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  • #31
    Originally posted by andyc View Post
    Paul is quoting from Isaiah 28:11. Paul's reasoning here is that when God's people (the Jews) refuse to believe God's word, God will speak even more unintelligibly which would be a sign of judgement. Isaiah was referring to the Assyrians and Babylonians who spoke in a language that the Jews couldn't understand, but God was judging them through these strange tongues as a sign. Paul likens the gift of tongues to what Isaiah was explaining. People talking in a language that that the Jews couldn't understand, was a sign to the Jewish unbelievers that God was finished speaking intelligibly to them, and was now speaking unintelligibly.
    Nah, I don't think so. The fact is the Father did not want people to understand unless he called them to understand.

    Nothing has changed.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by jamie View Post
      Nah, I don't think so. The fact is the Father did not want people to understand unless he called them to understand.

      Nothing has changed.
      So belief and unbelief doesn't matter with God?
      OK
      Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by andyc View Post
        So belief and unbelief doesn't matter with God?
        The Father calls whom he will. Saul of Tarsus was not a believer when he was called.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by jamie View Post
          The Father calls whom he will. Saul of Tarsus was not a believer when he was called.
          Numbers 14:11 The LORD said to Moses, "How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them?

          Why is God so distressed at the fact the people didn't believe in him?
          Did he forget to make them believe in him?
          Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
            I was saved by grace through faith, simple as that unless you believe that there is suppose to be some hoky poky formula? What say you? How were you saved?
            Yep; Romans 5:1-2; Eph. 2:8-9.

            But you know DP. Always trying to lord things over others.

            This notion of his that if one does not subscribe to HIS version of Acts 9 Dispensationalism, they are not saved...is silly.

            It is one to want to know if another was clear in their understanding of salvation.

            Not so to turn it into his silly standards...

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by andyc View Post
              I have this gift.
              Post audio online of it. You won't because you're a liar.

              It amuses me to watch the religious nutcases trying to refute from scripture that this gift is not for today.
              This is your opportunity to prove that tongues is not for today. Give me your best shot from scripture. Choose your words and scriptures carefully.
              Burden of proof isn't on us to prove you don't have it. The burden is on you to prove that you DO.

              All the gifts were a package deal, authenticating Christ and His disciples/apostles as of God, with some given to also establish the Body of Christ. Tongues, though, were primarily a sign of impending judgment against unrepentant Israel. When Israel was set aside, so were tongues. When Paul finally received the completed body of secret revelation, all the gifts were withdrawn. Not one remains today; we have the Word of God instead. The "signs and wonders" were all sensory -- of sight. You saw, so you believed. The Word is of faith. You believe and you see. The believer is to walk by faith, not sight.

              But forget that. What we can prove, as many have proven before me, is that what you and every other charismatic calls "tongues" is not from God.

              1. Biblical tongues were identifiable human languages that the speaker had never learned. That was the miracle.

              2. Whenever an unbeliever heard Christ preached in his own language by someone that did not speak his language, he knew they spoke by the power of God and what they said was true.

              3. No audio or video exists of ANY charismatic speaking in a human language WHICH can be independently verified as previously unknown to him.

              Let's emphasize that:

              THERE IS NO AUDIO OR VIDEO OF ANY CHARISMATIC WHO (1) IS SPEAKING INTELLIGIBLY IN ANY HUMAN LANGUAGE OTHER THAN HIS NATIVE LANGUAGE (2) THAT CAN BE DOCUMENTED AS A LANGUAGE HE HAD NEVER STUDIED OR EVEN HEARD SPOKEN BEFORE.

              Anecdotal evidence, mere claims to this, will not suffice. It must be INDEPENDENTLY VERIFIED by those who KNOW the person couldn't possibly speak that language on their own -- just as we see in the N.T.

              So to prove "tongues" are for today, you have to provide someone it can be proved never spoke in a foreign language, but who fluently speaks in that language anyway.

