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  • Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
    You fail to understand that when Jesus was ascended; He was changed...and went back to His former glory:

    John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
    Why Jesus "God the Almighty Father" had to be glorified by another God?

    Take a look at this:

    Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
    Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
    Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    Rev 13:8 …the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
    Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world
    Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose… which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
    1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
    Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    Well, God has chosen and saved us before the world began. Are we Gods too?

    If Jesus was not God, or is not God...we have no Savior...for the whole of the bible speaks of one thing...that ONE JUST MAN would come to die for the unjust.

    There was only one...that was JUST in the way that could get this done. GOD, made flesh.
    I would like to advice you to pay more attention to what you post.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gill White View Post
      Why do you deny, the Lord that brought you: They denied Him all those years ago, killed Him and even today, they still deny Him.

      Why? Why do you deny God's son?
      *
      Your thought patterns are the same as both Jerzy and Krsto and just as inane. Have we a trinity here? the things you all say make no logical sense, let alone spritual sense.
      One lavished upon in the Beloved
      sigpic

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
        *
        Your thought patterns are the same as both Jerzy and Krsto and just as inane. Have we a trinity here? the things you all say make no logical sense, let alone spritual sense.
        You err because you don't know God no His power.

        Your delusions are of a confused mind.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jerzy View Post
          John.

          You are just trying to prove that God is a liar.

          Good luck, pal.
          Zinged me again with that never before heard in the history of mankind "that God is a liar" shocking shut down closer. Intimidating.

          Translation:3 and out.


          And there is no such thing as "luck" in the book. You'd know that, had you studied, and surveyed the book, instead of watching your talk shows.

          With me, "sport?"
          Saint John W

          Comment


          • Originally posted by john w View Post
            Zinged me again with that never before heard in the history of mankind "that God is a liar" shocking shut down closer. Intimidating.

            Translation:3 and out.


            And there is no such thing as "luck" in the book. You'd know that, had you studied, and surveyed the book, instead of watching your talk shows.

            With me, "sport?"
            So you must have seen some of hundreds of fool proof verses like these:

            Isa 11:1-3, 42:1+6, Eze 34:23-24, Mic 5:2, Mt 6:9, 11:25, Jn 6:23, 6:44-45, 6:65, 14:6, 14:10, 17:3, 20:17, 20:31, Ac 2:22, 2:36, 3:21, 10:36, 17:31, Ro 1:7, 1Cor 1:3, 8:6, 2Co 1:2, 5:18+21, Eph 1:3, 2:18, Ga 1:1, 1:3, Col 1:1-3, 1:12-13, Php 1:2, 1Th 1:1-3, 2Th 1:1-2, 1Ti 1:1-2, 2:5, 2Ti 1:1-2, Ti 1:4, Phm 1:3-4, Heb 1:1-2, Jam 1:1, 1Pe 1:2-3, 2Pe 1:2, 1Jn 1:2-3, 2Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1, Re 1:1.

            What you suggest should be done to them to get them away of your crocked theology?

            Are you not trying to prove that God is a liar peddling pagan fables?

            Are you not trying to take the true worshippers of the Father the only true God astray that they may forfeit the eternal life?

            Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

            Can you offer anybody the eternal life?

            If not than why don’t you mind what you are saying to avoid this?

            Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
            Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jerzy View Post
              So you must have seen some of hundreds of fool proof verses like these:

              Isa 11:1-3, 42:1+6, Eze 34:23-24, Mic 5:2, Mt 6:9, 11:25, Jn 6:23, 6:44-45, 6:65, 14:6, 14:10, 17:3, 20:17, 20:31, Ac 2:22, 2:36, 3:21, 10:36, 17:31, Ro 1:7, 1Cor 1:3, 8:6, 2Co 1:2, 5:18+21, Eph 1:3, 2:18, Ga 1:1, 1:3, Col 1:1-3, 1:12-13, Php 1:2, 1Th 1:1-3, 2Th 1:1-2, 1Ti 1:1-2, 2:5, 2Ti 1:1-2, Ti 1:4, Phm 1:3-4, Heb 1:1-2, Jam 1:1, 1Pe 1:2-3, 2Pe 1:2, 1Jn 1:2-3, 2Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1, Re 1:1.

              What you suggest should be done to them to get them away of your crocked theology?

              Are you not trying to prove that God is a liar peddling pagan fables?

              Are you not trying to take the true worshippers of the Father the only true God astray that they may forfeit the eternal life?

              Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

              Can you offer anybody the eternal life?

              If not than why don’t you mind what you are saying to avoid this?

              Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
              Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

              “Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt the LORD?” Exodus 17:2

              “Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.” 1 Corinthians 10:9

              Thus, Exodus says “the people” tempted whom? The LORD. And the scriptures in 1 Cor., referring to the same OT history of “children of Israel”(Exodus 17:1), says they tempted Christ. Christ is the LORD God.

              Read it-"some of them also tempted"-they tempted "the LORD," who Paul identifies as "Christ." Paul was referring to the same historical event.

              Football is over, but you continue to punt. Lovely.


              "So you must have seen some of hundreds of fool proof verses like these:........."-jerzy


              "So you must have seen some of hundreds of fool proof verses, asserting that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, in :

              Genesis-Revelation.
              I just "one upped you."

              "What you suggest should be done to them to get them away of your crocked theology?Are you not trying to prove that God is a liar peddling pagan fables?"-jerzy

              More never before heard sound bytes. How weighty. Where do you come up with these stumpers, gems?

              Show us that you can die. Go ahead-die right now.


              I thought so.

              End of thread.
              Last edited by john w; May 24, 2011, 01:25 PM.
              Saint John W

              Comment


              • “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” Acts 20:28*


                My comment: In “5th grade English”, even if you knew nothing of/about the Lord Jesus Christ, the passage is declaring that “he”, referring back within this scriptural passage to “God” , “hath purchased” “the Church” “with his own blood.” So, God has blood? When was this purchased? By whom? By God 2000 years ago at Calvary. To whom is this referring? Romans 3:25, 5:9; Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14

                “And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.”Genesis 22:8

                My comment: God will not only provide a lamb, He will be the lamb! To whom is this referring, this “God” who will provide “himself” as the lamb?

                “Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:” Exodus 12:5

                And realized:

                “…Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world… Behold the Lamb of God!...”, “…stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all (John 1:29, 36; Rev. 5:6).

                The Lord Jesus Christ was the only man that has ever walked the earth to this point in time(2011) who had no sin-He was/is “without blemish”: 2 Cor. 5:21; Hebrews 4:15,7:26; 1 John 3:5; Luke 23:4; John 18:38,19:4-6.

                *Pre-emptive strike: Watch the forthcoming "In every early manuscript it reads, 'church of the Lord' , it changed to support ther trinty doctrine."
                Saint John W

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jerzy View Post
                  Why Jesus "God the Almighty Father" had to be glorified by another God?Take a look at this:

                  Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
                  Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
                  Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
                  2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

                  Rev 13:8 …the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
                  Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
                  Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world
                  Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose… which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
                  1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
                  Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

                  Well, God has chosen and saved us before the world began. Are we Gods too?



                  I would like to advice you to pay more attention to what you post.
                  If you knew that He did NOT have to be glorified by another God but was proclaiming HIS OWN glory, that HE said HE would NOT give to another, you would see how your fallacy ends.

                  Isa 42:8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.


                  I think you are attempting to make Jesus a mere man...there is no other God, besides Him.

                  He never attempted to give His glory to another God...the trinity does NOT teach that there are three God's...which is probably why you don't like it..you think it does...it never did.

                  Comment


                  • The Lord Jesus Christ, by His own power, "gave up/yielded" "the ghost."

                    Who can do that?

                    Well? Go ahead-try and die.
                    Saint John W

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by john w View Post
                      “Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt the LORD?” Exodus 17:2

                      “Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.” 1 Corinthians 10:9

                      Thus, Exodus says “the people” tempted whom? The LORD. And the scriptures in 1 Cor., referring to the same OT history of “children of Israel”(Exodus 17:1), says they tempted Christ. Christ is the LORD God.

                      Read it-"some of them also tempted"-they tempted "the LORD," who Paul identifies as "Christ." Paul was referring to the same historical event.

                      Football is over, but you continue to punt. Lovely.


                      "So you must have seen some of hundreds of fool proof verses like these:........."-jerzy


                      "So you must have seen some of hundreds of fool proof verses, asserting that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, in :

                      Revelation-Genesis.

                      I just "one upped you."

                      "What you suggest should be done to them to get them away of your crocked theology?Are you not trying to prove that God is a liar peddling pagan fables?"-jerzy

                      More never before heard sound bytes. How weighty. Where do you come up with these stumpers, gems?

                      Show us that you can die. Go ahead-die right now.


                      I thought so.

                      End of thread.
                      John.

                      Why your post have to be abusive? Don’t you have Christian maners?

                      You allude that the Lord of the OT denotes Jesus.

                      One wonders why Jews didn't know this.

                      Why you can't show it written that Jesus is God except for the few of the Trinitarian clear forgeries?

                      Why you can't show written that God had to die for our sins?

                      Why can't you show that Mary gave birth to God?

                      Can you explain how man like you could kill God?


                      Coming back to your silly comparison of Ex 17:2 with 1Co 10:9 once more.

