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Death and How to Comfort the Family-Part 2

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  • #31
    Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

    Of course they prove what I say, because I got it from the scriptures.
    That's what Satan said to Jesus. With your logic, I guess Jesus should have bowed down to him.



    How do you think we enter the kingdom if not spiritually?
    Certainly spiritually. But that doesn't mean we have to be spirits to enter.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Derf View Post
      That's what Satan said to Jesus. With your logic, I guess Jesus should have bowed down to him.
      That is not what Satan said to Jesus. You make up things about what the Bible says. Oh, wait, it is what Satan does. Funny how that works. You do and are exactly what you falsely accuse me of being. and doing.
      You don't even believe we have spirits that live on after the death of the body. What are you, a JW? You are a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to devour me.

      I speak of comfort and truth, and you attack and hate me for it.

      Originally posted by Derf View Post

      Certainly spiritually. But that doesn't mean we have to be spirits to enter.
      We have spirits and that is how we enter.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

        That is not what Satan said to Jesus. You make up things about what the Bible says. Oh, wait, it is what Satan does. Funny how that works. You do and are exactly what you falsely accuse me of being. and doing.
        Sure he did--he quoted scripture to Jesus to prove his point:

        [Mat 4:6 KJV] And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

        If, as you say, just quoting scripture makes you the correct one, then Satan must have been correct.

        You don't even believe we have spirits that live on after the death of the body. What are you, a JW? You are a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to devour me.

        I speak of comfort and truth, and you attack and hate me for it.
        No, I don't hate you. I just don't think you are correct. Are you saying that disagreeing with someone is the same as hating them?

        But I appreciate you bringing us back to the OP topic--how is comfort to be delivered. I'm suggesting (not holding it as the only possible interpretation, but suggesting), that Paul gave us words of comfort in the case of someone who dies before the return of Christ. And as easy as it would have been to say, "your dead loved one is already with Jesus", he didn't say that. He said, "We who are alive will not precede those who have fallen asleep...Comfort one another with these words." It's as if the dead ones were NOT with Jesus, but they would get to Jesus before the live ones.


        We have spirits and that is how we enter.
        [Luk 17:20 KJV] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
        [Luk 17:21 KJV] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

        [Mat 6:10 KJV] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

        The kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, but not a kingdom of spirits. It's a kingdom that comes to earth, to men that are on the earth, that are physical, just as Jesus rose physically from the dead.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

          Jesus rose from the dead with his body.



          Jesus said he would send the Comforter and that they would know the Comforter and that they would know the Comforter because the Comforter had been living with them. Jesus is the one who had been living with them; AND, Jesus said he isn’t leaving them as orphans---only a mother or a father can keep a child from being an orphan. Jesus is the Father and the Comforter.

          While Jesus was on earth during his ministry, the Holy Spirit was not given to all believers yet, not until Jesus died and was raised and returned to the Father, not until Pentecost could all believers receive the Holy Spirit.

          John 16:7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

          John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


          Jesus says to his Apostles that they know the Holy Spirit because he lives with them. JESUS WAS THE ONE LIVING WITH THEM. Jesus is the Holy Spirit.


          Jesus said that he would send another comforter, the Holy Spirit. He also said that he would not leave them as orphans that HE WILL COME TO THEM.

          John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

          This is at the time Jesus told them that he would send them another comforter. Jesus explains to them that it is HE.

          Instead of their thinking Jesus is coming to live with them in the flesh again, he says another, because he is not coming to them in the flesh, but in another way...just in the Spirit.
          Shakes head in wonder.....

          Jesus kept his humanity when He rose from the dead. That means He is no longer omnipresent. He sacrificed that part of Him to save us. It's a further demonstration of His love for us. He cannot be with each of us personally at all times. He has to accomplish that through the Comforter, i.e. the Holy Spirit.

          Jesus says He's going to ask the Father to send another Comforter and one that would stay with us forever and live within us. Immediately after that statement He says He will come to us. Now why do we need another Comforter if Jesus is already going to be our Comforter? Your understanding of this passage of scripture is illogical and doesn't follow the scripture.

