ECT Mt 7's Lord, Lord and the kingdom

[Jerry Shugart]

It's as clear as crystal, how can you not see it?

Since you are convinced you are right then please answer what I said here:

And we are supposed to believe that this prophecy is not to be understood literally?

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

If this prophecy is not to be understood literally then it must have another meaning. Please tell us what that other meaning is.

Thanks!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

there's confusion here about his dwelling within his people. That is now and has been since the preaching of the Gospel, but it shouldn't be confused with the 2nd coming in judgement. That is a real objective event yet to take place.

You cannot keep your stories straight, Lamont.
You apply all of Revelation to 70ad and now you say this.

 

[Right Divider]

You cannot keep your stories straight, Lamont.
You apply all of Revelation to 70ad and now you say this.

Fibbers do have an impossible task of making all the fibs agree. :think:

 

[marhig]

Since you are convinced you are right then please answer what I said here:

And we are supposed to believe that this prophecy is not to be understood literally?

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

If this prophecy is not to be understood literally then it must have another meaning. Please tell us what that other meaning is.

Thanks!

If you can see, it says in the earth not on the earth, we are the earth that Christ returns in when we are quickened by the holy spirit, and he is risen in our hearts. And he shall reign within us and help us to overcome Satan. And he prospers as we decrease in the flesh and he increases by the spirit.

Judgement begins in the house of God, and those who believe in Jesus, who have faith and do Gods will are the house of God, and when Christ is made manifest in our hearts through the holy spirit, then he brings with him justice, righteousness and judgement.

He cleanses our hearts and through the spirit gives us the strength to overcome, as long as we obey him and do Gods will, and he changes our hearts to make us just and we are judged on what we do once we know the living God. Then as we speak the word of God, Christ through us judges others and brings justice by the word and through the gospel, God loves us all, and if we love him with all our hearts then we will love those we meet, whoever they are, treating everyone the same as God is no respector of persons and those who belong to him will have the same heart and they will show love, kindness and forgiveness and show Christ in and through there lives baring witness to the truth.

1 Peter 4

For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

2 Corinthians 5

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Revelation 20

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things .which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[meshak]

Thanks for quoting those scriptures, and yes we must be born again to enter the kingdom of God, not of flesh but born of God through Christ by the a spirit.

Jesus said in John 6

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I know that one day there will be a natural end to this world, but all that is in Gods hands, I don't think about it, I just know that my heart has to be right before him and I must always be ready to do his will when I'm needed. And I need Christ and the strength of the holy spirit to overcome.

But I know that spiritually Jesus has already returned and he is in the hearts of his people, and wherever Christ is, Gods kingdom is there also. So if Christ by the spirit is within us, then so is Gods kingdom.

well said, sister

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If you can see, it says in the earth not on the earth, we are the earth that Christ returns in when we are quickened by the holy spirit, and he is risen in our hearts. And he shall reign within us and help us to overcome Satan. And he prospers as we decrease in the flesh and he increases by the spirit.

Let us look at this verse again but this time in its context:

"And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:3-5).​

By the context it is obvious that the action is in regard to things which will be happening on the earth. This is not saying that we are the "earth." By saying such outrageous things as that you are proving that you have little respect for the Scriptures.

Why are you so eager to put foreign meanings on practically all of the prophecies found in the OT? I think that you base most of your interpretations of the OT prophecies according to your preconceived ideas instead of what these prophecies actually say.

The prophecies concerning the Lord Jesus' birth and living on the earth and His sufferings were fulfilled in a literal manner. So why should anyone think that the other prophecies concerning Him will not also be fulfilled in the same literal manner?

 

[Interplanner]

Let us look at this verse again but this time in its context:

"And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:3-5).​

By the context it is obvious that the action is in regard to things which will be happening on the earth. This is not saying that we are the "earth." By saying such outrageous things as that you are proving that you have little respect for the Scriptures.

Why are you so eager to put foreign meanings on practically all of the prophecies found in the OT? I think that you base most of your interpretations of the OT prophecies according to your preconceived ideas instead of what these prophecies actually say.

The prophecies concerning the Lord Jesus' birth and living on the earth and His sufferings were fulfilled in a literal manner. So why should anyone think that the other prophecies concerning Him will not also be fulfilled in the same literal manner?

I would consider it disrespect to ignore how the NT uses them. That's where this kingdom is said to be in operation now.

There are many non-literal uses of the OT in the NT. Literalism is actually a stagnant problem in the Gospel of John, in about 20 exchanges between Jesus and the leaders.

btw, have you figured out what a literal THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS looks like? He is our righteousness now. That's what justification is.

The raised-up fallen tent of David is now, Acts 15 on Amos 9 (literally).

The promises to David were transfered to Christ says Acts 13 quoting Isaiah 49.

The NT simply has no need to see a Davidic theocracy take place on this earth, although besides what such promises mean for Christians now (as used by Hebrews 8-10), there will be a NHNE where righteousness reigns, but it is not Judaic or Judean; it doesn't need to be.

If David called him Lord, how can He be his son? He's a priest after the order of Melchizedek, not Aaron, says Ps 110.

 

[Right Divider]

btw, have you figured out what a literal THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS looks like? He is our righteousness now. That's what justification is.

Jer 23:5-8 (AKJV/PCE)​

(23:5) ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. (23:6) In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. (23:7) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; (23:8) But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. ​

More "spiritualizing" on your part? You're a spiritual liar.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The promises to David were transfered to Christ says Acts 13 quoting Isaiah 49.

That idea is contradicted by the LORD because He said that He will not "alter" the promises which He made to David:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Of course you refuse to believe that truth because your theology is based on the idea that the LORD did indeed "alter" the promises which He made to David. And by doing so you make the LORD out to be a liar.

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged" (Ro.3:4).​

 

[Interplanner]

That idea is contradicted by the LORD because He said that He will not "alter" the promises which He made to David:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Of course you refuse to believe that truth because your theology is based on the idea that the LORD did indeed "alter" the promises which He made to David. And by doing so you make the LORD out to be a liar.

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged" (Ro.3:4).​

But it has been shown many times that some of the "Davids" in the Psalms are actually Christ, which is what the question 'how can he then be his son?' was meant to get at. You are making the mistake with Ps 89 that Judaism made at Christ's time.