genuineoriginal
New member
Are you asking for someone to highlight all the misrepresentations in your OP?
ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....
- Thread starter Faither
- Start date
Are you asking for someone to highlight all the misrepresentations in your OP?
This is the overall scope and setting in which the "instruction in righteousness" described in Matthew thru Early Acts are to be understood:
Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Case in point of many that could be cited:
Spoiler
Please asking that all replies are about the Scriptures posted in this thread. If your interested in this thread, I apologize for all the theatrics. Try to ignore the personal attack posts and feel free to reply concerning the Scriptures I've highlighted.
thank you.
See posts #130 and #139
thank you.
See posts #130 and #139
I think we both know the guy's mind is made up and there is no solving for that; he has obviously gone too long down his path; a hardening of the attitudes long ago set in the stone that is this obvious error of his. It is what it is...as to his misunderstanding of what was fully accomplished at the Cross by Jesus Christ...
Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Ask Mr. Religion
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A suggestion...
At each of these posts is that number you list. Right-click that number and select "copy link address". Now paste that link into a post like yours above or create a hyperlink of the numbers you used by selecting that little earth globe button with the chain link at its bottom. That way folks that have their pages set to display five posts per page do not have to scroll about looking for unlinked numbered posts.
AMR
Thanks AMR,
I'll try and see if I can follow your directions tomorrow. My computer skills are very limited.
Interplanner
Well-known member
It still stands that when Jesus said in jn 6 that 'the work of God is to believe on him whom he sent' that he was contrasting human works with the work of God in Christ, and you don't do anything as such to access that for justification from sins. You may and should do many things in light of it, but you can't obligated God to yourself by surrendering.
Are you saying, because the word "believe" is used in Jn 6, that's what obligates God, not the word surrender?
JN. 6:29
English mistranslation : "This is the work of God, that you "believe" (mistranslation) in whom he sent."
Correct Greek translation : This is the work of God, that you "continually surrender your lives" to whom He sent
I should have just used the word "surrender" to replace the word "believe". But I added the words "continual and lives" because that's also part of the true meaning of "pisteuo." We in English can't define "pisteuo" in one word, we have to use multiple words to get it's entire meaning.
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The Greek word "pisteuo" was mistranslated into English , using the words believe, believer, and believing. The reason this was done is because the English language has no verb for the noun, "Faith". To have a verb that corresponds with the Noun "Faith," we just need to add the er, ing, and the e endings to the Noun "Faith" and we would have Faither, Faithing, and to Faithe. Since we didn't have these words available to the translators, they had to choose other words, believe, believer, and believing. These words are a part of what NT pisteuo or Faithing is, but only a part. By themselves they create a false path, thinking all we have to do is "believe", to have a personal relationship with Christ.
Interestingly enough, the definition for a verb, is an action , based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The translators not only had to use a word that only partially defined Pisteuo, but they accually used the definition of what a verb is. Interesting!
The true complete meaning of the Greek word pisteuo used 248 times in the NT is,
1) "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender. "
What is it were surrendering to Him?
What does it mean by a life inspired by such surrender?
Is this a one time act, or is it continuous?
These are some good questions to be asking our selves.
Interestingly enough, the definition for a verb, is an action , based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The translators not only had to use a word that only partially defined Pisteuo, but they accually used the definition of what a verb is. Interesting!
The true complete meaning of the Greek word pisteuo used 248 times in the NT is,
1) "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender. "
What is it were surrendering to Him?
What does it mean by a life inspired by such surrender?
Is this a one time act, or is it continuous?
These are some good questions to be asking our selves.
If they went by your standard there would be very few allowed to post.
Work away "Faither."
:doh:
journey
New member
There are many false posts on TOL, including your posts. Post your sources and full definitions. We both already know that your definition is NOT from Strong's or Vine's - as you claim.
It is rather obvious how "Faither" arrived at his notion - AA.
He bought into its' absolute surrender principle together with its pagan higher power concept.
