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  • #31
    Originally posted by musterion View Post
    There's no sign in the account that the woman was repentant of her sin, or that she even realized Who Christ is, any more than it says He pronounced her forgiven as an extension of grace vs not breaking jot or tittle of His Law.

    Too much reading into the incident that which the Text does not say. Just like the Pharisees did.

    But in Luke 7 and elsewhere, the women were known to have been in many relationships, and the whole point is the forgiveness, not the procedure about the sin of adultery.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Tambora View Post
      At the cross.
      At the time of the adulterous woman, the cross had not taken place yet.

      Not to mention that Jesus Christ says that not one jot or title will pass from the law until heaven and earth pass. (Matt 5:18)

      Obviously He could not abide by their not following the law as instructed on how to conduct an accusation of adultery.

      Again, they were not asking Him about His personal opinion; they asked concerning what the law said (ie. OT Mosaic law).


      Jesus said He did not condemn her.
      He says nothing about "forgiving" her.
      Jesus could not have condemned her based on the way the inquiry was handled (it was not per the law).

      You keep adding the word "forgive" when the scripture does not say that.



      Show in scripture where it says that Jesus forgave her of her sins.
      Why do you use words that scripture does not?

      But in Luke 7 and elsewhere, the women were known to have been in many relationships, and the whole point is the forgiveness, not the procedure about the sin of adultery.
      All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Interplanner View Post
        the whole point is forgiveness
        Not in this incident.
        "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
        Terence Mc Lean

        [most will be very surprised]


        Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
        By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Crucible View Post
          The adulterous woman got off because there were no witnesses. Jewish Law was a lot like what Islam's is now- if there is no witness, then there is no prosecution. The Pharisees were overstepping their bounds.

          Make sure you put MALE witness there on Islam.
          All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by musterion View Post
            Not in this incident.

            So go for it; split the hairs between them.

            Is forgiving all that different from not condemning?
            All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by andyc View Post
              It was not an official trial,
              Which made it unlawful to begin with.

              and so the details are irrelevant.
              Apparently to you, details are of no importance, so you feel free to change the details of the story.



              It was nothing but a trap, pure and simple.
              A trap that Jesus could easily avoid because they were not conducting the inquiry according to the law.


              Condemnation of the law can only be forgiven if people believe in Jesus.
              Nothing in the story of the woman being a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

              Not everyone Jesus helped were believers and followers of Him. (Luke 17:15-17)

              You keep adding your own assumptions.


              The accusers didn't believe in Jesus, and so the woman remained under condemnation from their perspective. Understand?
              If you remove Jesus out of the equation, your left with condemnation. In a moment of wisdom, Jesus removed the condemnation towards the woman working through the accusers, then he forgave her, because he took her condemnation on himself.

              GRACE in other words!
              The question to Jesus was not whether anyone believed in Him or not. The question was concerning what the law said about handling accusations of adultery. The law being the Mosaic law of the old covenant. Not the law of the new covenant. Jesus hasn't even mentioned the new covenant yet at the time of the adulterous woman.

              There was a just way to condemn someone of adultery per the law.
              The way they were doing it was unjust and to condemn the woman would have been unjust per the law.

              We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
              They already know monsters exist.
              We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

              Comment


              • #37
                The problem doesn't seem to be that there were no witnesses. It says she was caught in the act and He did not dispute that.

                The problem, again, is that they did not also bring the man she was caught with (since "in the act" would mean exactly that).

                They were, in a very real sense, bearing false witness against her by not bringing the man who by Law bore equal guilt.

                Lots of speculation on what He wrote in the dirt. My guess is, He simply wrote Lev 20:10 and emphasized the references to the adulterous man they failed to produce, and possibly also Exo 20:16. There was no way they could spin His reply that would make Him appear guilty of anything, so they slunk away.
                "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                Terence Mc Lean

                [most will be very surprised]


                Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Interplanner View Post
                  Make sure you put MALE witness there on Islam.
                  Women are historically not trusted, as men see them as manipulators. Take all the false rape allegations coming out of the woodwork, or the fight to literally make an inquisition (guilty until proven innocent) out of relevant allegations

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Interplanner View Post
                    So go for it; split the hairs between them.

                    Is forgiving all that different from not condemning?
                    Under the Law, yes it was. She could not LEGALLY be stoned for what she was being accused of because they broke the very rule they sought Him to enforce (wrongly). That did not make her "not guilty," much less forgiven.

                    Escaping condemnation on a hypocritical technicality (on the Pharisees' part) does not = her being forgiven.

