ECT Why Paul?

heir

TOL Subscriber
If Saul of Tarsus was God's enemy, he would not have repented.

If? He was God's biggest enemy (chief of sinners) leading the persecution of those of "this way".
Paul erred out of ignorance, not out of ill will towards God.
That neither changes the fact that he was God's enemy nor did it excuse it (Matthew 12:31-32 KJV). The grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant (1 Timothy 1:14 KJV)! Paul obtained mercy that in him first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should thereafter ("hereafter") believe on him to life everlasting (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV). It's proof that God will save ANYONE today when they trust the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.


The first here is not the first in time.(foremost is not the first)

the pattern was of longsuffering, which the Apostles and prophets before Paul experienced before Paul.

Even Steven suffered before Paul--

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
You missed it. Paul was the first/a pattern to shew forth the Lord's ALL LONGSUFFERING! A pattern does not follow another, but is the prototype to be followed.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.


The first here is not the first in time.(foremost is not the first)

You are a clown. The longsuffering was by the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul believed in it. Paul obtained mercy. He was the pattern. That means he is the first to obtain mercy and believe. Why don't you just believe what it says?
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
If? He was God's biggest enemy (chief of sinners) leading the persecution of those of "this way".That neither changes the fact that he was God's enemy nor did it excuse it (Matthew 12:31-32 KJV). The grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant (1 Timothy 1:14 KJV)! Paul obtained mercy that in him first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should thereafter ("hereafter") believe on him to life everlasting (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV). It's proof that God will save ANYONE today when they trust the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).

Surely, he had the attributes of an enemy, yet, I have yet to see a verse where God used that term to describe him as an enemy.

Indeed, he did do horrible things to the believers, but where is he actually called an enemy?

He persecuted the way, that is certain, Romans 12:14 tells us that even today, some believers persecute other believers

Saul, it could be said, indirectly is referred to as an enemy, Romans 12:18-21, yes?

Have you ever been persecuted by other Christians who do not agree with your conclusions about what scripture teaches?

I have, yet I count them not as enemies

Galatians 4:16

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

2 Thessalonians 3:15

Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

James 4:4

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Was Paul educated in scripture? Yes, he was, was he doing his best to believe them as he understood them? Yes, he was.

Philippians 3:4-8

He sought God, but when he connected the dots, he realized that Jesus, whom he was persecuting, is the Christ.

he was looking for God in all the wrong places?

I do not wish to make this a major issue, but since God did not call him an enemy, I choose not to as well.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
The Lord already had his 12 men (Matthew 10:1-4 KJV) preaching the gospel of the kingdom/ the kingdom of heaven is at hand and later Matthias replaced Judas being numbered with the eleven (Acts 1:25-26 KJV) restoring the number of them to 12 who were preaching a gospel and will in the future judge the twelve tribes of Israel (Matthew 19:28). So then you have to ask yourself:


Why Paul?

Why did the Lord have to appear to Paul Himself if this was all the same good news?

Why not just send one of the 12?

Excellent question!
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Surely, he had the attributes of an enemy, yet, I have yet to see a verse where God used that term to describe him as an enemy.

Indeed, he did do horrible things to the believers, but where is he actually called an enemy?


I do not wish to make this a major issue, but since God did not call him an enemy, I choose not to as well.
Romans 5:10 KJV
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Don't you know?

Haven't you read any scripture?

Acts 26:15-18 sums it up quite nicely

What is required of you?

Oats, I have to be honest with you! I don't like you. I also don't
agree with most of what you have to say! Just to let you know where
you stand with me! God's written word says; (Romans 12:18)
"If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably
with all men." To me this verse means that, there comes a time
in one's life, when they'll come across certain individuals that,
they cannot live peacefully with! I have found some of those on
TOL! And, I'm sure they feel the same about me!

Honesty is the best policy! This doesn't mean there might come a time,
in the future, where I'll change my mind? But, for now that's where
my mindset is!
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Oats, I have to be honest with you! I don't like you. I also don't
agree with most of what you have to say! Just to let you know where
you stand with me! God's written word says; (Romans 12:18)
"If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably
with all men." To me this verse means that, there comes a time
in one's life, when they'll come across certain individuals that,
they cannot live peacefully with! I have found some of those on
TOL! And, I'm sure they feel the same about me!

Honesty is the best policy! This doesn't mean there might come a time,
in the future, where I'll change my mind? But, for now that's where
my mindset is!

Your opinion only effects your relationship with God if you have one.

Other people are not interested in your opinion.

and if you were interested in pleasing God then you would keep your negative opinions to yourself.

LA
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
He persecuted the church of God and wasted it. Galatians 1:13 KJV. Why would the Lord choose him after that?

God's foreknowledge and wisdom

God knew Saul's heart, Saul was seeking to serve God, but was in error in how to do it, much like popular Christianity today.

Romans 8:29

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

2 Timothy 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Ephesians 2:10

God foreknows the response of people when they are presented with truth.

Saul simply had not heard enough truth to believe yet. or rather accurate truth.

God is the searcher of hearts.

He looks on the heart, not the outward appearance.

He knows what you will have for breakfast tomorrow and your every thought all day long. He already knows how you will choose to respond to this post, whether you ignore or just read it or reply to it....

He foreknows if you will have digestive problems next week or not.

He foreknows it all. He wisely chooses based on that foreknowledge.

The ones He foreknows will believe, he elects, he chooses for his own.

He sees past our errors for he sees our righteousness he gave us.

He looked past Saul's errors and chose him for many reasons, Saul was a faithful man to what he believed, and when he learned that Jesus is the Christ, not a heretic, he was faithful to that truth.

Was Jesus a heretic? The contemporary religious elite thought so.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Romans 5:10 KJV

Good answer!

We were all enemies, that would include Saul of Tarsus.

Then why did he choose you or me, seeing that we were enemies?

As I pointed out, does scripture name Saul and directly say that he is an enemy, no that I have found.

Yet, as you point out, he is included with you and me and Gm and all those who have believed

You, heir, are not directly named as an enemy.

Yet you were, even as Saul was
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Oats, I have to be honest with you! I don't like you. I also don't
agree with most of what you have to say! Just to let you know where
you stand with me! God's written word says; (Romans 12:18)
"If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably
with all men." To me this verse means that, there comes a time
in one's life, when they'll come across certain individuals that,
they cannot live peacefully with! I have found some of those on
TOL! And, I'm sure they feel the same about me!

Honesty is the best policy! This doesn't mean there might come a time,
in the future, where I'll change my mind? But, for now that's where
my mindset is!

I am not as kind as many of my teachers.

For you not to know Acts 26:15-18 disappoints me.

For all your hubris, I would have expected something better of you.

All us needed a savior, including you.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
:chuckle:

According to the bible the judging in the future Kingdom will be given to many more people that the twelve--

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

and their number is not restricted to the Jews.

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
How about predictions of beheadings?

You mock with the aim of doing satans will.

Why do you not know the difference between service to Christ and service to the flesh.

As I had said, the ones on thrones given judgment in the Kingdom are those beheaded for Christ.

LA
 
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