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  • Originally posted by OneGodInChrist View Post
    "I and my Father are one." John 10:30
    'One' what?



    "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Phillip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" John 14:9
    God in the flesh is known as the Son....i.e. Malek Yahweh in the OT....i.e. also known as the messenger of God.

    Even Jesus never said that He was the Father - but always made clear distinction between His deity and that of the Father.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
      Tell us what you think the Trinity even is, brother...
      Well, first I want to say that I have the upmost respect for those who may hold a different view than myself because I was raised in a Trinitarian church and am still really close to the saints and pastor of that church, as well as others.

      However I believe that Paul was speaking prophetically in Col. 2:8-9 that there would come a day when it would be taught that the fulness of the Godhead did not dwell in Christ.

      If you study Church history from around 250AD to the present, it appears that the Trinity is a very Orthodox view.

      However, if you study Church history prior to the third century, the picture looks much different. History teaches that prior to the day of a man by the name of Tertullian, the doctrine of the Trinity didn't exist.

      Although there were discussions and disputes about the Godhead even back then, the Trinitarian concept wasn't widespread until Tertullian, even though his concept of the Trinity was much different than that was developed and confirmed at the Counsel of Nicea in 320 AD.

      Prior to 100AD even secular church history confirms that all believers were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, with those exact words pronounced over them.

      When the book of Mathew was written in approx. 63AD, ALL believers were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and still were for atleast another 50+ years, until the apostles died off and their successors and other teachings began to come in. To that date, hundreds of thousands of people continued to be baptized in Jesus' name and no other way.

      To them Math. 28:19 was not a contradiction to how they baptized in the book of Acts, and for the next 100 years, but a confirmation. To them, when Jesus told them to baptize in the NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, I believe they knew what that name was, so they baptized in the name of Jesus, confirming also Paul's statement in Col. 2:9

      Those who sat on the Counsel of Nicea were NOT men who were even qualified to make any decisions on who God was. They were very paganistic, political "Christians" who believed a very compromised version of Christianity to what you and I believe today, which would later become known to us as Roman Catholicism.

      In short, I believe that the doctrine of the Trinity is the one Catholic doctrine that most of Reformed Christianity hasn't YET let go of.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
        You just admitted to Jesus existing BEFORE creation, pops!
        now your starting to read my posts. Where has your head been for the last six months.
        Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

        Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

        Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
          He raised Himself...John 2:19 - 21
          Then he wasn't really dead.
          Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

          Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

          Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
            Then he wasn't really dead.
            Yes He was my friend.

            John 10:17-18

            New King James Version (NKJV)

            17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
            18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
            He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

            Jim Elliot

            Comment


            • Originally posted by OneGodInChrist View Post
              Well, first I want to say that I have the upmost respect for those who may hold a different view than myself because I was raised in a Trinitarian church and am still really close to the saints and pastor of that church, as well as others.

              That's nice...however, you still have yet to tell us what you think the Trinity even is...perhaps you never learned it...you just deny it for no good reason...yes?




              However I believe that Paul was speaking prophetically in Col. 2:8-9 that there would come a day when it would be taught that the fulness of the Godhead did not dwell in Christ.

              If you study Church history from around 250AD to the present, it appears that the Trinity is a very Orthodox view.

              However, if you study Church history prior to the third century, the picture looks much different. History teaches that prior to the day of a man by the name of Tertullian, the doctrine of the Trinity didn't exist.

              Although there were discussions and disputes about the Godhead even back then, the Trinitarian concept wasn't widespread until Tertullian, even though his concept of the Trinity was much different than that was developed and confirmed at the Counsel of Nicea in 320 AD.

              Moses was Trinitarian.

              This trumps your church fathers.....yes?





              Prior to 100AD even secular church history confirms that all believers were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, with those exact words pronounced over them.

              When the book of Mathew was written in approx. 63AD, ALL believers were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and still were for atleast another 50+ years, until the apostles died off and their successors and other teachings began to come in. To that date, hundreds of thousands of people continued to be baptized in Jesus' name and no other way.

              To them Math. 28:19 was not a contradiction to how they baptized in the book of Acts, and for the next 100 years, but a confirmation. To them, when Jesus told them to baptize in the NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, I believe they knew what that name was, so they baptized in the name of Jesus, confirming also Paul's statement in Col. 2:9
              Scripture tells us that there is no difference in baptising in the singular name of the Trinity or the singular name of Jesus.




              Those who sat on the Counsel of Nicea were NOT men who were even qualified to make any decisions on who God was. They were very paganistic, political "Christians" who believed a very compromised version of Christianity to what you and I believe today, which would later become known to us as Roman Catholicism.

              In short, I believe that the doctrine of the Trinity is the one Catholic doctrine that most of Reformed Christianity hasn't YET let go of.

              The OT prophets were Trinitarian...and they came long before the Catholic church...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
                now your starting to read my posts. Where has your head been for the last six months.
                The dymanic duo, God and Jesus, right, pops?

                The god you worship had to have the help of his creation in order to create.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
                  Then he wasn't really dead.
                  According to your reasoning, then God the Father never did anything of importance in raising Jesus, either.

                  Think, pops, think....

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
                    That's nice...however, you still have yet to tell us what you think the Trinity even is...perhaps you never learned it...you just deny it for no good reason...yes?







                    Moses was Trinitarian.

                    This trumps your church fathers.....yes?







                    Scripture tells us that there is no difference in baptising in the singular name of the Trinity or the singular name of Jesus.







                    The OT prophets were Trinitarian...and they came long before the Catholic church...
                    I apologize for misreading your question about the Trinity. I answered as I thought you were asking. I have a complete understanding of the Trinitarian viewpoint. I was taught it in Bible College, by Trinitarians, as well as personal study, so yes I completely understand it. I have to admit though, you are the first one to tell me that the Old Testament writers were Trinitarians. Most tell me that they believe that Moses, the prophets, etc. didn't understand the concept of the Trinity and that it wasn't revealed or understood until the New Testament.