At some point, as with Mormons, and Buddhists, and Charismatics (most Christians are Charismatic in their basic "Spirit's leading" belief), he began to believe he "felt led by God," and here we are...
To that, he added reading about and googling for some kind of understanding of what he was going through...
His view is not new - it is all over the internet.
All this together has been taken by him as "the Spirit's leading..."
Thus, both his strong conviction, and his great exasperation that anyone here is not hearing this great voice in the wilderness he has ended up convinced he is.
But what it all boils down to is the exact same logic behind the drinker's "just one drink," and what that leads to for such an individual.
Bottomline, the poor guy has ended up trading "addictions."
And we all know the great difficulty facing anyone attempting to reason with a drunk.
Its regretable I have to lay all this out. But perhaps some other "drunk" will at least recognize him or herself in the above, lay down their Bible thumping and take up the Grace that is in Christ Jesus.
One can only hope...
genuineoriginal
New member
Here are the official definitions of πιστεύω pisteuō, and your definition is not in them:
πιστεύω pisteuō - G4100
The KJV translates Strongs G4100 in the following manner: believe (239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).
- to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
- of the thing believed
- to credit, have confidence
- in a moral or religious reference
- used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
- to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
- mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
- of the thing believed
- to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
- to be intrusted with a thing
Strong's Definitions
πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
Belief, Believe, Believers:
"to believe," also "to be persuaded of," and hence, "to place confidence in, to trust," signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence. It is most frequent in the writings of the Apostle John, especially the Gospel. He does not use the noun (see below). For the Lord's first use of the verb, see Jhn 1:50. Of the writers of the Gospels, Matthew uses the verb ten times, Mark ten, Luke nine, John ninety-nine. In Act 5:14 the present participle of the verb is translated "believers."
See COMMIT, INTRUST, TRUST.
"to believe," also "to be persuaded of," and hence, "to place confidence in, to trust," signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence. It is most frequent in the writings of the Apostle John, especially the Gospel. He does not use the noun (see below). For the Lord's first use of the verb, see Jhn 1:50. Of the writers of the Gospels, Matthew uses the verb ten times, Mark ten, Luke nine, John ninety-nine. In Act 5:14 the present participle of the verb is translated "believers."
See COMMIT, INTRUST, TRUST.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
Spoiler
37),38{a}; τοῖς ἔργοις of Christ, John 10:38{b}. to the teachings of evangelists and apostles, Acts 8:12; τῇ ἀλήθεια, 2 Thessalonians 2:12; ἐπιστεύθη τό μαρτύριον, the testimony was believed, 2 Thessalonians 1:10 (cf. Winers Grammar, § 39,1 a.; Buttmann, 175 (152)); τῇ γραφή, John 2:22. ἐν τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ, to put faith in the gospel, Mark 1:15 (Buttmann, 174 (151f); cf. Winers Grammar, 213 (200f)) (Ignatius ad Philad. 