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Why was the Sabbath made for man.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ps82 View Post
    Yes, it was The LORD Father who worked on the Sabbath, but the WORD was with him and was God just as the Father LORD was God. They shared the one image the Spirit had formed for his use. And just as Jesus said when you have seen me you have seen the Father so could the Father have said when you have seen me you have seen my pre-incarnate predestine Son, the WORD. They are one ... yet manifested as two in order to accomplish the role the Spirit had in mind for them in saving mankind - each in their own day or time.

    The Sabbath was created for their works ... and mere men were not to steal any glory from him/them on that day by doing works of their own. Even the Jewish religious experts understood that if a mere man worked on the Sabbath it was blasphemy. This is why they wanted to kill our Lord Jesus because they thought of him as a mere man who was trying to teach people that he was equal with the Father.

    Jesus reprimanded them when he basically told them this: You have never seen the Father's shape nor ever heard his voice. Therefore you have not given me the honor I deserve.
    Why would they have known who Jesus was if they had beheld the Father's form? Because Jesus looked like the Father except for the covering of flesh. They also felt they were favored by God because they possessed the scriptural text ... but Jesus told them that it was the text which testified of who he was. They just didn't get it!
    John 5:37-41
    They didn't recognize Jesus as God the Father because they didn't recognize the words Jesus spoke were God's words. They did not really know the scriptures or God.

    John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

    John 8:19 "Where is Your Father?" they asked Him. "You do not know Me or My Father," Jesus answered. "If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well."

    Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered, "You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

    Mark 12:24And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

    Hebrews 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

    John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.


    • #32
      God's Truth said:
      [Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and he did tell the cripple to take his bed and carry it, which was against the law. Jesus teaches that it is right to do good on the Sabbath and wrong to do evil on the Sabbath.

      I believe this is Jesus telling us that there is no more being put to death for doing work on the Sabbath.]

      I have no problem agreeing with this. I will just remind you of this: The LORD and the WORD, our Lord, were with each other during the creation and were the One God as described in John 1. I have no problem agreeing that the LORD Father worked on the Sabbath or that My Lord Jesus worked on the Sabbath. Keep in mind that the Father talked to My Lord as though he was already in existence even before My Lord, being the Word, was manifested in flesh. Off hand I can think of two times "My Lord" was mentioned in the OT.
      1.) King David wrote of him/them: The LORD said unto My Lord,"Sit though at my right hand, until I make your enemies thy footstool... Though art a priest for ever after the ordr of Melchizedej, Psalm 110:1,4
      2.) Moses knew about My Lord and asked this of the Father LORD after He appeared mightily and dangerously to Moses in all His glory: "And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him [Moses] there,and proclaimed the name of the LORD... And he [Moses] said. "If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us." Exodus 34:6,9

      I noticed a slight reference change in the comments of Moses. Was he trying to distinguish between The LORD and My Lord or are they the same God? I say they are the same God ... Yet, Moses knew that there was a presence of the one God which was not all consuming while there was another presence that could kill a mortal. I believe that Moses was speaking of the image of God which was less dangerous. This was God's presence he wanted to go with the people. In my studies I have concluded that the more glorious the appearing of the LORD was the more likely it was referring to the Father. The more safe and angelic sort was a vision of the pre-incarnate one referred to as My Lord. Not that they were not one and the same God's presence but that there were multiple ways God could manifest his glory. Ultimately, the Word, was manifested in yet another lesser level of glory called flesh.

      God had already told Moses that His angel would go before them. I'm sure you have heard teachers say that there is a difference between a personage called a mere angel and The Angel of God. One merely being a created angel who was not God and the other meaning God's created image that represented of the essence of the one Spiritual God. God had already told Moses this: And the LORD spoke to Moses face to face , as a man speaketh unto his friend .. "My presence shall go with thee and I shall give thee rest. And Moses said, If thy presence go not with me, carry us not up from hence. Exodus 33:11,14,15.

      After talking with The LORD face to face as a friend Moses then asked to see the Glory of God and God agreed that ALL HIS GOODNESS would pass before him ... but Moses was only allowed to see the back parts of his body, which appeared as the dangerous Glory of the LORD's presence, as it retreated.

      Keep in mine that I foremost believe that the Father and Son are the ONE God so speaking of them/him as one or as two is no problem for me. Yet, I do believe since the NT days ... they each have their own bodily form and can sit next to each other. How else would My Lord receive the glory he deserves as a hero to mankind? The Father wants the Son to receive all glory for what he has done. Other wise why would the Father establish him as the door way into the kingdom he has prepared for us? He lets us in and then introduces us to the original glorious presence of God who is eternal.