                    I think any Orthodox Jewish histltorian, or Rabbi would disagree with you that Moses or any of the prophets believed that God was a Trinity, as would many Trinitarians.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by OneGodInChrist View Post
                      I apologize for misreading your question about the Trinity. I answered as I thought you were asking. I have a complete understanding of the Trinitarian viewpoint. I was taught it in Bible College, by Trinitarians, as well as personal study, so yes I completely understand it.
                      No, you do not, brother.

                      You are stalling...

                      If you knew what the Trinity is, then you could have easily stated what you think it is, already.

                      As it is, you are no different than any of the other Trinity deniers....as none of them can even tell us what they think it even is....all they know how to do is say that it is somehow 'wrong'...no definition, nothing...no defining premise...nothing...just plain 'wrong'...

                      Almost comical it is...






                      I have to admit though, you are the first one to tell me that the Old Testament writers were Trinitarians. Most tell me that they believe that Moses, the prophets, etc. didn't understand the concept of the Trinity and that it wasn't revealed or understood until the New Testament.
                      There is nothing in the NT that was not first taught in the OT.

                      A Triune creator is revealed to us in the first three verses of the Holy Bible...and carries through until Revelation.






                      I think any Orthodox Jewish histltorian, or Rabbi would disagree with you that Moses or any of the prophets believed that God was a Trinity, as would many Trinitarians.
                      Let's see....would this be the Jews who all the way through their very own Tanakh have divinely inspired scriptures quoting Yahweh, in the first-person singular, constantly chastizing His people for following idols and incorrectly worhipping Him for thousands upon thousands of years?

                      But now...these same Jews magically have the right recipe for worship?

                      Lol...not a chance...divinely inspired scirptures state otherwise...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
                        No, you do not, brother.

                        You are stalling...

                        If you knew what the Trinity is, then you could have easily stated what you think it is, already.

                        As it is, you are no different than any of the other Trinity deniers....as none of them can even tell us what they think it even is....all they know how to do is say that it is somehow 'wrong'...no definition, nothing...no defining premise...nothing...just plain 'wrong'..
                        Would you like the "official" definition such as the Nicean or Athanasian Creed, the Christian apologetics one, or just my own personal definition.

                        The Trinity teaches that God is one in essence, but three in persons. They are co-equal and co-eternal. That's my own shortened version of course, but I'm also well aware of the rest, such as the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, yet there are not three Gods, etc...

                        Now my question for you is, do you understand the Oneness? It's only fair haha
                        God bless bro

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
                          Scripture tells us that there is no difference in baptising in the singular name of the Trinity or the singular name of Jesus.
                          Baptism is a whole other discussion. However, how the apostles and early Church baptized testifies greatly to their view of the Godhead.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by OneGodInChrist View Post
                            Would you like the "official" definition such as the Nicean or Athanasian Creed, the Christian apologetics one, or just my own personal definition.
                            What you think it is...after all, you are the one denying it to be true...



                            The Trinity teaches that God is one in essence, but three in persons. They are co-equal and co-eternal. That's my own shortened version of course, but I'm also well aware of the rest, such as the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, yet there are not three Gods, etc...
                            If you believe this...then show us your vey best silver-bullet Trinity-killer verse which supposedly thwarts the Trinity and detail why you think it does....good luck on that one...




                            Now my question for you is, do you understand the Oneness? It's only fair haha
                            God bless bro
                            The goal of oneness is to deny the Triune creator.

                            In order to do so, they must cherry-pick their scriptures very carefully to the exclusion of others.

                            Trinitarians use the whole of scripture.

                            See the difference, brother?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by OneGodInChrist View Post
                              Baptism is a whole other discussion. However, how the apostles and early Church baptized testifies greatly to their view of the Godhead.
                              No.

                              Scripture informs us that baptising in the singular name of Jesus is the same as baptising in the singular name of the Trinity.

                              Still waiting for a verse which you think thwarts the Trinity...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by OneGodInChrist View Post
                                Those who sat on the Counsel of Nicea were NOT men who were even qualified to make any decisions on who God was. They were very paganistic, political "Christians" who believed a very compromised version of Christianity to what you and I believe today, which would later become known to us as Roman Catholicism.

                                In short, I believe that the doctrine of the Trinity is the one Catholic doctrine that most of Reformed Christianity hasn't YET let go of.
                                I agree with your idea about the boys @ Nicea ...
                                who knows if they were born-again with the precious Holy Spirit INSIDE guiding them?
                                And I'm sure none had the baptism with the Holy Spirit ... Wah dat?

                                Movin' on ...
                                Just what are you a-goin' to do with those 70+ verses ...
                                which reveal that Jesus is God, equal to Father God, etc. etc.?


                                HEY! ... you either believe Scripture, or you don't.

                                If you don't, just say so! ... now that's a laugh.
                                None of you guys ever will admit you believe Scripture has been tampered with.
                                But, WHY?, I don't know ... for it would be an incredibly valid claim.

                                Continuing onski ...
                                It's all about BELIEF and OBEDIENCE.
                                Are any of us responsible for the condition of the Bible today?
                                All that's required of us is to DO DA BLUE ... with whatever we hold in our hot little hands.

                                P.S. Anyone have any idea what I'm talkin' about?
                                "For as many as are being LED by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." Romans 8:14
                                To gain salvation, a BAC must be willing to co-operate with the Holy Spirit in removing sin.
                                E.G. No BAC will be saved who has unforgiveness, or ANY unrepented-of habitual sin in his life.

                                Comment

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