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  • The Afterlife of Life after Death...

    What happens after you breath your last do you instantly get transfered to heaven or is it as the bible says that it is as if you are asleep.

    One of the most deceptive doctrines of eastern pagan religions is the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. This doctrine more than any other opens the door to spurious views regarding the afterlife, and it has permeated the religious world with its false promises and claims. Moreover, it offers promises of multiple choices that can be made in terms of one’s salvation and multiple chances in terms of qualifying for salvation. Spiritism, reincarnation and necromancy (the worship and consulting of the dead) are only possible in the light of this doctrine.

    The Word of God is very clear on this issue. None of these doctrines and practices were to be tolerated by the people of God because they were all rooted in a false perception of death.

    According to the creation account, man received the gift of life from God:
    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7
    God thus formed man of the dust of the ground, and then He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. This union then became a living soul.

    The Hebrew word for "breath" in Genesis 2:7 is "neshamah" or the life-giving principle. The breath is equivalent to life itself (Isaiah 2:22). Another Hebrew word which is translated 28 times as "breath" in the KJV is "rûach" which can also mean "wind", "disposition" or "Spirit". It is translated 237 times as "Spirit" in the KJV. In Genesis 2:7, it is the breath of life from God that makes the inanimate material come to life, and transforms it into a living soul. The Hebrew for soul is "nephesh", and both the terms "rûach" and "nephesh" have frequently been misapplied to suit doctrinal positions not inherent in the Scriptures. Both the concepts of soul and spirit are used to describe spirit entities, which can exist independently of the body. Indeed, most religions in the world today teach that death is the transition of one state of consciousness to another state of consciousness. They propose that physical man is subject to death, but that the "soul" continues to live, and is indeed immortal. According to this doctrine, the soul is a separate entity, and resides in the body of the living. To make matters even more confusing, most Christian denominations believe that this dichotomy is to be found only in humans, and that animals do not have souls.

    The text of Genesis 2:7 clearly states that God breathed into the formed man the "breath of life" and man became a living soul. He did not receive a living soul; he became one. The New King James Bible states that "man became a living being". Of the 1700 references to soul and spirit in the Bible, never once is either the soul or the Spirit declared to be immortal, imperishable or eternal. Indeed only God has immortality (1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16).

    The doctrine of the immortality of the soul is a doctrine of false hope which negates the message of death. Moreover, if man continues to live, albeit in an altered state, then there is no need for a Saviour, or indeed the atoning death of Christ. Christ died to restore life to those who had forfeited it through sin.Job correlates the usage of breath and the spirit, saying:
    All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils. Job 27:3

    Moses reported that the breath of life was in Adam’s nostrils, whereas Job refers to both terms and says that the spirit of the Lord is “in my nostrils.” Hence, the Hebrew terms of "neshamah" and "rûach" are used here in a similar context - namely life itself! According to the Scriptures, all living creatures received life in the same way from God, and are subject to the same fate.
    And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field . . . wherein is the breath of life. Genesis 2:19; 7:15

    Both man and beast
    ...have all one breath, so that a man hath no preeminence above the beast. Ecclesiastes 3:19

    Since man and beast have one breath, they also die the same way.
    For that which befalleth the sons of men, befalleth beasts; ... as the one dieth, so dieth the other. Ecclesiastes 3:19.

    Both man and animals were created from dust. So, when they die they then return again to dust; just the reverse of creation.
    ...for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:19

    The second thing which happens when a man dies, is that the spirit, or breath of life, returns to God;
    ...and the spirit shall return unto God, who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

    Man was never meant to die, but death came into the world as a consequence of sin.
    For the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23
    As death is non-life, it merely means that God takes the life ("rûach" spirit, breath) that He granted on condition of obedience back and man ceases to live. It is the life that was given that returns to God, and not a transformed version of man in the form a spirit being. When God said that man would "surely die" (Genesis 2:17) if he transgressed God's requirements, He meant that man would cease to live, and would return to dust.

    Far from being a conscious state, death is thus the ultimate state of non-being or unconsciousness, and is described as such in the Scriptures:

    His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4
    For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

    The dead are oblivious to what is happening on earth they know nothing. The next verse states:
    Also their love, and their hatred and their envy is now perished. Ecclesiastes 9:6
    For in death there is no remembrance of You; in the grave who will give you thanks? Psalm 6:5 NKJV

    So their feelings perish also.
    The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115:17

    This state of unconsciousness is equated with sleep. Job says,
    So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more; they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:12 .