              And not only must they speak in a previously unknown language -- they must accurately preach Christ according to the revelation of the mystery and the Gospel of the grace of God.

              Even if they spoke a language one could prove they didn't know, if they preached the wrong Gospel or the wrong Christ, you can know they're of Satan.

              But first find us someone who can prove from independent witnesses they speak in a human language they never knew before.

              Burden of proof is on you.

              I suggest you post audio or video (hiding your face, of course) of YOU speaking with this gift you think you have. Then we'll narrow down from there which human language it is, and what you are saying.

              But you won't. None of you ever do when given this challenge because you know what you have is not any human language but just learned incoherent babbling that is not of God.
              "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
              Terence Mc Lean

              [most will be very surprised]


              Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
              By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by andyc View Post
                Why is God so distressed at the fact the people didn't believe in him?
                Did he forget to make them believe in him?
                He made them the way they are for a purpose.

                Comment


                • #38
                  New challenge post is up for charismatics. I predict no takers.
                  "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                  Terence Mc Lean

                  [most will be very surprised]


                  Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                  By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by serpentdove View Post
                    I'm wondering why he doesn't believe you're saved--if he doesn't believe you're saved. Is he opposed to Pentecostals? They happen to be a growing church, actually. Does he not desire this gift? Is he suspicious of all y'all?

                    Hi and I did not say that BR was NOT SAVED !! And as a PENTECOSTAL I also wonder how these peoplw were saved and their speaking in Tongues scared me as a kid !!

                    If some asked you how to be saved , what would you say ?

                    I can believe that many can not say How they were saved ?

                    Maybe this will help you !!

                    #1, Were you Baptized

                    #2 , Did you have to Repent

                    #3 , Do you have to speak in Tongues

                    #4 , The bible in 1 Cor says that the But the Natural man receiveth the things of the SPIRIT of God , for it is FOOLISHNESS to him and can not know it , because IT IS Spiritually discerned !!

                    So the question IS HOW can a person not seeking God be SAVED ??

                    That is the question and if you say I am HARASSING stay out of my kitchen !!

                    I am surprised at what you said as you have seen me ask that of many believers , so are you different ?

                    So how can anyone be saved when he is dead is Trespasses and in sin ?

                    Remember that one PLANTS the seed and then one WATERS , but God gives the INCREASE , so it it God that saved and not Baptism , Tongues or Repentance !!

                    dan p

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                      Hi and I did not say that BR was NOT SAVED !! And as a PENTECOSTAL I also wonder how these peoplw were saved and their speaking in Tongues scared me as a kid !!

                      If some asked you how to be saved , what would you say ?

                      I can believe that many can not say How they were saved ?

                      Maybe this will help you !!

                      #1, Were you Baptized

                      #2 , Did you have to Repent

                      #3 , Do you have to speak in Tongues

                      #4 , The bible in 1 Cor says that the But the Natural man receiveth the things of the SPIRIT of God , for it is FOOLISHNESS to him and can not know it , because IT IS Spiritually discerned !!

                      So the question IS HOW can a person not seeking God be SAVED ??

                      That is the question and if you say I am HARASSING stay out of my kitchen !!

                      I am surprised at what you said as you have seen me ask that of many believers , so are you different ?

                      So how can anyone be saved when he is dead is Trespasses and in sin ?

                      Remember that one PLANTS the seed and then one WATERS , but God gives the INCREASE , so it it God that saved and not Baptism , Tongues or Repentance !!

                      dan p
                      Get saved Dan P.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Danoh View Post
                        Get saved Dan P.

                        Hi , so tell me How to be saved , GRASSHOPPER ??

                        dan p

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                          Hi , so tell me How to be saved , GRASSHOPPER ??

                          dan p
                          What; you don't know?

                          Tell ya what - simply believe Romans 5:8 and that'll put you in the Romans 5:1 category.

                          I know; I know - not YOUR formula...