                      It is a lame goat’s attempt to claim a tree.

                      If your claim was true you would be able to deal honestly with these verses instead of offering your rude erudition:

                      Isa 11:1-3, 42:1+6, Eze 34:23-24, Mic 5:2, Mt 6:9, 11:25, Jn 6:23, 6:44-45, 6:65, 14:6, 14:10, 17:3, 20:17, 20:31, Ac 2:22, 2:36, 3:21, 10:36, 17:31, Ro 1:7, 1Cor 1:3, 8:6, 2Co 1:2, 5:18+21, Eph 1:3, 2:18, Ga 1:1, 1:3, Col 1:1-3, 1:12-13, Php 1:2, 1Th 1:1-3, 2Th 1:1-2, 1Ti 1:1-2, 2:5, 2Ti 1:1-2, Ti 1:4, Phm 1:3-4, Heb 1:1-2, Jam 1:1, 1Pe 1:2-3, 2Pe 1:2, 1Jn 1:2-3, 2Jn 1:3, Jud 1:1, Re 1:1.

                      Alas, you know that all of them are fool proof texts and disqualify your story at first glance.

                      Besides, Jesus as the anointed man of the Father the only true God was given all power to execute His will.

                      Therefore, tempting the right hand man is to offend the Father.

                      Now, John.

                      Either you attend to those verses above and tell us what you suggest be done with them or you just may dance to your own tune.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
                        If you knew that He did NOT have to be glorified by another God but was proclaiming HIS OWN glory, that HE said HE would NOT give to another, you would see how your fallacy ends.

                        Isa 42:8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.


                        I think you are attempting to make Jesus a mere man...there is no other God, besides Him.

                        He never attempted to give His glory to another God...the trinity does NOT teach that there are three God's...which is probably why you don't like it..you think it does...it never did.
                        So whom and why Jesus asked to glorify him if he had glory?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by john w View Post
                          The Lord Jesus Christ, by His own power, "gave up/yielded" "the ghost."

                          Who can do that?

                          Well? Go ahead-try and die.
                          So God didn’t die and you are still in your sins up to your throat.

                          Comment


                          • "a lamb without blemish".....perfect....

                            "Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it. But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him. And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:41-52

                            The Lord Jesus Christ as a youth did not dispute with the "teachers", verse 46, but instead, asks questions of them, and listened with respect to their answers. The doctors also ask him questions(v 47)=perfection as a youth, including fulfilling the Law, which required Him to go to Jerusalem at Passover(Deuteronomy 16:1)

                            Notice verse 49: "...wist ye not...?", i.e., How is it that you do not understand? They should of understood who He was, and thus what and why He was doing it, for He gave 7 testimonies as to who He was. See Matthew 1:20; Luke 1:26, 43, 2:9,29, 36; Mt. 2:1. He was their God and creator; and thus, the Holy Spirit would have us to know and realize that Mary should not have spoken to Him as she did, and thus His exclamation "...How is it that ye sought me...?" are understood by those "with ears to hear", and, in opposition to Mary's "thy father", the Lord Jesus Christ responds: "..that I must be about my Father's business?" He was conscious of who He was(even though many today are not). And just as this consciousness caused Him to wash the disciples feet(John 13), so it here caused Him to return with His parents to Nazareth, and in obedience be "subject"(v. 51) to them in obedience(perfection as a youth). Joseph was His father(small 's') according to Hebrew Law(Luke 3:23).

                            So, here we see a glimpse of Him as a perfect youth, and later, as a perfect man-perfection as a child, and perfection as a man.

                            His first recorded words are:

                            " And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? "


                            His last recorded words:


                            "...It is finished..." John 19:30

                            What was "finished"? Doing His Father's business.



                            Why (also) did the Lord Jesus Christ Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of God?

                            It was an allusion to a Hebrew legal tradition in which the oldest (in this case, only) son had authority to carry out legal and business affairs on behalf of the father. The son's word and authority was essentially the same as the father's. He was identifying His words and His authority with that of the Father, His Father.
                            Saint John W

                            Comment


                            • "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Is. 9:6

                              "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." Psalms 2:12

                              "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" Proverbs 30:4


                              The child was born, the Son given; thus the Holy Spirit would declare the humanity and deity of the Messiah, the Christ. The Son was not born, He was given, for, as God, He was from Everlasting("Everlasting Father"=father of eternity=possessor of it), but, as man, He was born.
                              Saint John W

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by jerzy View Post
                                So God didn’t die and you are still in your sins up to your throat.
                                Slower: Try to die. Show us you can give up the ghost. Show us any man can do this. Well?

                                Are you a prophet?
                                Saint John W

                                Comment

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