    Man lies in the sleep of death until the resurrection at the end of time. Then, and only then, will he awake and be raised out of sleep. David called it the “sleep of death” (Psalms 13:3).
    Last edited by Hobie; November 24th, 2019, 06:13 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hobie View Post
    What happens after you breath your last do you instantly get transfered to heaven or is it as the bible says that it is as if you are asleep.

    One of the most deceptive doctrines of eastern pagan religions is the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. This doctrine more than any other opens the door to spurious views regarding the afterlife, and it has permeated the religious world with its false promises and claims. Moreover, it offers promises of multiple choices that can be made in terms of one’s salvation and multiple chances in terms of qualifying for salvation. Spiritism, reincarnation and necromancy (the worship and consulting of the dead) are only possible in the light of this doctrine.
    Heb_9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

    The doctrine of the immortality of the soul is a doctrine of false hope which negates the message of death.
    There is
    1 spiritual death Mat_8:22
    2 physical death Mat 8:22
    3 there is alive yet dead Rev 20:12
    4 death as a place Rev 20:13
    5 death as a person Rev 6:8

    here we have physical death, spiritual death & death as a place.

    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
    Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

    Abraham, Lazarus and The rich man all dead Physically.


    Abraham still living tho
    Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

    Mat 22:32 "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hobie View Post
      Man lies in the sleep of death until the resurrection at the end of time. Then, and only then, will he awake and be raised out of sleep. David called it the “sleep of death” (Psalms 13:3).
      Psalm 13:3 refers to the physical body, the physical corpse in the literal grave, not to the soul/spirit.

      Comment


      • #4
        Where did God take Enoch?

        "By faith Enoch was taken up so that he did not see death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5).

        Where did God take Elijah?

        "As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind" (2 Kings 2:11).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hobie View Post
          What happens after you breath your last do you instantly get transfered to heaven or is it as the bible says that it is as if you are asleep.
          The body is as if sleeping.

          Originally posted by Hobie View Post
          One of the most deceptive doctrines of eastern pagan religions is the doctrine of the immortality of the soul.
          A 'soul' is a physical body alive with it's spirit.

          No one but Jesus has a soul that lives on forever.

          However, we will receive a soul like that at the resurrection.

          What all do have is our own spirit that never dies.

          Originally posted by Hobie View Post

          This doctrine more than any other opens the door to spurious views regarding the afterlife, and it has permeated the religious world with its false promises and claims. Moreover, it offers promises of multiple choices that can be made in terms of one’s salvation and multiple chances in terms of qualifying for salvation. Spiritism, reincarnation and necromancy (the worship and consulting of the dead) are only possible in the light of this doctrine.

          The Word of God is very clear on this issue. None of these doctrines and practices were to be tolerated by the people of God because they were all rooted in a false perception of death.
          The Bible does not say that which you embellish.

          Originally posted by Hobie View Post
          According to the creation account, man received the gift of life from God:
          And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7
          God thus formed man of the dust of the ground, and then He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. This union then became a living soul.

          The Hebrew word for "breath" in Genesis 2:7 is "neshamah" or the life-giving principle. The breath is equivalent to life itself (Isaiah 2:22). Another Hebrew word which is translated 28 times as "breath" in the KJV is "rûach" which can also mean "wind", "disposition" or "Spirit". It is translated 237 times as "Spirit" in the KJV. In Genesis 2:7, it is the breath of life from God that makes the inanimate material come to life, and transforms it into a living soul. The Hebrew for soul is "nephesh", and both the terms "rûach" and "nephesh" have frequently been misapplied to suit doctrinal positions not inherent in the Scriptures. Both the concepts of soul and spirit are used to describe spirit entities, which can exist independently of the body. Indeed, most religions in the world today teach that death is the transition of one state of consciousness to another state of consciousness. They propose that physical man is subject to death, but that the "soul" continues to live, and is indeed immortal. According to this doctrine, the soul is a separate entity, and resides in the body of the living. To make matters even more confusing, most Christian denominations believe that this dichotomy is to be found only in humans, and that animals do not have souls.
          You are right, denominations teach wrong about the spirit and soul.