          Jesus explains this passage more a little further on in his interview with the disciples.
          23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
          24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
          25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
          26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
          27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
          28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
          29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
          The Holy Spirit comes to us in the NAME of Jesus. That's how Jesus can abide with each of us at all times and in all places. He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are one, therefore when the Holy Spirit comes to us He reveals to us exactly the same love, compassion and truth that Jesus revealed, and that the Father reveals to us.
          “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
          ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

          “One and God make a majority.”
          ― Frederick Douglass

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Derf View Post
            Sure he did--he quoted scripture to Jesus to prove his point:
            You said Satan says he proves what he says with scripture. Satan never said that.
            You are like Satan who changes what the scriptures say to your false beliefs.
            Originally posted by Derf View Post
            [Mat 4:6 KJV] And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

            If, as you say, just quoting scripture makes you the correct one, then Satan must have been correct.
            Again, YOU said Satan said something and it is written in the Bible. No such thing does the Bible say Satan said.

            Originally posted by Derf View Post
            No, I don't hate you.
            You do hate me. What do you call comparing me to Satan? You just showed all what you are when you made such a false judgment on me.

            Originally posted by Derf View Post
            I just don't think you are correct. Are you saying that disagreeing with someone is the same as hating them?
            No, you saying the evil things you do about others who don’t agree with you is what shows you are evil.

            You even made a thread about how believers comfort others and you try to destroy that comfort.

            Something is deeply wrong with you, and I am just trying to help you.

            Originally posted by Derf View Post
            [Luk 17:20 KJV] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
            [Luk 17:21 KJV] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

            [Mat 6:10 KJV] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

            The kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, but not a kingdom of spirits. It's a kingdom that comes to earth, to men that are on the earth, that are physical, just as Jesus rose physically from the dead.
            You are using scripture like Satan; out of whack.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post

              Shakes head in wonder.....

              Jesus kept his humanity when He rose from the dead. That means He is no longer omnipresent. He sacrificed that part of Him to save us. It's a further demonstration of His love for us. He cannot be with each of us personally at all times. He has to accomplish that through the Comforter, i.e. the Holy Spirit.

              Jesus says He's going to ask the Father to send another Comforter and one that would stay with us forever and live within us. Immediately after that statement He says He will come to us. Now why do we need another Comforter if Jesus is already going to be our Comforter? Your understanding of this passage of scripture is illogical and doesn't follow the scripture.

              Jesus explains this passage more a little further on in his interview with the disciples.

              The Holy Spirit comes to us in the NAME of Jesus. That's how Jesus can abide with each of us at all times and in all places. He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are one, therefore when the Holy Spirit comes to us He reveals to us exactly the same love, compassion and truth that Jesus revealed, and that the Father reveals to us.
              Talk about a head shake. You just went on and on with some made up story how Jesus didn't really mean it when he says he himself will live in us.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                Talk about a head shake. You just went on and on with some made up story how Jesus didn't really mean it when he says he himself will live in us.
                If you took that out of what I said, you didn't understand what I said, or what Jesus said. Or that Jesus is still fully human and as such cannot be in more than one place at a time. He comes to us through the agency of the Holy Spirit.


                26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
                Why would the Holy Spirit be needed to teach us all things, and to recall to the minds of the disciples everything Jesus had said while here on earth, if Jesus Himself were to be with us in all places and at all times? Why would we need the Holy Spirit if Jesus is personally dwelling within us? You keep ignoring why Jesus would instruct us of our constant need of the Holy Spirit. Explain this from your point of view.
                “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                “One and God make a majority.”
                ― Frederick Douglass

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post

                  If you took that out of what I said, you didn't understand what I said, or what Jesus said. Or that Jesus is still fully human and as such cannot be in more than one place at a time. He comes to us through the agency of the Holy Spirit.




