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  • #46
    clefty, I'm not reading what you post because you make up things I don't say.

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    • #47
      The topic of the thread is Love versus Obedience.

      There is no love without obedience.

      God says obeying Him is love.

      Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me,

      John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

      John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

      John 16:27
      For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God.

      ...and more.

      Comment


      • #48
        The works of the law that were are not to do anymore are these:

        The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.



        We are told not to do those works anymore. Those works will make you fall from grace.

        Those works used to make a person clean.

        Now obeying Jesus and having faith that his shed blood on the cross makes us clean.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
          The works of the law that were are not to do anymore are these:

          The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.



          We are told not to do those works anymore. Those works will make you fall from grace.

          Those works used to make a person clean.

          Now obeying Jesus and having faith that his shed blood on the cross makes us clean.
          Sabbath is one of the 10 commandments...but maybe you think we don't have to do those either? or just 9/10ths?

          Paul Peter and all in the first century kept the Sabbath...40 days He spent with them after His resurrection...5 weekends...

          NOT ONCE a change indicated...and 10 days later Pentecost...

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          • #50
            Originally posted by clefty View Post

            Sabbath is one of the 10 commandments...but maybe you think we don't have to do those either? or just 9/10ths?

            Paul Peter and all in the first century kept the Sabbath...40 days He spent with them after His resurrection...5 weekends...

            NOT ONCE a change indicated...and 10 days later Pentecost...
            The Sabbath was a shadow.

            Jesus is the Sabbath Rest.

            Jesus gave more understanding to his disciples as he saw fit.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

              The Sabbath was a shadow.
              NOT what Paul wrote...

              Jesus is the Sabbath Rest.
              NOT what He said...

              Jesus gave more understanding to his disciples as he saw fit.
              LOL...you just make it up as you go along

              also known as lying

              like the false witness of Jews who claim “Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered”

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by God's Truth View Post


                Jesus gave more understanding to his disciples as he saw fit.
                LOL...but Seriously...

                please consider that for centuries Jews preserved the Sabbath the highest holy day in their calendar...zealous to the point they lost battles because they would not fight on it...

                "The principal sources of our historical information about this ritual piety are the Apocryphal Books of the Maccabees and the works of Josephus Flavius. In I Maccabees (2:29-37), we find the following narrative about a Greek attack on the Jews:

                The [Greeks] arose, suddenly, to fall upon [the Jews] on Shabbat, saying to them: How long will you refuse to obey the king . . . . And the men in their midst did not raise their hands to hurl a stone or to silence them . . . and they fell upon them on Shabbat and killed all those in the cave . . . about 1,000 people.

                The deaths of 1,000 Jewish men, women, and children prompted Matthias and the Maccabees to respond. They decided, the text continues, that if they were again attacked on Shabbat, they would fight a defensive battle:

                They said to one another: If we all act as our brothers have, and refuse to defend our lives and beliefs, we will shortly be destroyed. They decided on that day: Whosoever will attack us on Shabbat, we will fight back; we will not die like our brothers in the caves.

                But, while the Jews now responded to attacks on Shabbat, they still refrained from responding to less imminent threats. Thus, the Syrian general Nicanor attempted to surprise the Maccabees by an attack on Shabbat (2 Maccabees 15:1-5), reasoning that the Jewish defenders would not begin to arm themselves until they actually came under attack on that day. He failed, but only because he lost the element of surprise for long enough to enable the defenders to reach their weapons."
                A reformulation of the law was clearly required.




                http://www.jewishideasdaily.com/5565...the-maccabees/


                and you wish to claim He did NOT see fit to MAKE IT CLEAR TO ANYBODY that He abolished the Sabbath?

                40 days He spent with them... that is 5 weekends...and NOTHING was declared recorded or even noted of a complete CHANGE to a centuries long tradition...

                What He saw fit to do was instruct prayers that the Sabbath be not broken in future times of trouble...not for self preservation or rapture or even the temple spared but that they not have to flee to break the Sabbath by the panic “run to the hills!”

                read the article? Fighting on the Sabbath was STILL an issue at 66 AD...Surely He could have “saw fit” to allow them that....

                Instead...we have NOTHING...no change of Sabbath keeping

                "as He saw fit" to what? go CONTRARY His Father's Law and Will and Way...?

                you are hilarious...LOL

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                  {John 14:21} The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me.