8, 2 [ET] ((but see Zahn's note); cf. John 3:15 in γ. below)). γ. used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i. e. "a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah — the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ": πιστεύω τόν υἱόν τοῦ Θεοῦ εἶναι Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, Acts 8:37 Rec.; ἐπιστεύθη (was believed on (cf. Winers Grammar, § 39, 1 a.; Buttmann, 175 (152))) ἐν κόσμῳ, 1 Timothy 3:16. the phrase πιστεύειν εἰς τόν Ἰησοῦν, εἰς τόν υἱόν τοῦ Θεοῦ, etc., is very common; properly, to have a faith directed unto, believing or in faith to give oneself up to, Jesus, etc. (cf. Winers Grammar, 213 (200f); (Buttmann, 174 (151))): Matthew 18:6; Mark 9:42 (R G L Tr text); John 2:11; John 3:15 R G,; (R G L); ,(),; ,(); ; Acts 10:43; Acts 19:4; Romans 10:14; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 1:29; 1 John 5:10; 1 Peter 1:8; εἰς τό φῶς, John 12:36; εἰς τό ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, John 1:12; John 2:23; John 3:18; 1 John 5:13; τῷ ὀνόματι αὐτοῦ, to commit oneself trustfully to the name (see ὄνομα, 2, p. 448a), 1 John 3:23; ἐπ' αὐτόν, ἐπί τόν κύριον, to have a faith directed toward, etc. (see ἐπί, C. I. 2 g. α., p. 235b (cf. Winers Grammar, and Buttmann, as above, also Buttmann, § 147, 25)): Matthew 27:42 T Tr text WH; John 3:15 L text; Acts 9:42; Acts 11:17; Acts 16:31; Acts 22:19 ((cf. Wis. 12:2)); ἐπ' αὐτῷ, to build one's faith on, to place one's faith upon (see ἐπί, B. 2 a.γ., p. 233a; Buttmann, as above): Romans 9:33; Romans 10:11; 1 Timothy 1:16; 1 Peter 2:6; ἐν αὐτῷ, to put faith in him, John 3:15 (L marginal reading; cf. T Tr WH also (who probably connect ἐν αὐτῷ with the following ἔχῃ; cf. Westcott's Commentary at the passage, Meyer, others)) (cf. Jeremiah 12:6; Psalm 77:22 (), where πιστεύειν ἐν τίνι means to put confidence in one, to trust one; (cf. Mark 1:15 above, β. at the end)); ἐν τούτῳ πιστεύομεν, on this rests our faith (A. V. by this we believe), John 16:30; with the simple dative, τῷ κυρίῳ, to (yield faith to) believe (cf. B. 173 (151)): Matthew 27:42 R G L Tr marginal reading; Acts 5:14; Acts 18:8; supply τούτῳ before οὗ in Romans 10:14; to trust in Christ (God), 2 Timothy 1:12; διά τίνος, through one's agency to be brought to faith, John 1:7; 1 Corinthians 3:5; διά Ἰησοῦ εἰς Θεόν, 1 Peter 1:21 R G Tr marginal reading; διά τῆς χάριτος, Acts 18:27; διά τοῦ λόγου αὐτῶν εἰς ἐμέ, John 17:20; διά τί, John 4:39 (), ; . πιστεύω followed by ὅτι with a sentence in which either the nature and dignity of Christ or his blessings are set forth: John 6:69; John 8:24; John 10:38c R G; ,(); ; (); ; 1 John 5:1, 5; Romans 6:8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14; μοι ὅτι, John 14:11; τί, John 11:26; πιστεύω σωθῆναι, Acts 15:11; the simple πιστεύειν is used emphatically, of those who acknowledge Jesus as the saviour and devote themselves to him: Mark 15:32 (here L adds αὐτῷ); Luke 8:12; Luke 22:67; John 1:50(); f; Rec.; ; Acts 5:14; (); ; (); Romans 1:16; Romans 3:22; Romans 4:11; Romans 10:4; Romans 15:13; 2 Corinthians 4:13; Ephesians 1:13,(); 2 Thessalonians 1:10; Hebrews 4:3; with ἐξ ὅλης καρδίας added, Acts 8:37 Rec.; with a dative of instrumentality καρδία, Romans 10:10; participle present οἱ πιστεύοντες, as a substantive: Acts 2:44; Romans 3:22; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 3:22; (Ephesians 1:19); 1 Thessalonians 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 2:10, 13; 2 Thessalonians 1:10 Rec.; 1 Peter 2:7; equivalent to who are on the point of believing, 1 Corinthians 14:22, cf. 1 Corinthians 14:24f; aorist ἐπίστευσα (marking entrance into a state; see βασιλεύω, at the end), I became a believer, a Christian (A. V. believed): Acts 4:4; Acts 8:13; Acts 13:12, 48; Acts 14:1; Acts 15:7; Acts 17:12, 