                  Why would the Holy Spirit be needed to teach us all things, and to recall to the minds of the disciples everything Jesus had said while here on earth, if Jesus Himself were to be with us in all places and at all times? Why would we need the Holy Spirit if Jesus is personally dwelling within us? You keep ignoring why Jesus would instruct us of our constant need of the Holy Spirit. Explain this from your point of view.
                  Jesus IS the Holy Spirit.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                    Jesus IS the Holy Spirit.
                    Maybe he will agree with you if you say that louder, and repeat it a bunch of times. And throw in more all-caps.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Derf View Post

                      Maybe he will agree with you if you say that louder, and repeat it a bunch of times. And throw in more all-caps.
                      You have room to talk?

                      Only God can give understanding. Obviously, it isn't given to you for a reason.

                      He wasn't getting it that Jesus is the Holy Spirit and you are going to be bitter because I told him and capitalized 'is'?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        ffreeloader

                        Here are many scriptures that say Jesus is the Spirit.

                        2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

                        2 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

                        Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

                        John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

                        John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

                        1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?

                        John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

                        John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

                        1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

                        All these scriptures tell us Jesus is the Spirit: Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          ffreeloader

                          Here are many scriptures that say Jesus is the Spirit.

                          2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

                          2 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

                          Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

                          John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

                          John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

                          1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?

                          John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

                          John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

                          1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.

                          All these scriptures tell us Jesus is the Spirit: Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17.
                          First off, several of your proof texts have nothing to do with the subject. Others of them are only "proof" to you because of your preconceptions. If we are to take those texts as being literal there is no Holy Spirit, nor are there three members of the Godhead. There are only two in your point of view.

                          Jesus denied your conclusions. He said the Holy Spirit is another Comforter. In other words, He cannot be the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit is another person according to Jesus' own words.
                          I think Jesus, as He is an intimate part of the Godhead, knows much better than you who He is and who the Holy Spirit is.

                          Last of all your position makes the gospel commission given by Jesus complete nonsense.
                          Matthew 28: 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
                          19 ¶Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
                          20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.
                          According to you Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Son.
                          “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                          ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                          “One and God make a majority.”
                          ― Frederick Douglass

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post

                            First off, several of your proof texts have nothing to do with the subject.
                            You saying 'proof texts' sounds like a brain washed statement from false teachers; and so does your denial.

                            Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                            Others of them are only "proof" to you because of your preconceptions. If we are to take those texts as being literal there is no Holy Spirit, nor are there three members of the Godhead. There are only two in your point of view.
                            There is only One.

                            Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                            Jesus denied your conclusions. He said the Holy Spirit is another Comforter. In other words,
                            The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God without limit. Do you really think Jesus was going to tell them he is going to come and live with them? They would think he is coming in the flesh. Jesus SAYS he will not leave them as orphans. Tell me, who but a mother or father can't leave someone as orphans? No mother and no father is a way a person is an orphan. Jesus says he won't leave them as orphans. That can only mean he is the Father.

                            Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                            He cannot be the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit is another person according to Jesus' own words.
                            Can't you read the scriptures? The scriptures say he is the Spirit.

                            Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                            I think Jesus, as He is an intimate part of the Godhead, knows much better than you who He is and who the Holy Spirit is.
                            Jesus says he reveals himself to certain people. So you saying what you just did to me is proof you have no idea what Jesus says and what it means.

                            Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post

                            Last of all your position makes the gospel commission given by Jesus complete nonsense.
                            God the Father came in the flesh. Even the Jews who keep saying only One God could believe what I say.
                            You think what I say is nonsense because you have no understanding. The Bible says there are people such as yourself.
                            Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
                            According to you Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Son.
                            That is your messed up false thinking that shows you can't be reasoned with.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by God's Truth View Post


                              Can't you read the scriptures?
                              Not just "can't you?", but "won't you with an open heart read the scriptures?" If you or any of us decide what to believe based on our own reading of scriptures, but won't allow the scriptures to continue to teach us, the scriptures then take a back seat to our own "wisdom".

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Derf View Post
                                Not just "can't you?", but "won't you with an open heart read the scriptures?" If you or any of us decide what to believe based on our own reading of scriptures, but won't allow the scriptures to continue to teach us, the scriptures then take a back seat to our own "wisdom".
                                You will never know the truth if you don't read the scriptures and do what Jesus says.

                                Comment

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