                    Do you not think if He had forgiven her, He'd have told her "Your sins are forgiven" just as He did the other woman? But He didn't.

                    You obviously don't care about that, though. You want all Texts to say what you want them to say, and not say what is inconvenient for you. Because you're a false teacher.
                    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                    Terence Mc Lean

                    [most will be very surprised]


                    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Tambora View Post
                      At the cross.
                      At the time of the adulterous woman, the cross had not taken place yet.

                      Not to mention that Jesus Christ says that not one jot or title will pass from the law until heaven and earth pass. (Matt 5:18)
                      That's why faith in Chris is essential (Rom 2:12).

                      Obviously He could not abide by their not following the law as instructed on how to conduct an accusation of adultery.
                      But he did. He said, "he who is without sin, cast the first stone". In other words he was saying, if you think you qualify as executioners on behalf of the law, and you yourselves are blameless, go ahead and execute judgement.

                      Again, they were not asking Him about His personal opinion; they asked concerning what the law said (ie. OT Mosaic law).
                      In order to trap him. If Jesus undermined the Mosaic law, this would expose him as a fraud, from their perspective.

                      John 9:28 Then they reviled him and said, "You are His disciple, but we are Moses‘ disciples.



                      Jesus said He did not condemn her.
                      He says nothing about "forgiving" her.


                      So you think she want away condemned as an adulteress under the law, but happy for the fact that Jesus didn't condemn her?
                      Jesus didn't condemn her as an adulteress, but the law did, even though Jesus was a law enforcer?

                      Jesus could not have condemned her based on the way the inquiry was handled (it was not per the law).
                      So you think Jesus was really saying to her, "you're an adulteress worthy of death, but because the trial is not lawful, I've got no choice but to let you off?

                      You keep adding the word "forgive" when the scripture does not say that.
                      Was she forgiven?
                      Was she still under condemnation by the law?

                      How can Jesus not condemn her, but the law condemn her?
                      If Jesus is supposed to be enforcing the law, how can he pacify the judicial side of the law by not condemning her?

                      You're not thinking this through.

                      Show in scripture where it says that Jesus forgave her of her sins.
                      Why do you use words that scripture does not?
                      I used the example in the OP where Jesus forgave a woman of many sins. It's an identical situation.
                      The pharisee condemned the woman as a sinner, and Jesus agreed with him that her sins were many, but Jesus forgave her of all her sins.

                      Now, if a person is not under condemnation, logic should tell you that they are forgiven.

                      Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

                      The woman was set free by Christ, and she was no longer condemned. I know you hate it, but accept it.
                      Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        IP and Andy are lawless.
                        "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                        Terence Mc Lean

                        [most will be very surprised]


                        Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                        By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Interplanner View Post
                          But in Luke 7 and elsewhere, the women were known to have been in many relationships, and the whole point is the forgiveness, not the procedure about the sin of adultery.
                          The woman was being accused of adultery only.
                          On the adultery accusation, they were asking Jesus about what the law said.
                          They thought He would surely uphold the law.
                          And He did. It was they that didn't.

                          A proper legal case had not been presented correctly per the law.
                          Under the law, she could not be condemned without a proper legal case.
                          In their zeal to trip up Jesus per the law, they tripped themselves up by not following the law.

                          We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
                          They already know monsters exist.
                          We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Tambora View Post
                            Show in scripture where it says that Jesus forgave her of her sins.
                            Why do you use words that scripture does not?
                            Use the other sinful woman in Luke 7 as the example.

                            Christ Jesus said the following to her:

                            (Luke 7:48) Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven...
                            (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by andyc View Post
                              The woman was set free by Christ, and she was no longer condemned. I know you hate it, but accept it.
                              Show where she was repentant and that He told her she was forgiven, and we'll accept it.
                              "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                              Terence Mc Lean

                              [most will be very surprised]


                              Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                              By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by tetelestai View Post
                                Use the other sinful woman in Luke 7 as the example.

                                Christ Jesus said the following to her:


                                (Luke 7:48) Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven...
                                And why?
                                37 A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. 38 As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them. . .

                                50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
                                He did not tell that woman "Go and sin no more," He pronounced her forgiven because of her faith.

                                He did NOT say that to the adulteress, who showed (as far as recorded) no sign of repentance or of faith. What He DID tell he amounts to, "Don't do it again!" because next time there probably won't be a technicality.

                                You are not worthy to handle the Word of God.
                                "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                                Terence Mc Lean

                                [most will be very surprised]


                                Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                                By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                                Comment

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