          Our body is dead without the spirit. Our body is a living soul with the spirit.

          After the death of our body, our spirit lives on.

          Originally posted by Hobie View Post

          The text of Genesis 2:7 clearly states that God breathed into the formed man the "breath of life" and man became a living soul. He did not receive a living soul; he became one. The New King James Bible states that "man became a living being". Of the 1700 references to soul and spirit in the Bible, never once is either the soul or the Spirit declared to be immortal, imperishable or eternal. Indeed only God has immortality (1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16).

          The doctrine of the immortality of the soul is a doctrine of false hope which negates the message of death. Moreover, if man continues to live, albeit in an altered state, then there is no need for a Saviour, or indeed the atoning death of Christ. Christ died to restore life to those who had forfeited it through sin.Job correlates the usage of breath and the spirit, saying:
          All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils. Job 27:3

          Moses reported that the breath of life was in Adam’s nostrils, whereas Job refers to both terms and says that the spirit of the Lord is “in my nostrils.” Hence, the Hebrew terms of "neshamah" and "rûach" are used here in a similar context - namely life itself! According to the Scriptures, all living creatures received life in the same way from God, and are subject to the same fate.
          And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field . . . wherein is the breath of life. Genesis 2:19; 7:15

          Both man and beast
          ...have all one breath, so that a man hath no preeminence above the beast. Ecclesiastes 3:19

          Since man and beast have one breath, they also die the same way.
          For that which befalleth the sons of men, befalleth beasts; ... as the one dieth, so dieth the other. Ecclesiastes 3:19.

          Both man and animals were created from dust. So, when they die they then return again to dust; just the reverse of creation.
          ...for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:19

          The second thing which happens when a man dies, is that the spirit, or breath of life, returns to God;
          ...and the spirit shall return unto God, who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

          Man was never meant to die, but death came into the world as a consequence of sin.
          For the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23
          As death is non-life, it merely means that God takes the life ("rûach" spirit, breath) that He granted on condition of obedience back and man ceases to live. It is the life that was given that returns to God, and not a transformed version of man in the form a spirit being. When God said that man would "surely die" (Genesis 2:17) if he transgressed God's requirements, He meant that man would cease to live, and would return to dust.

          Far from being a conscious state, death is thus the ultimate state of non-being or unconsciousness, and is described as such in the Scriptures:

          His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4
          For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

          The dead are oblivious to what is happening on earth they know nothing. The next verse states:
          Also their love, and their hatred and their envy is now perished. Ecclesiastes 9:6
          For in death there is no remembrance of You; in the grave who will give you thanks? Psalm 6:5 NKJV

          So their feelings perish also.
          The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115:17

          This state of unconsciousness is equated with sleep. Job says,
          So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more; they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:12 .

          Man lies in the sleep of death until the resurrection at the end of time. Then, and only then, will he awake and be raised out of sleep. David called it the “sleep of death” (Psalms 13:3).
          God's BREATH give us our spirit.
          Our breath does not.

          The Jews that reject the truth about the life of the spirit and things that are spiritual missed their Messiah.
          The Jews that reject the truth about the life of our spirits after the death of our bodies don't understand what is truly important about life and so they miss the revelation and salvation that Jesus gives.

          We can look to the Old Testament for spiritual information, but the New Testament is prophecies fulfilled and revelation of the Spirit and our spirit.

          There are many scriptures in the New Testament that show us our spirits live on in consciousness after the death of our bodies.
          The Old Testament was about earthly man. The New Testament is about spiritual man.
          Romans 7:4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

          The Old Testament was to the realm of the flesh. The New Testament is the realm of the Spirit.


          Oh how I love the Word of God!

          Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bradley D View Post
            Where did God take Enoch?

            "By faith Enoch was taken up so that he did not see death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5).

            Where did God take Elijah?

            "As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind" (2 Kings 2:11).
            Put the verses together and you get the answer...

