exception. If Christ died for all sins, past, present, and future, then a repentance of sin is unnecessary, as it has already been atoned for.

As I stated before, it gives the fruits we bear no weight, and no bearing, on our salvation. Contrary to what Christ stated.


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Redemption is not universal and needs to be applied to the recipients of grace. When someone is a beneficiary in a human last will and testiment they don't automatically inherit. There is a work to be done by the executors of the will to distribute the inheritance to the recipients.
In the Fathers will it is the role of the Son and Holy Spirit as executors to visit the heirs and both inform and present the gift to the heirs. That is salvation from sin.

 

[God's Truth]

Redemption is not universal and needs to be applied to the recipients of grace.

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

 

[Truster]

How many times has this actually happened to you directly?

How many time have you pointed out to others their sin directly?

I'd say zero...but I'm open to correction.

Is there going to be an answer to this question?

 

[nikolai_42]

How many times has this actually happened to you directly?

Me directly? Several - though often from the pulpit. But also personally (though not from the pulpit).

How many time have you pointed out to others their sin directly?

I'd say zero...but I'm open to correction.

Personally and directly? I don't ever recall doing so.

 

[nikolai_42]

This is paradoxical to your proposed atonement, one without timeline exception. If Christ died for all sins, past, present, and future, then a repentance of sin is unnecessary, as it has already been atoned for.

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Why, then, would Jesus require repentance from those in the church at Thyatira? Not just Jezebel herself, but those who were seduced by her :

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Revelation 2:20-22

 

[Truster]

Me directly? Several - though often from the pulpit. But also personally (though not from the pulpit).



Personally and directly? I don't ever recall doing so.

You didn't mention through preaching in the OP just through those you share fellowship with.

How many times has a member of the congregation approached you and told you that you need to repent of a particular sin? Again I would say zero times. Open to correction.

 

[nikolai_42]

You didn't mention through preaching in the OP just through those you share fellowship with.

Hmmm...I guess I was thinking it when I mentioned the pastor - but I see I didn't explicitly mention it in the OP. In my first response (to Lon) I did refer to it in passing, but I can see that this may have affected how people responded.

How many times has a member of the congregation approached you and told you that you need to repent of a particular sin? Again I would say zero times. Open to correction.

How many times? I don't know. Not a large number, I agree, but it has happened. They may not have said those specific words ("You need to repent" or a close approximation) but the directness was clear and the impact immediate.

EDIT : And I will add that it wasn't necessarily a member of a congregation I attended regularly - but someone I knew in Christ and with whom I had some fellowship. The idea of a specific church (or attending congregation) was not my specific intent in the OP

 

[Truster]

By Op I meant the original post in which this conversation began. Post 20.

I shall not bother any further with this as you appear to be as slippery as an eel.

 

[nikolai_42]

By Op I meant the original post in which this conversation began. Post 20.

I shall not bother any further with this as you appear to be as slippery as an eel.

I've never seen "OP" be used in any other sense than the first post in a thread. So if that's what you were talking about (i.e. post 20), I missed it - partly because you were talking about what I said, and post 20 is your own post.

I'm not trying to avoid anything. I simply was thinking about calling to repentance that can take place in a situation in which one is (essentially) forced to face his sin. That certainly can (and does) happen from the pulpit and in one's private walk with God. It's the impetus to repent that was at the heart of my original post. But my lack of definition has caused some problems. I am sorry for that. If editing the post would help, I would do so - but that would potentially change the meaning of the responses since they were responding to what I actually did say.

So if you are asking if anyone personally has come to me and shown me something I was doing that required repentance - I have. If you are asking if I have gone directly to anyone and pointed out that they have done something that requires repentance then I don't believe so. I don't recall ever doing that. Not in the context of the body of believers.

 

[jsanford108]

Why, then, would Jesus require repentance from those in the church at Thyatira? Not just Jezebel herself, but those who were seduced by her :

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Revelation 2:20-22

Is this agreeing with my point? Because, it is definitely worded in a manner that proves my point.

It stands logically, that if Christ calls us to repent (which He does), that "all" sin has not been atoned for. Did Christ bear the punishment of sin? Absolutely. But to say "all sin has been paid for," implying past/present/future sins of any given individual, is paradoxical to Apostolic teaching of necessary repentance.


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[nikolai_42]

Is this agreeing with my point? Because, it is definitely worded in a manner that proves my point.

It stands logically, that if Christ calls us to repent (which He does), that "all" sin has not been atoned for. Did Christ bear the punishment of sin? Absolutely. But to say "all sin has been paid for," implying past/present/future sins of any given individual, is paradoxical to Apostolic teaching of necessary repentance.


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Sorry. I am afraid I misread your post. You are right.

 

[jsanford108]

Sorry. I am afraid I misread your post. You are right.

No worries, friend. That was my guess.


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