                          Get saved, DP

                          Come on; you must know I'm just bustin yer chops.

                          Take a chill pill, bro.

                          I never refer to anyone on here as bro, unless I believe they are saved.

                          Sheesh!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            ...I did not say that BR was NOT SAVED !! And as a PENTECOSTAL I also wonder how these people were saved and their speaking in Tongues scared me as a kid !
                            Men are saved the same way they've always been saved--by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9). He claims he is saved. Yes, tongues can be abused (1 Cor. 14:22–26).

                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            If [someone] asked you how to be saved , what would you say?
                            Jesus saves (Isa 63:9; Eph 5:23). Jesus alone saves (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12).

                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            I can believe that many can not say How they were saved ?
                            Maybe they're not.

                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            Maybe this will help you !!

                            #1, Were you Baptized
                            Yes

                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            #2 , Did you have to Repent
                            Yes

                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            #3 , Do you have to speak in Tongues
                            No

                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            #4 , The bible in 1 Cor says that the But the Natural man receiveth the things of the SPIRIT of God , for it is FOOLISHNESS to him and can not know it , because IT IS Spiritually discerned !!
                            God must turn your eyes and ears on.

                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            So the question IS HOW can a person not seeking God be SAVED ??
                            No one seeks after God (Ro 3:11).

                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            That is the question and if you say I am HARASSING stay out of my kitchen !!
                            You're confusing me with BR.

                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            So how can anyone be saved when he is dead is Trespasses and in sin ?
                            God draws men to himself (John 16:7–11).

                            Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                            Remember that one PLANTS the seed and then one WATERS , but God gives the INCREASE , so it it God that saved and not Baptism, Tongues or Repentance !!
                            Repentance is necessary for salvation. If you haven't repented, you're not saved. The greasy gracer of course won't acknowledge that repentance is necessity (Acts 2:37, 38, 26:20, 1 Cor. 2:13, 2 Cor. 5:17, 7:9, 10, 1 Thess. 1:9, 10).

                            Related:

                            Lordship

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Danoh View Post
                              What; you don't know?

                              Tell ya what - simply believe Romans 5:8 and that'll put you in the Romans 5:1 category.

                              I know; I know - not YOUR formula...

                              Get saved, DP

                              Come on; you must know I'm just bustin yer chops.

                              Take a chill pill, bro.

                              I never refer to anyone on here as bro, unless I believe they are saved.

                              Sheesh!

                              Hi and that means that you ARE Harassing ? WOW !! REALLY ??

                              I wonder how I got around 1 Cor 2:14 and than felt save until I realize HOW God saved people EVEN when they do not know how , and just trying to get people to think and realize they are OSAS and that man can not save anyone !!

                              I now that many consider me a PEDAGOGUE , but I am what I am !!

                              dan p

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by serpentdove View Post
                                Men are saved the same way they've always been saved--by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9). He claims he is saved. Yes, tongues can be abused (1 Cor. 14:22–26).

                                Jesus saves (Isa 63:9; Eph 5:23). Jesus alone saves (Isa 45:21,22; 59:16; Ac 4:12).

                                Maybe they're not.

                                Yes

                                Yes

                                No

                                God must turn your eyes and ears on.

                                No one seeks after God (Ro 3:11).

                                You're confusing me with BR.

                                God draws men to himself (John 16:7–11).

                                Repentance is necessary for salvation. If you haven't repented, you're not saved. The greasy gracer of course won't acknowledge that repentance is necessity (Acts 2:37, 38, 26:20, 1 Cor. 2:13, 2 Cor. 5:17, 7:9, 10, 1 Thess. 1:9, 10).

                                Related:

                                Lordship

                                Hi and IF what you say that all men are saved the same way , then how was Moses saved ??

                                So where does Paul say to REPENT ??

                                Where does it say we have " TO BE BORN AGAIN ??

                                There is a verse , YOU KNOW ??

                                Do you have one ??

                                dan p

                                Comment

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