ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

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Cross Reference

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Genesis 3 and Luke 4 would bury you. You don't even want me addressing the Hebrew and Greek texts to do so.

The message would never be different no matter how you might wish to manipulate in trying to persuade away from what is easily understandable from the scriptures as written in the KJV and other translations in line with the KJV.. That is God's promise to all who seek Him with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. Somehow, I don't see you making the cut.

I don't need your rendering of any passage in the scriptures. I have a greater Teacher.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
But you said Grace brought reconciliation? Better get your confused thinking sorted out alittle better, eh?

Christ's Death and shedding His Blood are one and the same. Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His death while they are enemies Rom 5:10.

That doesnt apply to all mankind without exception !
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Okay, finally you affirm that you do say, 'Christ died for our sins to unbelievers.' However, your words here appear to hold a subtle caveat:


'Our confession of faith'? So you permit yourself to say 'our' because you are defining the referent of the pronoun to be yourself and any other true believers? And not just anyone - not necessarily anyone to whom you preach?

Would you clarify please? If the words, 'Christ died for our sins,' are preached to unbelievers then it will be understood (by the auditors) that they themselves are for whom Christ died - and, indeed, all men. Unless, of course, you explicitly reveal your (possible) definition of 'our'.

This would actually take a long excursis into Hamartiology based upon the structural grammatical minutiae of Greek articular and anarthrous nouns.

I recall you identifying as an Agnostic, when you seem to be advocating for one "side" of the false binary in Christian doctrine. Your approach is a bit confusing in this regard.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
The message would never be different no matter how you might wish to manipulate in trying to persuade away from what is easily understandable from the scriptures as written in the KJV and other translations in line with the KJV.. That is God's promise to all who seek Him with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. Somehow, I don't see you making the cut.

I don't need your rendering of any passage in the scriptures. I have a greater Teacher.

Your extreme Christological heresy speaks for itself. The Holy Spirit did not teach you that, contrary to your delusions of self-importance and nominal perusal of the text.
 

Cross Reference

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Your extreme Christological heresy speaks for itself. The Holy Spirit did not teach you that, contrary to your delusions of self-importance and nominal perusal of the text.

Better go easy on who you think taught me. Even your Greek whatever, will tell you that if you are paying attention. . .hummm?

So, Phee, Phii, Phoe, Phum, Who's afraid of this big bad wolf...
 

Cross Reference

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This would actually take a long excursis into Hamartiology based upon the structural grammatical minutiae of Greek articular and anarthrous nouns.

I recall you identifying as an Agnostic, when you seem to be advocating for one "side" of the false binary in Christian doctrine. Your approach is a bit confusing in this regard.


LOL!!! <My sides are spitting>> LOL!!!!! Phahnumamacha has gotcha. Better be on guard.
 

Sonnet

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The capacity of faith is gifted to sinners by the grace of God, when He wills, and to whom He wills to bestow it. Romans 9:15-16

I believe you have fundamentally misunderstood Romans 9. If you wish we could work through it verse by verse. But with regard to your particular claim regarding faith and verses 15 and 16 then I am nonplussed. Paul is simply saying that (and contrary to the belief of his brethren, the Israelites) the true children of God will not be because they are descendants of Israel or Abraham (by birth), or because of any works, but, rather, because they are children of the promise. And God predestined it this way.

Who might be considered to have access to this inheritance?

Galatians 3:7,26
Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,

This is the miracle of regeneration (John 3:1-8) that raises dead sinners to new life, enabling them to live and serve God in new accordance with the Spirit, Will, and Mind of God, as never before. This regeneration gives men the capacity to have faith in God's promises, and results in faithful actions of obedience and service to righteousness.

No, faith comes before the new birth:
v.14 and 15 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

Placing all emphasis on human choice, robs God of His glory as manifested in His power to resurrect. Regeneration is a resurrection from death to life; from darkness to light; to enjoy the capacity of living faith that contrasts with the condemnation of unbelief and sure death.

Regeneration/resurrection precedes the acts of repentance and faithfulness.

This is the teaching of John Chapter 3 and John 15:1-8; John 16:8-15

Mere assertion. Where is your actual argument?
 