                  {John 14:23} Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them."
                  I like adding just a note.
                  In the above two sayings of Jesus, the verb obey is not used in my Arabic Gospel. Instead, the verb do is written; big difference.

                  In reality, when I do something as advised by someone else, he doesn't need to be my master. And, by doing this, I am not obeying him as a soldier should obey his top officer.
                  Even on earth, a true loving father doesn't command his beloved mature sons but he may advise them anytime necessary. And these sons don't see their loving father as their master/ruler, but they see him acting as a loving teacher who shares his knowledge with them.

                  Please don't worry if you can't get well what I say because it is usually related to the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit, which is a stranger spirit to billions in the world.


                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by KerimF View Post

                    I like adding just a note.
                    In the above two sayings of Jesus, the verb obey is not used in my Arabic Gospel. Instead, the verb do is written; big difference.
                    No, there is no difference.

                    Other scriptures you can't get out of say 'obedience'.

                    If you do what Jesus says to do then that is obeying.

                    Originally posted by KerimF View Post

                    In reality, when I do something as advised by someone else, he doesn't need to be my master. And, by doing this, I am not obeying him as a soldier should obey his top officer.
                    As Paul says, you are either a slave to sin or to righteousness that leads to salvation.


                    Originally posted by KerimF View Post

                    Even on earth, a true loving father doesn't command his beloved mature sons but he may advise them anytime necessary. And these sons don't see their loving father as their master/ruler, but they see him acting as a loving teacher who shares his knowledge with them.
                    God's love is conditional.

                    He says plainly that He loves those who love Him and that obedience is love.

                    Originally posted by KerimF View Post

                    Please don't worry if you can't get well what I say because it is usually related to the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit, which is a stranger spirit to billions in the world.
                    I don't believe you have the Holy Spirit if you speak against the written word of God and that all must go through Jesus to get saved.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by clefty View Post
                      NOT what Paul wrote...

                      NOT what He said...



                      LOL...you just make it up as you go along

                      also known as lying

                      like the false witness of Jews who claim “Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered”
                      That is what you do.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by clefty View Post

                        LOL...but Seriously...

                        please consider that for centuries Jews preserved the Sabbath the highest holy day in their calendar...zealous to the point they lost battles because they would not fight on it...

                        "The principal sources of our historical information about this ritual piety are the Apocryphal Books of the Maccabees and the works of Josephus Flavius. In I Maccabees (2:29-37), we find the following narrative about a Greek attack on the Jews:

                        The [Greeks] arose, suddenly, to fall upon [the Jews] on Shabbat, saying to them: How long will you refuse to obey the king . . . . And the men in their midst did not raise their hands to hurl a stone or to silence them . . . and they fell upon them on Shabbat and killed all those in the cave . . . about 1,000 people.

                        The deaths of 1,000 Jewish men, women, and children prompted Matthias and the Maccabees to respond. They decided, the text continues, that if they were again attacked on Shabbat, they would fight a defensive battle:

                        They said to one another: If we all act as our brothers have, and refuse to defend our lives and beliefs, we will shortly be destroyed. They decided on that day: Whosoever will attack us on Shabbat, we will fight back; we will not die like our brothers in the caves.

                        But, while the Jews now responded to attacks on Shabbat, they still refrained from responding to less imminent threats. Thus, the Syrian general Nicanor attempted to surprise the Maccabees by an attack on Shabbat (2 Maccabees 15:1-5), reasoning that the Jewish defenders would not begin to arm themselves until they actually came under attack on that day. He failed, but only because he lost the element of surprise for long enough to enable the defenders to reach their weapons."
                        A reformulation of the law was clearly required.
                        I go by the Hebrew Bible concerning the Old Testament. So don't talk to me about other books and peoples as proof of anything.

                        And, nothing you said takes away the fact that the Sabbath was a shadow of Jesus.

                        Originally posted by clefty View Post

                        and you wish to claim He did NOT see fit to MAKE IT CLEAR TO ANYBODY that He abolished the Sabbath?
                        Jesus is the Sabbath Rest and the Bible explains it.


                        Originally posted by clefty View Post

                        40 days He spent with them... that is 5 weekends...and NOTHING was declared recorded or even noted of a complete CHANGE to a centuries long tradition...

                        What He saw fit to do was instruct prayers that the Sabbath be not broken in future times of trouble...
                        The Bible doesn't say that, but you keep lying and saying it does.

