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  • #61
    Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

    I go by the Hebrew Bible concerning the Old Testament.
    actually you don’t do that either...your another gospel another christ

    So don't talk to me about other books and peoples as proof of anything.

    And, nothing you said takes away the fact that the Sabbath was a shadow of Jesus.
    EXCEPT for the historical references which proved Sabbath keeping continued and Christians were granted ability to leave Jerusalems BEFORE the gates were closed EVERY DAY and not just on Sabbath as they were under a months long siege

    Oh and the very Hebrew Bible you claim to go by...that takes away your idolatrous another gospel from another christ who has a fickle father with a faltering law...



    Jesus is the gives us the Sabbath Rest and the Bible explains it.
    fixed it for you as to what the Bible explains...



    The Bible doesn't say that, but you keep lying and saying it does.

    You repeat what your false teachers said and claim it is what the Bible says.
    Acts 1:3 lists NOTHING of your another gospel another christ heresy that “every day is Holy we can eat swine now”...



    Again, pray it is not on the Sabbath does not say anything about so the Sabbath won't be broken, it is because Jesus said to flee to the mountains. Jerusalem's gates are closed on the Sabbath. So you think it is so the Sabbath won't be broken---is it so the winter won't be broken either? lol
    lol...and winter is one day? See you make yourself laugh how rediculous your claim is...

    Yahushua makes clear the future times of trouble will last longer than ONE DAY...verse 19 “woe to those...in those days”
    Verse 22 “and unless those days were shortened”...

    Yahushua knew fleeing times would be provided ON OTHER DAYS...which historically WAS PROVEN

    Yahushua also knew times of trouble lasted many days...months and years in the case of Jerusalem’s siege by Rome...

    But you insist it was only on the Sabbath that the gates were closed so they couldnt flee on Sabbaths...LOL

    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    Yup both winters times and Sabbath times were EXPECTED to continue...as even James made clear in Acts 15:21 “For Moses has had...those preach and read...EVERY SABBATH”


    No, but you are.
    hilarious? Nawwww...silly maybe...to keep this up with you...

    You are stiff necked and hardened to your own clever idolatry...your “every day is Holy eat whatever” another gospel another christ...

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
      Love vs Obedience. The very title of this thread is a fallacy.
      yup...glad I didnt come up with it

      Jesus proved it is a fallacy for Jesus is God, and God is love. So in Jesus we see love and obedience at perfect levels.
      is why when we love AS He did we uphold the Law...but if we do NOT love JUST AS He did we do NOT uphold the law...

      for instance lets say I love you and invite your family over for dinner...and serve you Ham...hmmm did Jesus do that ever? Nope...so my love would NOT be like His...

      Or if I loved you and employed you/your family yet made you work 7 days of the week...would a loving Jesus do that? Nope He provided a seventh day of rest...

      and so it goes...Love AS He did and well of course you uphold the Law...as He did...


      Jesus never sinned, so He obeyed His Father perfectly. Obeyed the law perfectly. Jesus' life proves love and obedience go hand in hand. That they are not contrary to one another. Galatians 5 also proves this.
      would you believe there are some who actually think Jesus broke the Sabbath thereby violated His Father’s will? Which is a sin! Invalidating Him as a suitable sacrifice...

      yup they claim He broke the Sabbath proving it WAS TO BE BROKEN or done away with or something...as if the other 9 commandments were done away with too...

      yup many also claim that AND that they love Jesus but dont need to live like He did...just follow the Spirit...which guides them into NOT keeping His IMMUTABLE Law?



      In other words the fruit of the Spirit is in violation of no law, including God's law, the 10 commandments.
      I do agree...but again many actually think and insist that the Spirit DOES NOT want us to KEEP/DO His Will...that somehow the Spirit guides us CONTRARY to AS Yahushua lived...or as Yah wants of His people

      Like we were taught by a tutor but when we graduate to “IN HIM BY THE INDWELLING SPIRIT” we go contrary to what we were taught...LOL

      Yup...it baffles me how easily they claim the SPIRIT has them live CONTRARY to the 10 commandments...well specifically the Sabbath

      Most christians are cool about the other 9 laws but mention that Sabbath one and suddenly it’s “AWWW HELL NO!...we are free from the Law...under Grace...that was done away with!” or “NOT FOR ME!!” As if worshipping the True God with false worship is acceptable in the New Covenant...

      Imagine that...a day off...REJECTED...LOL who does that? Oh yeah disobedient ones with a spirit of rebellion their father of lies claims as well “NOT FOR ME”...he too believes but does NOT obey

      Most just want the PROMISE but reject the Law that states their right to it...

      as if we make void the Law by our faith...we are to ESTABLISH it says Paul Romans 3:31

      Yup you are correct “fruit of the Spirit is in violation of no law”...

      as this is BY His Spirit...which is our comfort and guide IF we let Him be

      and BECAUSE we Love Him AS He loved us...JUST AS
      Last edited by clefty; July 28, 2020, 08:48 AM.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by clefty View Post

        I do NOT
        You accused me of being a false witness and I said that is what you do.