      The Sabbath Day was made for the special MAN ... who was God's own image that represented him among men. Words like he, and us and our were all used to speak of the one LORD because the Spiritual God is a collective noun ... due to the magnitude of his living essence. Yet, this God represented himself with only one image, which he proved he could use repeatedly in many realms of existence. Heaven, dreams and visions, and in flesh.

      Must baby sit today. All the time I will have to reply. Enjoying our conversation God's Truth. Have a great day.


      • #33
        God's truth, I came back to TOL thinking I would have time to write and discuss, but my life is really full. This will be my last post for some time. I've enjoyed our conversation.
        Take care and God bless.


        • #34
          Originally posted by Ps82 View Post
          God's truth, I came back to TOL thinking I would have time to write and discuss, but my life is really full. This will be my last post for some time. I've enjoyed our conversation.
          Take care and God bless.
          You said something at the very beginning that actually supports what I believe, but you don't realize it.

          I was hoping that you would give up the false beliefs you have about God the Father and Jesus having two different bodies when the scriptures say one body.

          Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

          It is easy, just believe what is written.

          There is only one body.

          So are you going to stop saying there are two bodies?

          There is only one Spirit, so are you going to stop saying there are two?


          • #35
            Romans 14:1-13 NLT
            [1] Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don't argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. [2] For instance, one person believes it's all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. [3] Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don't. And those who don't eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. [4] Who are you to condemn someone else's servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord's help, they will stand and receive his approval.

            [5] In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. [6] Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. [7] For we don't live for ourselves or die for ourselves. [8] If we live, it's to honor the Lord. And if we die, it's to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. [9] Christ died and rose again for this very purpose-to be Lord both of the living and of the dead.

            [10] So why do you condemn another believer? Why do you look down on another believer? Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. [11] For the Scriptures say,

            "'As surely as I live,' says the LORD,
            'every knee will bend to me,
            and every tongue will declare allegiance to God. '"

            [12] Yes, each of us will give a personal account to God. [13] So let's stop condemning each other. Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not cause another believer to stumble and fall.


            • #36
              Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

              Yes! I enjoy reading your beliefs on this and glad to hear someone else understand what I have tried so hard to convey to others here and be called liar and crazy.

              As for the last part that you wrote, my beliefs are that there will be only two images, God the Father in Spirit, and God the Father with a body, which is Jesus Christ. I don't believe Jesus will have a body with the signs of a crucifixion, since I believe that when Jesus went back to heaven he was given his glorified immortal body, the body he had before coming to earth, before the crucifixion; and, when he comes back THEN we will see him in this immortal body which should not look exactly like the body he had on earth because the scriptures say we will see him as he is and what we will be. What say you?

              1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

              Since John has seen Jesus when he walked on earth, and after he was raised from the dead, it would seem that he is changed even more so after going back to the Father, and may not have the scars of a person who lived on this earth, and since he got back the the same glory he had before coming to earth, before a crucifixion.
              Hi God's Truth. I think I've already written how I believe there will be two appearing before mankind in eternity. I have three reasons:

              1.) Jesus's prayer in John 17. I believe Jesus prayed this in the ears of his disciples so that they would understand some things that were to come. For sure, the Son and the Father both already understood how things were going to work.

              Verses 4-5 relates to our discussion: I [your begotten Son Emmanuel] have glorified thee [Father God] on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had [or which I had shared] with thee before the world was.

              Do you see my point? God the Spirit and God the Word had shared the glorious image created by God before the world was. This presence they shared was God's image appearing as The Father. We all know Jesus said: The Father and I are ONE [as God]. Jesus was letting his disciples know that God the Father was going to grant him that same glorious presence they had once shared after he arose and was eternally glorified as man's Savior.

              2.) I Timothy 6:1-16 tells us that our Risen Lord will introduce us to the King of Kings who dwell in unapproachable light. We, in our immortal bodies, will see this super-natural King of Kings in the fullness of his glory. Moses, a mortal human being, could not look upon the full glory of the presence of the LORD Father because it would have killed him. Moses was only allowed to see the back parts as the LORD Father retreated. Yet, praise God ... our glorified Lord will introduce us to the LORD of all Lords. We will see Lord Jesus and LORD the Father together in heavenly places.