            Hebrews 11:5 King James Version (KJV)
            5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

            Comment


            • #7
              While speaking to His disciples about Lazarus, Jesus said:

              Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, if he sleep he shall do well. Howbeit, Jesus spoke of his death; but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. John 11:11-14

              The disciples were confused and thought Christ meant natural sleep, but He meant the sleep of death.
              On His arrival Jesus found that Lazarus had already been four days in the tomb. John 11:17

              While conversing with Martha, He tried to comfort her by saying,
              'Thy brother shall rise again.' Martha saith unto him, 'I know that He shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.' John 11:23,24

              Martha knew that life would be restored to Lazarus only in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus demonstrated through the resurrection of Lazarus that He was the One who could resurrect the dead according to His claim:

              I am the resurrection and the life. John 11:25

              The Scriptures in both Old and New Testaments are very clear on this issue. Life to the dead will be restored in the resurrection on the last day. There will be separate resurrections for the righteous and for the wicked.

              John 5:28-29 states:
              Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation.

              But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:5

              That same voice that raised Lazarus from the grave will be heard on that last day of this world's history, calling forth those who have slept in the graves of the earth. Christ will recreate the righteous dead, or "dead in Christ", and breathe into them the breath of eternal life, and they shall enter Heaven.

              Revelation 20:6:
              Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.

              When Jesus called Lazarus from the tomb,
              ...he cried with a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth'. John 11:43

              That voice raised dead Lazarus to life. "He that was dead came forth", and Jesus said:
              Loose him, and let him go. John 11:44

              Nothing at all is stated about what transpired during those four days in which Lazarus was dead. Christ made no statement, neither did Martha or even Lazarus himself. The fact, of course, is that there was nothing to report about what happened after he died, no bright lights or gentle clouds or about the realm of the dead, simply because he had experienced the sleep of death which is a state of absolute silence and oblivion.

              Daniel 12:2
              And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

              The verse describes the dead as those who "sleep in the dust of the earth,” who later “shall awake” through being resurrected.

              Job speaks of the state of the dead on more than one occasion.

              Job 3:11-17
              11Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
              12 Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
              13 For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
              14 With kings and counsellors of the earth, which build desolate places for themselves;
              15 Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
              16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
              17 There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.

              Notice what it says, “Why did I not die at birth? Why did I not perish when I came from the womb?…For now I would have lain still and been quiet, I would have been asleep; then I would have been at rest…There the wicked cease from troubling, and there the weary are at rest”

              In another reference that describes the state of the dead, Paul refers to the righteous dead who will be resurrected to meet Christ in the air as being “asleep”:

              1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
              15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
              16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
              17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

              So those sleeping saints who are in their graves will be resurrected, rising to meet the Lord at the Second Coming, along with His saints who are then still alive. They all will be caught up in the air to meet Christ in the resurrection and taken to heaven.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hobie View Post
                Nothing at all is stated about what transpired during those four days in which Lazarus was dead. Christ made no statement, neither did Martha or even Lazarus himself. The fact, of course, is that there was nothing to report about what happened after he died, no bright lights or gentle clouds or about the realm of the dead, simply because he had experienced the sleep of death which is a state of absolute silence and oblivion.
                Revelation 6
                9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
                10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
                11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by User Name View Post

                  Revelation 6
                  9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
                  10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
                  11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
                  Read and understand if its literal or symbolic...

                  Genesis 4:10
                  And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

                  Abel's blood, not Abel himself, cried out to the Lord. Clearly this did not happen in a literal sense. Abel's shed blood cried out from the ground to the Lord symbolically, for justice to be done, for his blood to be avenged, just like in Rev 6:10.

                  The book of Leviticus give us some interesting information about blood:
                  Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
                  It is the Hebrew word nephesh that gives us the key:
                  Leviticus 17:11 For the life [H5315 nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: [H5315 nephesh] for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [H5315 nephesh].
                  The word nephesh occurs three times in that verse, and it is translated life, souls, and soul. So it would be just as proper to translate the verse as follows:
                  Leviticus 17:11 For the soul of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
                  Nephesh, according to Strong's dictionary, also has the meaning of breath, so this is also valid:
                  Leviticus 17:11 For the breath of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
                  Now as most people will probably recognize, that is a medically correct statement. The blood carries the oxygen from the lungs throughout the body. The body's breath is literally carried in the blood! So this verse draws a parallel between breath, soul, and blood. They are, in effect, synonymous in this case. Note this Messianic prophecy in Isaiah:
                  Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul [H5315 nephesh] unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
                  Since the life is in the blood (Lev 17:11), it was Jesus' blood that was poured out unto death at the cross.