        Originally posted by clefty View Post

        claim Paul wrote Sabbath was a shadow..
        Paul does say the Sabbath is a shadow.

        Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.


        Originally posted by clefty View Post

        .Paul wrote these ceremonial laws ARE/IS a shadow of good THINGS not a PERSON to come...

        Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


        Originally posted by clefty View Post

        even after DBR and ascension of Yahushua...even STILL to come to day...Sabbath the weekly one was NOT even included in this list...of shadows of the good still to come
        All Sabbaths are included, and no such scripture saying except the one Clefty is talking about.


        Originally posted by clefty View Post
        I do NOT claim Yahushua is a calendar day...He does provide rest however as He is Lord of the Sabbath made for man...a Sabbatismos remains for His people Heb 4:9 of which YOU ARE NOT as you reject it...
        That scripture is explaining that Jesus is the Sabbath Rest.

        Jesus is the good that came and no more shifting shadows in light.

        No one has to get circumcised in the flesh anymore, and adhere to a dietary law, observe special days, go to a high priest and earthly temple, do various external washings, and sacrifice animals.

        Hebrew 8 1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

        The New Covenant

        7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

        8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:



        According to you, the shadow is still the only thing as we wait for Jesus to come.



        Originally posted by clefty View Post

        I do NOT make things up like Jesus disclosed SECRET knowledge to His disciples as He saw fit...
        Go study about when this happened.

        Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself


        Here is another scripture that rebukes you.

        John 12:16 At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

        Comment


        • #64
          clefty ,

          The Sabbath rest is Jesus Christ. This is for all THEN AND NOW.

          A Sabbath-Rest for God's People


          1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

          3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

          4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

          7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

          8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
          Last edited by God's Truth; July 28, 2020, 12:50 PM.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
            You accused me of being a false witness and I said that is what you do.
            Luke said Jews who claimed it was taught "Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered" were FALSE WITNESSES...that is EXACLTY what you claim so even LUKE would call you a false witness as you claim the same false witness that Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...



            Paul does say the Sabbath is a shadow.
            YAY you are correct...usually you say Sabbath WAS a shadow...which Paul did NOT write...

            Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
            king jimmy says clearly Col 2:17 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

            you see the small "s" on the sabbath and the other "s" ending it making it a PLURAL? as in MORE THAN ONE SABBATH...?

            king jimmy knew that all the annual feasts were sabbaths...neat eh? the WEEKLY sabbath is the Sabbath...





            Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
            do you see the italicized "IS"...is cuz it is added to make up the agenda that shadow is of Christ...

            but as was repeatedly denied by you Paul write "Let no one judge you...but the Body of Christ"...but as per usual you ignore and get MAD




            All Sabbaths are included, and no such scripture saying except the one Clefty is talking about.
            lol...you are fun...




            That scripture is explaining that Jesus is the Sabbath Rest.

            Jesus is the good that came and no more shifting shadows in light.

            No one has to get circumcised in the flesh anymore, and adhere to a dietary law, observe special days, go to a high priest and earthly temple, do various external washings, and sacrifice animals.

            Hebrew 8 1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

            The New Covenant

            7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

            8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:



            According to you, the shadow is still the only thing as we wait for Jesus to come.





            Go study about when this happened.

            Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself


            Here is another scripture that rebukes you.

            John 12:16 At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by clefty View Post
              Luke said Jews who claimed it was taught "Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered" were FALSE WITNESSES...that is EXACLTY what you claim so even LUKE would call you a false witness as you claim the same false witness that Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...
              The Jews that rejected Jesus didn’t want people to believe in Jesus because there would be no more need for an earthly temple and Pharisees and teachers of the law.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by clefty View Post
                YAY you are correct...usually you say Sabbath WAS a shadow...which Paul did NOT write...
                The Sabbath was a shadow according to Paul who says the Sabbath is a shadow.
                You don’t have understanding.
                The old law was a shadow and included the weekly observance of the Sabbath day.
                There is no more old law it is obsolete, so the Sabbath was a shadow.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by clefty View Post
                  Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
                  king jimmy says clearly Col 2:17 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

                  you see the small "s" on the sabbath and the other "s" ending it making it a PLURAL? as in MORE THAN ONE SABBATH...?

                  king jimmy knew that all the annual feasts were sabbaths...neat eh? the WEEKLY sabbath is the Sabbath...
                  There is a Sabbath day every week.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by clefty View Post
                    Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
                    do you see the italicized "IS"...is cuz it is added to make up the agenda that shadow is of Christ...
                    With an ‘is’ or not, it doesn’t change the truth. The shadow is of Christ.
                    That is what the scripture says.

                    Originally posted by clefty View Post

                    but as was repeatedly denied by you Paul write "Let no one judge you...but the Body of Christ"...but as per usual you ignore and get MAD
                    Here Paul says plainly that the eating and drinking and holydays and new moon and sabbath days ARE SHADOWS.

                    Colossians 2 :16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

                    17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ


                    Here is a scripture that says THE LAW has a shadow.


                    Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.


                    So your twisting of the scripture Colossians 2:1 is proven even more so of a twist.

