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  • #31
    Originally posted by User Name View Post

    You accuse me of being "full of Babylonian nonsense and know no Bible truth," but in fact it is you who rejects scriptural truths and the clear words of Jesus himself.
    Paul wrote about you:
    2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

    3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

    4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by WYRose View Post

      Paul wrote about you:
      Paul wrote that he was "caught up into paradise," and whether he was "in the body" or "out of the body," Paul states that he "cannot tell." And you reject what Paul wrote.

      This thread is about "Death and how to comfort the family," but virtually nothing you have posted to this thread could be viewed as "comforting." You must ask yourself why that is.

      Comment


      • #33
        I am assuming the people on this forum are adult and can handle truth and reality?
        As I posted: 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

        4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by WYRose View Post
          As I posted: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine...And they shall turn away their ears from the truth
          And it is you who has turned away from the truth of Luke 23:43 and 2 Corinthians 2:12-14.

          Who are your false teachers that you turned to who deceived you? Name them.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by User Name View Post

            And it is you who has turned away from the truth of Luke 23:43 and 2 Corinthians 2:12-14.

            Who are your false teachers that you turned to who deceived you? Name them.
            You need to grow up and stop annoying people who can understand the written word.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by WYRose View Post

              You need to grow up and stop annoying people who can understand the written word.
              WYRose User Name
              Both of you are bringing up valid points from scripture, but you are not coming to the same conclusions. Can we try to dig into the topic rather than dig into each other?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Derf View Post
                A good friend's wife passed away last year. The phrase I heard most during the funeral as the attendees, including her surviving spouse, was some form of "She's in a better place now." She was a believer, so I don't think the phrase was forced, but I've been wondering how valid that phrase is.

                Here's my primary scripture reference: [1Th 4:18 KJV] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

                Of course we need some context, so here it is:
                Paul was answering some question from the Thessalonians who were concerned about the state of those who had already fallen asleep (died)--they were concerned that their loved ones had missed the promised kingdom, it seems.

                [1Th 4:13 KJV] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
                [1Th 4:14 KJV] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
                [1Th 4:15 KJV] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


                The fore-going is certainly a comfort, that those which are asleep will also partake in the Lord's coming, God bringing them with Jesus. This sounds like those "which are asleep" could be with Jesus already. But the remaining verses seem to say something else:

                [1Th 4:16 KJV] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
                [1Th 4:17 KJV] Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


                The apparent order of events is
                1. Jesus descends from heaven with a shout and a trumpet
                2. The dead in Christ rise
                3. The alive are caught up together with them in the clouds ("them" meaning those that were dead)
                4. We meet the Lord Jesus in the air
                5. We are never separated from Jesus forever

                [1Th 4:18 KJV] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
                Paul tells us to use these words to comfort each other regarding those that have died.

                How many of the people at the funeral were comforting the family with these words? I think I was the only one. The pastor talked about a dream he had where he was dead, but was able to see and be among his family, though they couldn't see him. Several talked about the deceased dancing with Jesus.

                So my question is, should we be comforting those that have lost loved ones by saying "they are in heaven now" or "they are in a better place" or "their spirits are with Jesus". Paul never said to comfort anyone with those words, though they seem like they would be very comforting, if true.

                And if we should not use those words for comfort, is that because those words are not true??
                The scripture says Jesus will bring them with him when he comes to raise the dead. Jesus brings the spirits of those who were with him in heaven.
                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Derf View Post
                  WYRose User Name
                  Both of you are bringing up valid points from scripture, but you are not coming to the same conclusions. Can we try to dig into the topic rather than dig into each other?
                  "WYRose" is not bringing up valid points from scripture, sorry. She rejects scripture. I've given specific examples.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    1 Thessalonians 4
                    13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
                    Oh how I love the Word of God!

                    Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Bradley D View Post
                      My wife passed away in January 2019. I have been in sorrow for her ever since. The scripture that came to me is in the Psalm of Moses. "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away" (Ps. 90:10).

                      I also read years ago a reading called the:

                      "Storm of Sorrow"

                      "Into every life some day the tempest of sorrow must come, for sorrow is ever the penalty of love. And if a person loves they will sorrow."

                      So I asked myself if love worth the sorrow. My heart told me yes.
                      So sorry to hear about your wife. It is a dread for all humans.
                      Oh how I love the Word of God!

                      Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Derf View Post

                        I meant the part where we are present with the Lord. If we are immediately present with the Lord, then why did Paul write that they should look to a future event for solace? Their solace should have been in the past event of already joining Christ.
                        Paul dealt with some people who were teaching there was no resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:12-19


                        12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
                        Oh how I love the Word of God!

                        Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by WYRose View Post

                          I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but nowhere in the Bible does it say anyone goes to heaven.
                          Jesus explicitly declared otherwise.
                          All the dead are in their graves until either Jesus's return or else Judgment Day.
                          You are wrong.

                          Matthew 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
                          Oh how I love the Word of God!

                          Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Derf View Post
                            WYRose User Name
                            Both of you are bringing up valid points from scripture, but you are not coming to the same conclusions. Can we try to dig into the topic rather than dig into each other?
                            Ok what do you want to know?
                            What you are seeing is my showing truth - while other one has a head filled with Babylonian nonsense.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Lon View Post

                              Sure. Those who loose loved ones hear this about 20 to 50 times at a funeral. I don't believe the intention is to be glib during a time of great loss, but when such is given that many times, it starts to lose its comfort and for the loved ones, seems words that do not help 'them' in their loss and pain.

                              On your other point, we had a youth in our church who was from a strong Catholic family. She died in a car wreck and her parents wanted a Catholic funeral. It was okay, but the Priest told her parents exactly what you are saying: That 'our sister lies in the grave until the resurrection.' It was awful and no comfort but for a future hope.
                              Catholic denomination doesn't teach that.
                              Oh how I love the Word of God!

                              Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by WYRose View Post
                                Here it is as explicit as can be: John 3:13 King James Version (KJV)

                                13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
                                That scripture is about no one but Jesus can go to heaven with their body.
                                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                                Comment

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