ECT Our triune God

newbirth

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Stupid analogy.

Christ referred to the Spirit as "He."

Who exactly is that "He," if it's not Himself nor the Father?

Deal with it or be silent.

look at the scripture posted...you dwell to much on my words...
what does this scripture say...it makes no mention of Jesus...yet is Jesus who purchaced us with his own blood.. and it is Jesus who made overseers to feed the flock/church...
Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
 

newbirth

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Yeah, friend, we're probably at an impasse on this one. You're probably not likely to move across to my side, and I am far from crossing over to yours. Your doctrine disgraces both my understanding of God as Triune and as well my interpretation of the person of Jesus Christ, he being both fully God of God and flesh of flesh. I am happy to commune with you (for how else would I ever be able to bring you to your senses:) but I don't really think we have much to discuss in this context. And so I bid you fair well. T

it is not my doctrine....it is the word of God ...the doctrine of Christ...
It is scripture I post with a little comment...you deny Father and Son in favour of a trinity...scripture says you are antichrist...you are opposing God....it is not my side...it is God side...I am on God side...
 

newbirth

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Who are "they"?

Who is the "He" that Christ referred to as the Spirit?
the same he is referring to as 'I'

John 14:17-19King James Version (KJV)

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
 

Cross Reference

New member
it is not my doctrine....it is the word of God ...the doctrine of Christ...
It is scripture I post with a little comment...you deny Father and Son in favour of a trinity...scripture says you are antichrist...you are opposing God....it is not my side...it is God side...I am on God side...

Apparently, you are oneness theology. It is a flawed doctrine even though at some point in time will all things be summed in Jesus Christ, even the Godhead. However, it is not yet that time. The time that is now is that there are 3 distinct personalities with their minds acting in unison.
 

musterion

Well-known member
the same he is referring to as 'I'

John 14:17-19King James Version (KJV)

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Why does Christ refer to the Spirit as 'He' if it's just Himself.
 

TFTn5280

New member
If you know who the Holy Spirit is not, then you must know who He is.

So who is He?

Do you mind if I bust in on you? I'll tell you who I think the Holy Spirit is. Bare with me please. I'm usually a bit wordy.

As it relates to holiness, I for much of my life was stumped as to what that really meant. Here's why: the definitions of holiness that I most often encountered in church attendance, in my studies, and at university and seminary; and what other places I encountered it, were predominately ones of consecration: being set apart from all unrighteousness, being drawn near to the purposes of God, absolute otherness; you get the picture. While those definitions seemed to apply somewhat to me, they seemed wholly inadequate when speaking of God; for they seemed to make God dependent on creation to himself be Holy; for what is God in his absolute being set apart from, if not creation? What is there for him to draw near to him other than his creatures? What in eternity is he completely other than, when all I've ever been taught is that God is eternal and we're not? Those questions set me on a quest to discover what the holiness of God was really like.

Along the way I came across obscure definitions of holiness that did seem to suffice when plugged into the heart of God: awful or absolute moral perfection. For a while I could accept those concepts. Then I was introduced to Trinitarian theology through my studies at Fuller Theological Seminary, whose thrust, as I've told you, are the interpersonal relations of the Son with the Father and the Father with the Son as portrayed in the life of Jesus, and how those relations extend into the Capadocian formulae of perichoresis ~ the interaction ~ between and within the Trinity, and how they extend to include us via the work of the Holy Spirit.

Here is what I discovered: when reading Jesus, he seems to make clear that the only true interpretation of the Father is through the Son; nothing else will suffice to draw us into a true understanding of God as he really is. And indeed there is no knowledge of God except as revealed to us in the Father/Son relationship, not even things extrapolated from the Hebrew Scriptures; for in these latter days God has spoken to us most apprehensively through his Son. That is to say that God, as he really is, is only revealed by the Son.

Bam! Then it hit me: absolute moral perfection: i.e., holiness, is not to be discovered in and then defined by OT Law: Do this. Don't do that. But it is given definition by Jesus, as he relates to his Father in Love, Adoration, and Prayer; respect, righteousness, and fellowship. All things began to come together. Holiness in the heart of God is the love of the Father for the Son and visa verse. It is the respect they share for each other, the absolute harmony of their righteous wills. It is the beauty, the glory, the honor we see displayed in their relations. It is their humility as revealed to us in the Son's condescension to dwell among us that revealed as well the true heart of the Father for creation through a servant's heart for humanity. And most emphatically it's a love so bonded, so bounded, so invasive, so compelling, SO INCLUSIVE that it drove them to the cross for the sake of those whom they mutually loved and willed to bring into their embrace.

In short, holiness is not assent to an absolutely untenable moral code, which can only produce an aw-ful experience of God. Holiness is that inner relationship of God. It is the practical application of that love as we live Jesus’ life, lived out in us through Christ in us the hope of Glory. It is Paul saying, "I, yet not I live but Christ ..."

Bam! a second epiphany. The "Holy" Spirit is the conduit of that mutual adoration -- Yes, proceeding from the Father to the Son, Yes, proceeding from the Son to the Father, Yes, proceeding from them both to us to include us in the reciprocity of that love.
 
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musterion

Well-known member
Do you mind if I bust in on you?

As long as it's an honest attempt to answer the as yet unaswered question, not at all.

