Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is God Moral?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I promised earlier that I would offer my own view of why God is moral.
    However, I've written (or begun to write) my response in my own Big Picture thread. Links below, cick on the blue buttons. Feel free to comment here or in my thread.

    Originally posted by Desert Reign View Post
    Hi All, again.
    In this post, I am going to try to answer Clete's question 'Is God Moral?'
    Originally posted by Desert Reign View Post
    OK, so I will try to answer two basic questions.
    1. Why is it that some actions can be judged in terms of morality? Why do we think it right to judge actions at all?
    2. When we make such judgements, where do we get the criteria to use for them? Answering this question also answers a related question: why do we perceive certain actions as intrinsically right or wrong? In other words why do some actions speak for themselves as to their rightness or wrongness?
    Total Misanthropy.
    Uncertain salvation.
    Luck of the draw.
    Irresistible damnation.
    Persecution of the saints.

    Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so.
    (The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

    RevTestament: It doesn't matter to me too much that the "New Testament wasn't written in Hebrew.
    Dialogos: Calvin, as a sinner, probably got some things wrong.
    Brandplucked: I'm shocked that other people disagree with me.

    Comment


    • Thought-provoking post. Glad to see the Gordon H. Clark/John W. Robbins reference, too.

      Yes. God is moral.

      The way I see it, if God were not moral, then who (or what) is (or could be) moral? And, were nobody, nor anything, moral, I can't see how it could ever be meaningful to say 'x is moral'--nor even how it could be meaningful to say 'x is not moral', or (in other words) 'x is immoral'. I take it that something has to be moral for something else to be immoral--although, I don't take it that, just because something is moral, something else has to be immoral.

      Originally posted by Clete View Post
      God is real, therefore God is rational, therefore God is moral!
      I agree that God is real, and that God is rational, and that God is moral. But I have a bit of difficulty with the "therefore"s, here. For, is not Satan real, also? Yet, who'd be willing to say "[Satan] is real, therefore [Satan] is rational, therefore [Satan] is moral"? Or, who'd be willing to say, of (say) Mt. McKinley (which, I take it, is real), "[Mt. McKinley] is real, therefore [Mt. McKinley] is rational, therefore [Mt. McKinley] is moral"?

      Originally posted by Clete View Post
      ...what is moral is so because it is God like.
      True. And what is more God-like than God, Himself?





      All my ancestors are human.
      PS: All your ancestors are human.
      PPS: To all you cats, dogs, monkeys, and other assorted house pets whose masters are outsourcing the task of TOL post-writing to you (we know who you are )– you may disregard the PS.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Old man View Post


        Is the Pope Catholic?
        Which Pope do you mean?

        And, are you asking if he, himself, believes and practices the things which he promulgates, "ex cathedra", calls "Catholicism", and expects everybody else to believe and practice?
        All my ancestors are human.
        PS: All your ancestors are human.
        PPS: To all you cats, dogs, monkeys, and other assorted house pets whose masters are outsourcing the task of TOL post-writing to you (we know who you are )– you may disregard the PS.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Clete View Post

          Do you not consider God to be good?

          Or is that not our call either?
          In another thread, certain things that transpired prompted me to ask a particular TOL poster:

          "Is God good? Yes or No?"

          Though he never answered, "No, God is not good", nevertheless, he also absolutely refused to answer, "Yes, God is good". And, in his performance of stonewalling against my question, one of his reactions to my asking it was to say some pretentious thing like, "It's not my place to judge the character of God." His persistent refusal to answer my simple, yes-or-no question, "Is God good?", with a prompt "Yes!", I took to be him answering my question in the negative. That is, I took him, therein, to be judging the character of God as not good--while he was hypocritically pretending that he does not judge the character of God.
          All my ancestors are human.
          PS: All your ancestors are human.
          PPS: To all you cats, dogs, monkeys, and other assorted house pets whose masters are outsourcing the task of TOL post-writing to you (we know who you are )– you may disregard the PS.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post

            In another thread, certain things that transpired prompted me to ask a particular TOL poster:

            "Is God good? Yes or No?"



            Though he never answered, "No, God is not good", nevertheless, he also absolutely refused to answer, "Yes, God is good". And, in his performance of stonewalling against my question, one of his reactions to my asking it was to say some pretentious thing like, "It's not my place to judge the character of God." His persistent refusal to answer my simple, yes-or-no question, "Is God good?", with a prompt "Yes!", I took to be him answering my question in the negative. That is, I took him, therein, to be judging the character of God as not good--while he was hypocritically pretending that he does not judge the character of God.
            People are so infinitely creative at swallowing gnat free camels!