                        You repeat what your false teachers said and claim it is what the Bible says.

                        Originally posted by clefty View Post

                        not for self preservation or rapture or even the temple spared but that they not have to flee to break the Sabbath by the panic “run to the hills!”
                        Again, pray it is not on the Sabbath does not say anything about so the Sabbath won't be broken, it is because Jesus said to flee to the mountains. Jerusalem's gates are closed on the Sabbath. So you think it is so the Sabbath won't be broken---is it so the winter won't be broken either? lol

                        20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:


                        Originally posted by clefty View Post
                        read the article? Fighting on the Sabbath was STILL an issue at 66 AD...Surely He could have “saw fit” to allow them that....

                        Instead...we have NOTHING...no change of Sabbath keeping

                        "as He saw fit" to what? go CONTRARY His Father's Law and Will and Way...?

                        you are hilarious...LOL
                        No, but you are.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          I don't believe you have the Holy Spirit if you speak against the written word of God and that all must go through Jesus to get saved.
                          Well, I hope you have the Holy Spirit though you avoid talking about IT and how you perceive IT, since you insist that your God has to be the Father in Heaven only.
                          After all, the God, you perceive, is much like the God of Muslims who are also supposed not to believe in the Holy Spirit that unifies the Father in Heaven and Jesus (actually all beings in Heaven) and let them have One Will/Power, God, towards any outsider.

                          By the way, please don't worry about me. Jesus saved me already... in this life on earth.

                          On the other hand, I wish your obedience 'pleases' your God, the Supernatural Ruler, so that you will be rewarded in the afterlife; much like an obedient faithful slave is supposed to be rewarded by his 'pleased' earthly king.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Love vs Obedience. The very title of this thread is a fallacy. Jesus proved it is a fallacy for Jesus is God, and God is love. So in Jesus we see love and obedience at perfect levels. Jesus never sinned, so He obeyed His Father perfectly. Obeyed the law perfectly. Jesus' life proves love and obedience go hand in hand. That they are not contrary to one another. Galatians 5 also proves this.

                            22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
                            23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
                            In other words the fruit of the Spirit is in violation of no law, including God's law, the 10 commandments.
                            “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                            ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                            “One and God make a majority.”
                            ― Frederick Douglass

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by KerimF View Post

                              Well, I hope you have the Holy Spirit though you avoid talking about IT and how you perceive IT, since you insist that your God has to be the Father in Heaven only.
                              What do you mean by I insist God to be the Father in heaven only?

                              Originally posted by KerimF View Post

                              After all, the God, you perceive, is much like the God of Muslims who are also supposed not to believe in the Holy Spirit that unifies the Father in Heaven and Jesus (actually all beings in Heaven) and let them have One Will/Power, God, towards any outsider.
                              What is making you lie about my beliefs? You should be concerned about that.

                              Originally posted by KerimF View Post

                              By the way, please don't worry about me. Jesus saved me already... in this life on earth.
                              You are the one who is saying I am not saved.

                              If you speak against the written words of God and against Jesus being the only way, then you are ensnared by Satan.

                              Originally posted by KerimF View Post
                              On the other hand, I wish your obedience 'pleases' your God, the Supernatural Ruler, so that you will be rewarded in the afterlife; much like an obedient faithful slave is supposed to be rewarded by his 'pleased' earthly king.
                              There is only one God, and He is the God of the Bible that Christians use.

                              You think you can enter by climbing over some other way than by the Jesus of the Bible, but it makes you a thief and a robber.

                              No thief and robber can inherit eternal life.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                                That is what you do.
                                I do NOT claim Paul wrote Sabbath was a shadow...Paul wrote these ceremonial laws ARE/IS a shadow of good THINGS not a PERSON to come...even after DBR and ascension of Yahushua...even STILL to come to day...Sabbath the weekly one was NOT even included in this list...of shadows of the good still to come

                                I do NOT claim Yahushua is a calendar day...He does provide rest however as He is Lord of the Sabbath made for man...a Sabbatismos remains for His people Heb 4:9 of which YOU ARE NOT as you reject it...

                                I do NOT make things up like Jesus disclosed SECRET knowledge to His disciples as He saw fit...

                                especially things like your another gospel another christ “every day is Holy eat whatever because ALL is clean to eat....”

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