                    Comment


                    • #70

                      Originally posted by clefty View Post
                      lol...you are fun...
                      These scriptures plainly explain that Jesus is the Sabbath Rest.

                      Jesus is the good that came and no more shifting shadows in light.

                      Hebrew 8 1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest,



                      Did you read that? WE HAVE A HIGH PRIEST---not to come, but we have a High Priest.

                      4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things,



                      Did you read that? The temple, the priests, the offerings, the law were all AN EXAMPLE---A SHADOW of the things in heaven.


                      The New Covenant

                      7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

                      8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


                      ; 9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

                      11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

                      16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

                      17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

                      18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.




                      According to you, the shadow is still the only thing as we wait for Jesus to come, EVEN THOUGH the scriptures SAY Jesus offered one sacrifice for ever and and sanctifies those who come to him to get saved.

                      Jesus came and we no longer go by shadows, we go by Jesus.


                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by clefty View Post


                        I do NOT make things up like Jesus disclosed SECRET knowledge to His disciples as He saw fit...

                        especially things like your another gospel another christ “every day is Holy eat whatever because ALL is clean to eat....”
                        Go study about when this happened.

                        Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself


                        Here is another scripture that rebukes you.

                        John 12:16 At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          The Jews that rejected Jesus didn’t want people to believe in Jesus because there would be no more need for an earthly temple and Pharisees and teachers of the law.
                          Even a broken clock gets it right twice a day...and a blind squirrel finds an acorn...certainly an oak tree? LOL

                          But yes this is EXACTLY one of the reasons WHY Jews wanted to stir up the people against Yahushua and His disciples/followers and to do so they taught EXACTLY what YOU do...”Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered”... which of course this was FALSE WITNESS as Luke made clear...in fact the Jewish rumors got so bad poor Paul had to make a VOW to PROVE he was NOT teaching what you do...”all that was a shadow gone away”

                          But yes BINGO Jews really hated Yahushua AND because He “encouraged the gentiles to crowd the synagogue”...or as Paul put it “Yahusha tore down the middle wall of division between us (he was a Jew writing goyim in Ephesus) and abolished in His flesh the enmity of the Jews for the goyim making a new creation of the two...joining them...”

                          So yes...good on you

                          Jews did NOT want THIS gospel of INCLUSION from THIS Christ the Hope of all Israel from since it was THIS ekklessia in the wilderness...

                          so they started rumors and slanders and false witness...which you now continue...LOL



                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                            The Sabbath was a shadow according to Paul who says the Sabbath is a shadow.
                            You don’t have understanding.
                            you just claimed something WAS because someone else said it still IS...LOL

                            You sure twist a lot...

                            The old law was a shadow and included the weekly observance of the Sabbath day.
                            Old Law still is...the Old Covenant is faded but His Law is now in our New Covenant circumcised hearts and Christ mind “inner jew”...ya dig? Paul did

                            There is no more old law it is obsolete, so the Sabbath was a shadow.
                            “Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua”

                            What is His faith? Buddha? Hindu? Muslim? Catholic? Protestant? Your “every day is Holy eat whatever”?

                            Sabbath makes you MAD...so sad

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                              There is a Sabbath day every week.
                              BRAVO...HALLELUYAH...FINALLY

                              There is a Sabbath day every week.

                              That looks so good...love how you came by it...

                              like your other one “when Jews and Gentiles believe and obey the same way”

                              so STOP pretending and teaching there isnt a Sabbath day every week by pretending all days of the week are Holy like it...

                              there are NOT seven Sabbath days in a week but there ARE seven annual sabbaths a year...

                              you even capitalized “S” and not “s” because the weekly Sabbath is written with a “S” and the annual ones are “s” sabbaths...

                              SO GLAD YOU UNDERSTAND...

                              HalleluYah...prayers are answered...

                              Hope you stop your lying and causing others to stumble around here with your 9/10ths obedient love...

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by clefty View Post

                                BRAVO...HALLELUYAH...FINALLY

                                There is a Sabbath day every week.

                                That looks so good...love how you came by it...
                                You are being misleading.

                                The Sabbath is SATURDAY.

                                Originally posted by clefty View Post

                                like your other one “when Jews and Gentiles believe and obey the same way”
                                Stop misusing the quote marks. This site has a quote feature so use it. You say I say things that I don't say.

                                As for Jews and Gentiles who want to get saved, they get saved the same way.

                                Originally posted by clefty View Post

                                so STOP pretending and teaching there isnt a Sabbath day every week by pretending all days of the week are Holy like it...
                                Sabbath means Saturday.

                                There is a Saturday every week.

                                We have to keep every day holy in the Lord.

                                Originally posted by clefty View Post

                                there are NOT seven Sabbath days in a week but there ARE seven annual sabbaths a year...

                                you even capitalized “S” and not “s” because the weekly Sabbath is written with a “S” and the annual ones are “s” sabbaths...
                                It makes no difference.
                                Originally posted by clefty View Post

                                SO GLAD YOU UNDERSTAND...

                                HalleluYah...prayers are answered...

                                Hope you stop your lying and causing others to stumble around here with your 9/10ths obedient love...
                                You use God's name in vain. That is a sin.

                                Comment

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