34; Romans 13:11; 1 Corinthians 3:5; 1 Corinthians 15:2, 11; with the addition of ἐπί τόν κύριον (see above), Acts 9:42; participle πιστεύσας, Acts 11:21; Acts 19:2; ὁ πιστεύσας, Mark 16:16; plural, ; Acts 4:32; οἱ πεπιστευκότες, they that have believed (have become believers): Acts 19:18; Acts 21:20; (on (John's use of) the tenses of πιστεύω see Westcott on 1 John 3:23). It must be borne in mind, that in Paul's conception of τό πιστεύειν εἰς Χριστόν, the prominent element is the grace of God toward sinners as manifested and pledged (and to be laid hold of by faith) in Jesus, particularly in his death and resurrection, as appears especially in Romans 3:25; Romans 4:24; Romans 10:9; 1 Thessalonians 4:14; but in John's conception, it is the metaphysical relationship of Christ with God and close ethical intimacy with him, as well as the true 'life' to be derived from Christ as its source; cf. Rückert, Das Abendmahl, p. 251. Moreover, πιστεύειν is used by John of various degrees of faith, from its first beginnings, its incipient stirring within the soul, up to the fullest assurance, John 2:23 (cf. John 2:24); ; of a faith which does not yet recognize Jesus as the Messiah, but as a prophet very like the Messiah, John 7:31; and to signify that one's faith is preserved, strengthened, increased, raised to the level which it ought to reach, ; 1 John 5:13b Rec.; (cf. references under the word πίστις, at the end). is applied also to the faith by which one is persuaded that Jesus was raised from the dead, inasmuch as by that fact God declared him to be his Son and the Messiah: John 20:8, 25, 29; πιστεύσῃς ἐν τῇ καρδία σου ὅτι ὁ Θεός αὐτόν ἤγειρεν ἐκ νεκρῶν σωθήσῃ, Romans 10:9 (cf. Buttmann, § 133, 19). Since according to the conception of Christian faith Christ alone is the author of salvation, ὁ πιστεύων repudiates all the various things which aside from Christ are commended as means of salvation (such e. g. as abstinence from flesh and wine), and understands that all things are lawful to him which do not lead him away from Christ; hence, πιστεύει (τίς) φαγεῖν πάντα, hath faith to eat all things or so that he eats all things, Romans 14:2; cf. Rückert at the passage; (Winers Grammar, § 44,3 b.; per contra Buttmann, 273f (235)). δ. πιστεύειν used in reference to God has various senses: αα. it denotes the mere acknowledgment of his existence: ὅτι ὁ Θεός εἷς ἐστιν, James 2:19; acknowledgment joined to appropriate trust, absolutely, Jude 1:5; εἰς Θεόν, John 12:44; John 14:1; equivalent to to believe and embrace what God has made known either through Christ or concerning Christ: τῷ Θεῷ, John 5:24; Acts 16:34; Titus 3:8; 1 John 5:10; ἐπί τόν Θεόν, Romans 4:5; τήν ἀγάπην, ἥν ἔχει ὁ Θεός, 1 John 4:16; εἰς τήν μαρτυρίαν, ἥν κτλ., 1 John 5:10. ββ. to trust: τῷ Θεῷ, God promising a thing, Romans 4:3, 17 (on which see κατέναντι); Galatians 3:6; (James 2:23); absolutely, Romans 4:18; followed by ὅτι, Acts 27:25. ε. πιστεύειν is used in an ethical sense, of confidence in the goodness of men: ἡ ἀγάπη πιστεύει πάντα, 1 Corinthians 13:7. τό πιστεύειν is opposed to ἰδεῖν, John 20:29; to ὁρᾶν, ibid. and 1 Peter 1:8 (Theophilus ad Autol. 1, 7 at the end), cf. 2 Corinthians 5:7; to διακρίνεσθαι, Romans 4:19; Romans 14:1, 23, cf. James 1:6; to ὁμολογεῖν, Romans 10:9.
genuineoriginal
New member
I am using the advanced editor, but I do not use the WYSIWYG mode.
I copied the definitions from blueletterbible, except the Thayer's definitions which I copied from biblehub.
I pasted the copied definitions directly into the advanced editor, made a couple of formatting changes, but did not change the font at all, and submitted them.