I'll tell you who I think the Holy Spirit is. Bare with me please. I'm usually a bit wordy.

As it relates to holiness, I for much of my life was stumped as to what that really meant. Here's why: the definitions of holiness that I most often encountered in church attendance, in my studies, and at university and seminary; and what other places I encountered it, were predominately ones of consecration: being set apart from all unrighteousness, being drawn near to the purposes of God, absolute otherness; you get the picture. While those definitions seemed to apply somewhat to me, they seemed wholly inadequate when speaking of God; for they seemed to make God dependent on creation to himself be Holy; for what is God in his absolute being set apart from, if not creation? What is there for him to draw near to him other than his creatures? What in eternity is he completely other than, when all I've ever been taught is that God is eternal and we're not? Those questions set me on a quest to discover what the holiness of God was really like.

Along the way I came across obscure definitions of holiness that did seem to suffice when plugged into the heart of God: awful or absolute moral perfection. For a while I could accept those concepts. Then I was introduced to Trinitarian theology through my studies at Fuller Theological Seminary, whose thrust, as I've told you, are the interpersonal relations of the Son with the Father and the Father with the Son as portrayed in the life of Jesus, and how those relations extend into the Capadocian formulae of perichoresis ~ the interaction ~ between and within the Trinity, and how they extend to include us via the work of the Holy Spirit.

Here is what I discovered: when reading Jesus, he, seems to make clear that the only true interpretation of the Father is through the Son; nothing else will suffice to draw us into a true understanding of God as he really is. And indeed there is no knowledge of God except as revealed to us in the Father/Son relationship, not even things extrapolated from the Hebrew Scriptures; for in these latter days God has spoken to us in most apprehensively through his Son. That is to say that God, as he really is, is only revealed by the Son.

Bam! Then it hit me: absolute moral perfection: i.e., holiness, is not to be discovered in and then defined by OT Law: Do this. Don't do that. But it is given definition by Jesus, as he relates to his Father in Love, Adoration, and Prayer; respect, righteousness, and fellowship. All things began to come together. Holiness in the heart of God is the love of the Father for the Son and visa verse. It is the respect they share for each other, the absolute harmony of their righteous wills. It is the beauty, the glory, the honor we see displayed in their relations. It is their humility as revealed to us in the Son's condescension to dwell among us that revealed as well the true heart of the Father for creation through a servant's heart for humanity. And most emphatically it's a love so bonded, so bounded, so invasive, so compelling, SO INCLUSIVE that it drove them to the cross for the sake of those whom they mutually loved and willed to bring into their embrace.

In short, holiness is not assent to an absolutely untenable moral code, which can only produce an aw-ful experience of God. Holiness is that inner relationship of God. It is the practical application of that love as we live Jesus’ life, lived out in us through Christ in us the hope of Glory. It is Paul saying, "I, yet not I live but Christ ..."

Bam! a second epiphany. The "Holy" Spirit is the conduit of that mutual adoration -- Yes, proceeding from the Father to the Son, Yes, proceeding from the Son to the Father, Yes, proceeding from them both to us to include us in the reciprocity of that love.

So...the Holy Spirit is God.
 

newbirth

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Why does Christ refer to the Spirit as 'He' if it's just Himself.

simple ....
1 Corinthians 2:7-9King James Version (KJV)

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
So...the Holy Spirit is God.

The Holy Spirit is God and Christ united. Jesus prayed, "That they all may be one as thou, Father, art in me and I in thee, that they also may be one in us that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:21)
 

LAL359

New member
it is not my doctrine....it is the word of God ...the doctrine of Christ...
It is scripture I post with a little comment...you deny Father and Son in favour of a trinity...scripture says you are antichrist...you are opposing God....it is not my side...it is God side...I am on God side...

It is so beyond me that you could say that he rejects the Father and the Son when most of what he posts is about the relationship they have with each other. Sometimes I wonder what some of you are really up to.
 

musterion

Well-known member
simple ....
1 Corinthians 2:7-9King James Version (KJV)

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Why did Christ refer to the Spirit as "He"?
 

LAL359

New member
I've been following TFT's posts for several weeks now and here's what I have gotten out of it. I also was raised with the burden of following an absolute moral code in pursuit of holiness. An impossible endeavor to say the least. This truth revealed to me that holiness is not a burden and is obtainable by way of relationship. The more I grow in my relationship with the Father and the Son, the more holy I become. Their love compels me to be like them. It's really just that simple. My entire life I have emulated the ones that I love. It is much easier to love those whom I encounter as I grow in their (I am referring to the Father and the Son) relationship. It all makes sense to me. Now somehow the Holy Spirit makes sense too.
 
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Cross Reference

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I've been following TFT's posts for several weeks now and here's what I have gotten out of it. I also was raised with the burden of following an absolute moral code in pursuit of holiness. An impossible endeavor to say the least. This truth revealed to me that holiness is not a burden and is obtainable by way of relationship. The more I grow in my relationship with the Father and the Son, the more holy I become. Their love compels me to be like them. It's really just that simple. My entire life I have emulated the ones that I love. It is much easier to love those whom I encounter as I grow in their (I am referring to the Father and the Son) relationship. It all makes sense to me. Now somehow the Holy Spirit makes sense too.

Very good __ something I can relate to. Thank you. LAL.
 
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