              3.) I happen to believe that God the Father and the lamb of God, our-Risen-Lord, are both the one Spiritual God Almighty. Yet, Revelation 21, describes a time in the future when things are this way: Verses 22-23 And I saw no [literal] temple therin [within the holy Jerusalem]: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it [the holy city Jerusalem]. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for The Glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

              My conclusions are:
              1.) The Father and the Son are both there. They spiritually make up the temple or place prepared for us where we will dwell with and worship God as our Lord and Savior.
              2.) AND they are both literally there while they light up the kingdom of God/Holy City of Jerusalem by their glory. The Father and the Son are both equally glorious. My conclusion is based upon a prayer Jesus prayed while his disciples listened. It tells us what Jesus expected after his resurrection and ascension. John 17:4-5 I [your WORD and the promised Son] have gorfied thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavst me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had [which I shared] with theee before the world was.

              Do you see it? Jesus was asking to have for himself the same glory he had once shared with the Father before the world was.
              I assume God the Father granted this request because why would God not want his Son to be known and received glory for what he did to glorify the Father while on earth and for what he did to rescue his followers?

              All things were established by the Spiritual God [Gen.1] and they were created by Him [God the LORD Father [Gen. 2} and for Him [God the Son Emmanuel]. The Father and Son represent the works of God the invisible Spirit. To God goes all the glory for what he has done.

              Jesus said: John 5:17 My Father worketh hitherto [in the past], and I work [now].
              For some reason the one God wanted to be known literally as two Lords. They are the ONE God or the ONE God is them.
              Perhaps God the Spirit wanted to be known as three - if you include God the invisible Holy Spirit which Christ left to be in his followers.


              • #37
                God's Truth, BTW, by saying that the Father and Son are spiritually the temple of the New Holy City of Jerusalem I mean this:
                In God we dwell and have our being. The place prepared for us to dwell eternally, the Kingdom of our Lord, will exist in the Spiritual God just like we exist him where we are now. Our Lord, however, went to prepare a new and special place for us.

                Just like God as the LORD Father created a temporary place for mankind in Gen. 1 and 2 ... our Lord has since then created a place for us saints to dwell eternally.
                Our Creator was God but it was God appearing as the LORD of Lords of the Sabbath who personally began manifesting or bringing forth all things which had already been established. It was the LORD who was the man for which the Sabbath was established. What did he look like? A male! How would mankind describe him? He looked like us but really we looked like Him.

                Who is The Father LORD of the Sabbath? He was/is God appearing with a singular presence named LORD/YHWH,Jehovah. As God He may have had a singular form to see but this image was shared by the Father and the WORD. They were both there as God creating things from the beginning.

                John 1:18 tells us that no man had ever seen God, the begotten Son, until the days of John the Baptist when he declared his arrival. People had seen the Father then people saw the Word but they did not recognize him.

                Have you ever wondered why the religious leaders had trouble recognizing the truth of who Jesus was? Jesus told us the answer!

                John 5:37-38 The Father himself which hath sent me, hath born witness of me [check for yourselves the scriptures again]: You [religious teachers] have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen His shape. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he [the Father] hath sent you believe not [what he says.]
                IOW the Father had an audible voice and a visible shape to have been seen but these men had not been given the privilege of having heard from nor seen him. If they had had that privilege the would have immediately known who Jesus was. Why He looked like the Father, he spoke the words of the Father, and he did the miracles of the Father.

                My favorite miracle which Lord Jesus did was forming eye balls for a man who had none since birth. He applied a portion of divine Godly spittle from his mouth and took dust of the ground and formed the eyeballs!!!

                Remind you of what the LORD Father of the Sabbath did in Genesis 2?
                Read verses 6-7 to see how mankind/Adam received his first eyeballs.

                6 But there went up a mist [a divine portion of water coming from God] from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.
                7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground ...

                Do you see the similarities? Moisture from God Lord Jesus was added to the ground and a mist of water was brought forth by God the LORD Father tp water the ground. Only then were the eye balls for man formed of that mixture.

                Jesus, being God, truly did the works of his Father God while here on earth. Even the same works performed on the Sabbath. Jesus and the Father are ONE and were both present in Gen 2 in the form of God's one image named LORD. I suggest that LORD Father could have said: When you have seen me, you have seen my Son. We are one. Just like our Lord Jesus said: When you have seen Me, the Son, you have seen my Father. They are the one God. He is them.