Sonnet

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Christ's Death and shedding His Blood are one and the same. Those Christ died for are reconciled to God by His death while they are enemies Rom 5:10.

That doesnt apply to all mankind without exception !

This would constitute such as that which Paul cursed - a different Gospel from the one Paul preached to the Galatians when they were unbelievers.

Paul's curse, not mine. If you refuse to preach the equivalent of 1 Cor 15:3 to unbelievers then you've altered the gospel.
 
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Cross Reference

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The sovereign will of God . . .

God never purposed to save all mankind. It is pure grace that He has saved any souls at all.

Naah!! You know that God would have mankind to be saved. Why stick with such an asinine belief system? There is no truth in it.
 

Sonnet

New member
The sovereign will of God . . .

God never purposed to save all mankind.

Which scripture explicitly says that?

On the contrary -

1 Tim 2:3-4
This is good, and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Yep. Faith is a noun (whether articular or anarthrous). It's distinct from the verb, which is oddly rendered as "believe/believing".

Interestingly... In Romans 10:17, hearing is also a noun. Hearing is not a verb.

Yes, new spiritual ears that can hear and comprehend the spiritual message of the Gospel, is part and parcel of the new capacity (faith) that results from being regenerated to new spiritual life. It is knowledge received of the Son and His cross work that causes love in the sinner's heart for His Person. This is the blessed teaching of Romans Chapter 10.

Repentance (the noun, which takes action as a verb) is granted.

Absolutely. No sinner would ever truly repent, unless God first renewed their hearts and changed their minds/wills.

And epistemologically, the will is "the stretching forth of the mind (in tension) towards the object as subject". Thus "intention/s". One cannot choose without employing the mind TO choose. An unrenewed mind cannot choose what it doesn't know by oida (spiritual intuitive) knowledge.

And without that Godly knowledge, a soul cannot truly love God . . let alone serve and obey Him in righteousness. Romans 6:22

The original creation was via Monergism. There was naught else to cooperate in the divine utterance since God alone is eternal and uncreated.

The new creation is also via Monergism; and any necessary Synergism is included in that Monergism.

Synergism, by its very definition, cannot be Monergism. We cannot and do not effect the new creation on our own behalf. Our unrenewed minds cannot exert our corrupt wills to do so. We must be born from above and resurrected unto spiritual life from within.

Synergism is merely a claim of human Monergism.

Amen!
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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The sovereign will of God . . .

God never purposed to save all mankind. It is pure grace that He has saved any souls at all.

Says you and your extremely dead mentor, John Calvin. Calvinism is a false doctrine where its adherents​ change the character and intent of the God of the Bible in order to fit their false belief system. It will all come to light some day in the eternal.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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It means you do not truly comprehend the grace of God . . .

His grace is not only unconditional, it is irresistible. God's grace never fails to save the intended soul upon which it is bestowed.





Universalism is a false teaching.

Christ died for the sins of ALL of humanity. However, only those who hear the "Grace Gospel" and place their faith in Christ as their Savior will reap the benefits.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Nang follows a false belief system. Calvin was an evil man. If you do a historical study on his life, you'll find out how wicked this man truly was.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Okay, finally you affirm that you do say, 'Christ died for our sins to unbelievers.' However, your words here appear to hold a subtle caveat:


'Our confession of faith'? So you permit yourself to say 'our' because you are defining the referent of the pronoun to be yourself and any other true believers? And not just anyone - not necessarily anyone to whom you preach?

Would you clarify please? If the words, 'Christ died for our sins,' are preached to unbelievers then it will be understood (by the auditors) that they themselves are for whom Christ died - and, indeed, all men. Unless, of course, you explicitly reveal your (possible) definition of 'our'.

That phrase is just one expression of the Gospel message, which I would only use within a Christian context when communicating with confessing brethren.

It is not the words I would use out in the world in general, for I do not believe in assuming God loves all men, and would never tell someone God loved them and forgives them their sins, when I do not know the condition of their hearts . . let alone having no knowledge of their eventual fate.

I do not believe a "free will offer of the gospel" is truthful.
 
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