            Was it David's place to judge the character of God when he said...
            `
            "The goodness of God endures continually." -Psalms 52
            "Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever." - Psalms 119 & 136
            "Teach me to do Your will, For You are my God; Your Spirit is good." - Pslams 143

            `
            And that's just one author in just one book of the bible that I found is ten seconds with a word search of "God good" on BibleGateway! Imagine what I'd find if I spent some real time looking for it!
            Further, does he think it good to not call God good? If we cannot say that God is good then what can be called good?

            And besides all that, just the sentiment that it isn't his place to judge the character of God implies that God is in some way better than or above him. In other words, he is, as you said, tacitly judging the character of God.

            How is it possible for people to get themselves twisted into such convoluted knots?

            Clete

            sigpic
            "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

            Comment


            • I've often asked people who speak about the destruction of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah as horrendous what they think of the possibility that God rained down fire and brimstone upon them to prevent the extinction of the human race from earth by A.I.D.S.. It just might very well be the reason He had to let them be destroyed. God isn't just Good, He's Holy. That's WAY beyond good or moral, it's un-thinkable for any being BUT Him. Only He is Holy.
              "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

              If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                I've often asked people who speak about the destruction of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah as horrendous what they think of the possibility that God rained down fire and brimstone upon them to prevent the extinction of the human race from earth by A.I.D.S.. It just might very well be the reason He had to let them be destroyed. God isn't just Good, He's Holy. That's WAY beyond good or moral, it's un-thinkable for any being BUT Him. Only He is Holy.
                I didn't notice this post until this morning. Sorry! I wasn't trying to ignore your post.

                There's two things here....

                1. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing to do with A.I.D.S. - at all. The disease is spread through sodomy, it isn't caused by it. There is no evidence that the human form of the disease existed at all prior to the early 1980s. Further, the virus has exactly zero chance of causing "the extinction of the human race from earth" under any circumstances whatsoever. Not even the H1N1 Influenza or Ebola viruses could do that. That just isn't the way viruses work.

                2. Depending on the context, the word 'holy' can mean several things but in the context of God's character, it's a single word way of saying that God is perfectly righteous, wise, just, etc and is thus worthy of our complete devotion and worship. If you want to take that to mean its "beyond good and moral" then I can see that but the thing I want to make clear is that there is no such thing as being "suprarighteous" in the sense of being above or beyond righteousness. Such an idea has no meaning. In fact, the concept has the effect of rendering God unrighteous and unjust because it implies that the definition of the word 'righteous' does not apply to God, which is what it means to be unrighteous. Christians who teach such concepts, (often Calvinists) end up teaching that God is arbitrary which is the opposite of being just. Put simply, God cannot do anything at all and remain righteous. On the contrary, God is righteous because He acts rightly. For example, if God were to declare that murder was allowed on every fourth Thursday of the month, He would be unrighteous, by definition. The reason God doesn't do such things, isn't because He has arbitrarily decided what justice and righteousness are but because He is Life and acts in a manner consistent with His own nature. If you act in a manner that is proper to life, then you do not murder or steal or in some other way act in a manner that that negates, opposes or otherwise destroys either your own life or the lives of those around you. In short, if you act in a manner that is proper to life, you act righteously.
                sigpic
                "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

                Comment


                • I'll still hold to my belief that something extremely important was wiped out by God's Holy Fire falling upon Sodom and Gomorrah. It had to be something that would have otherwise caused worse trouble had it not been wiped out when it was. I just don't even want to think about what they might have fallen into; though I'm sure it was even worse than San Francisco.
                  "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

                  If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                    I'll still hold to my belief that something extremely important was wiped out by God's Holy Fire falling upon Sodom and Gomorrah. It had to be something that would have otherwise caused worse trouble had it not been wiped out when it was. I just don't even want to think about what they might have fallen into; though I'm sure it was even worse than San Francisco.
                    Well, I suppose such a stance is acceptable so long as you do yourself the favor of remembering that it is speculation and not anything that you can make any sort of dogmatic stand upon.

                    I rather think that is had more to do with protecting Israel from moral corruption than it had to do with anything biological or anything else that was global in scope. After all, Sodom and Gomorrah weren't the only two places on Earth where people were doing very very evil things.
                    sigpic
                    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X