                  The word translated "souls" in Revelation 6:9 in the Greek is psuche, G5590 in Strong's dictionary, which also has the meaning of life or breath. Since we have concluded that the blood carries the life and breath in Leviticus 17:11, and life, breath, soul, and blood are synonymous in this case, the following is also a proper translation:
                  Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the blood of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
                  Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
                  Now verses 9 and 10 are coherent. It is the shed blood of the martyrs that is seen "under the altar", not immortal bodiless souls. Just as Abel's blood cries out symbolically for justice to the Lord, so does the blood of the martyrs.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lets look as to answer the question of the state of the dead, we must first define what the Bible says a soul is:

                    Look at how man was created..
                    Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
                    Man was not given a soul – he became a living soul. Don't miss that. “Soul” and “spirit” are not the same thing. It is the unity of body and breath-of-life that constitute the soul. You ARE a soul; you do not HAVE a soul. It is sad that an educated clergy gets this part wrong in most churches, and in doing so, the rest of what happens after we die gets distorted based off this first failing step.

                    For those that are mathematically minded, the idea can be expressed as such:
                    Physical body (dust) + breath of life (spirit - ruwach) = living soul (a wholism of the two - nephesh)

                    The Hebrew word for soul is"nephesh". Nephesh was translated into many different English words for the KJV Bible (for instance; creature, beast, man, fish, thing, person or persons, etc) but an important thing one should plainly see is that none of the translations refer to it as being something that survives the death of the body nor does it mean that in the original Hebrew. It was used to describe the "wholism" of life - not a "dualism" as was latter taught by the Greeks (Plato to be precise) and is unfortunately with us still today.
                    The Hebrew word for spirit is "ruwach". This word means breath or air and these terms are used interchangeably. The Hebrew word “ruwach” appears 377 times in the Bible; 117 times translated as wind/air, 33 times as breath, and 227 times as spirit. There is no indication that there is any memory, consciousness, ego, or character associated with it in ANY of the verses. Also, there is no implication that it is immortal. Check it out for yourself if you have any doubts.

                    Now can/does the soul die?
                    Ezekial 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
                    Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
                    Revelation 16:3 - And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
                    Genesis 3:19 - In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
                    Ecclesiastes 3:19 & 20 - For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

                    These five verses show the same equation (if you will), in reverse:

                    Physical body (dust) – breath of life (spirit) = death (the ceasing of the two)

                    Let’s verify that the “breath of life” equates to the spirit:
                    Genesis 7:22 - All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
                    Job 27:3 - All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
                    Isaiah 2:22 - Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
                    What is in the nostrils? Some immortal memory-retaining substance? No, figuratively and literally it is the breath.

                    As you can see, the breath of life and the spirit are one and the same and are used interchangeably. Does the spirit have thoughts or memory?
                    Ecclesiastes 9:5 - For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
                    Job 12:2 - No doubt but ye are the people, and wisdom shall die with you.

                    So, the spirit (breath - ruwach) that returns to God at death is not mentioned as being immortal nor does it contain any memory or information of the individual or any conscience whatsoever. In fact, just the opposite has been seen; the dead don’t know anything nor can they gain any further reward towards heaven.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hobie View Post
                      What happens after you breath your last do you instantly get transfered to heaven or is it as the bible says that it is as if you are asleep.
                      2 Cor 12:2
                      I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven.

                      2 Cor 5:6, 8
                      Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord. We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

                      Phil 1:23
                      I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hobie View Post
                        Man lies in the sleep of death until the resurrection at the end of time. Then, and only then, will he awake and be raised out of sleep.
                        Matthew 27:51-53
                        And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hobie View Post

                          Put the verses together and you get the answer...

                          Hebrews 11:5 King James Version (KJV)
                          5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
                          So Enoch and Elijah are in heaven.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bradley D View Post

                            So Enoch and Elijah are in heaven.
                            As I believe is Moses, for God took Moses's body.

                            Jud_1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

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                            • #15
                              Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

                              Elias was taken by God in a whirlwind, and God sent Michael to take the body of Moses.

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