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  • Originally posted by DaSoji1 View Post
    The analogy is a good one,
    No. The analogy was horrific and pitiful, just like all others of its ilk.

    but of course it can't grasp the majesty of God.
    Not even close, so why bother? (My abruptness and directness is not condescending or adversarial, BTW.)

    It's a way of trying to wrap your brain around it.
    No, it's not. God in no way resembles a cube or anthing it could possibly attempt to portray.

    God has revealed Himself in Scripture as one God eternally existing in three Persons.
    No, He has not. Man formulated all that by speculation and inference based on a presupposed concept that omitted the creation of eternity. All "persons" semantics comes from hypostasis, and scripture only gives us ONE hypostasis for God.

    God is monohypostatic; and a hypostasis is NOT a "person". Hypostasis is substance, subsistence. The underlying foundational absolute assure objective substantial reality of existence. God is ONE of those, per the inspired text of scripture.

    F/S/HS are all distinct, uncreated, eternal, non-modal, concurrent, conessential, consubstantial, ontological Deity. But they're not three hypostases ("persons").

    God is a monohypostatic triunity, not a dyohypostatic trinity.

    Admittedly, my analogy was a little off.
    Quite an understatement, but you're certainly in majority company of those who attempt to analogized God; and always erroneously as three "persons".

    C.S. Lewis explains better than me:
    Ummmm... Nope. Why not stick with exegesis of scripture and find out God isn't three hypostases instead of being indoctrinated and spending time analogizing God and providing others' same faulty attempts?

    You know that in space you can move in three ways – to left or right, backwards or forwards, up or down. Every direction is either one of these three or a compromise between them. They are called the three Dimensions. Now notice this. If you are using only one dimension, you could draw only a straight line. If you are using two, you could draw a figure: say, a square. And a square is made up of four straight lines. Now a step further. If you have three dimensions, you can then build what we call a solid body: say, a cube – a thing like a dice or a lump of sugar. And a cube is made up of six squares.

    Do you see the point? A world of one dimension would be a straight line. In a two-dimensional world, you still get straight lines, but many lines make one figure. In a three-dimensional world, you still get figures but many figures make one solid body. In other words, as you advance to more real and more complicated levels, you do not leave behind you the things you found on the simpler levels: you still have them, but combined in new ways – in ways you could not imagine if you knew only the simpler levels.

    Now the Christian account of God involves just the same principle. The human level is a simple and rather empty level. On the human level one person is one being, and any two persons are two separate beings – just as, in two dimensions (say on a flat sheet of paper) one square is one figure, and any two squares are two separate figures. On the Divine level you still find personalities; but up there you find them combined in new ways which we, who do not live on that level, cannot imagine. In God’s dimension, so to speak, you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube. Of course we cannot fully conceive a Being like that: just as, if we were so made that we perceived only two dimensions in space we could never properly imagine a cube. But we can get a sort of faint notion of it. And when we do, we are then, for the first time in our lives, getting some positive idea, however faint, of something super-personal – something more than a person. It is something we could never have guessed, and yet, once we have been told, one almost feels one ought to have been able to guess it because it fits in so well with all the things we know already. (Harper Collins version, p161-162)
    Now God is literally anthopomorphized as three literal "people". It's Triadism, but I don't expect DyoHypoTrins to ever actually realize it or comprehend the difference. The vast majority are dogmatized beyond reason by a concept that misrepresents God.

    We see from Lewis’s words that this is not an unreasonable understanding of the biblical data.
    Lewis' example is both pathetic and misrepresentative of the actual Creedal Trinity doctrine itself anyway.

    As Lewis said above, ‘In God’s dimension,
    God isn't "in" a dimension. God is Self-existent and Self-subsistence. Any "where" of ANY composition was created by Him. No dimension inherently contains God. He created eternity itself. He alone is UNcreated.

    you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being,
    Nope. More anthropomorphic gibberish with multiplied hypostases.

    just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube.’

    We worship, follow and give our lives to the Triune God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
    F/S/HS are all God as a monohypostatic triunity. They're not three "persons" in one "being".
    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
      .......The analogy was horrific and pitiful, just like all others of its ilk.......
      My post was meant to be simplistic, an answer to posters on a basic level who see the Trinity as three Gods. I personally prefer St Thomas Aquinas on the Trinity.

      Why do you have to behave like such a jerk.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
        My post was meant to be simplistic, an answer to posters on a basic level who see the Trinity as three Gods. I personally prefer St Thomas Aquinas on the Trinity.
        St Thomas Aquinas is the one who gave us the erroneous internal processions for the Logos and the Pneuma AS three (biblically non-existent) hypostases. I don't place any confidence in an alleged "vision" from God about a hole in the sand and the ocean.

        (And if that's true, then why all the exensive formulation of something that God has allegedly told a Saint can't be contained in the human mind? Why not just say F/S/HS are all distinct, uncreated, eternal, non-modal, concurrent, conessential, consubstantial, ontological Deity and we can't possibly understand "how".)

        And Aquinas couldn't even take his own advice from his alleged vision from God. He insisted the exerchomai and ekporeuomai of the Logos and the Pneuma were internal. Ex- and ek- are out of/out from, not eis- (into) or en- (in). No dice. False doctrine.

        And God isn't a clover, either (St Patty). Plus... you can remove a leaf of a clover and it's still a clover; and there are four-leaf clovers. It's inane and inapplicable. It's not even descriptive, much less definitive.

        Why do you have to behave like such a jerk.
        I specifically stated that my abruptness and directness was not adversarial. I'm not behaving like a jerk. I'm fed up with heterodox O/orthodoxy and its indoctrinated adherents who analogize God to every possible type of threeness in the cosmos that doesn't even remotely respresent Him.

        Why compare the incomparable? Why bring God down? The heavens declare the glory of God. If you didn't have false Theology Proper, you wouldn't need all the silly comparisons.

        And I'm still not being a jerk. Being a jerk would be bringing God down from His inherent glory by comparing Him to countless things that don't represent Him in the least.

        Stick with exegesis. And in the process, provide the evidence that God is three hypostases. He's not.
        Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
        “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jamie View Post
          And don't forget the Bride.

          As for the term holy Spirit, the word holy simply means set apart. The two God beings are set apart from other spirit beings and set apart from humans.
          Pagan polytheism vs Judeo-Christian ontological monotheism (that does not preclude compound unity vs solitary)?
          Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

          They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
          I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

          Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

          "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

          The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
            My post was meant to be simplistic, an answer to posters on a basic level who see the Trinity as three Gods. I personally prefer St Thomas Aquinas on the Trinity.

            Why do you have to behave like such a jerk.
            Unitarians, Muslims, JWs, Jews, etc. always confuse ontological monotheism with unipersonalism. 3 gods is a straw man caricature of the triune God understanding.
            Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

            They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
            I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

            Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

            "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

            The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

            Comment


            • For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. (Romans 1:20)

              If a person wants to know about God just look at his creation. For example, what does God look like? Just look at humans because we are a reflection of God, a mirror image.

              Adam was expelled from the garden, not because he sinned, which he did, but because he was now like one of them. They did not want Adam to eat of the tree of life, so they sent him packing.

              And away he goes headed east.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                No. The analogy was horrific and pitiful, just like all others of its ilk.
                Yea, in your opinion. Thats fine, but im still waiting for you to prove that.

                No, it's not. God in no way resembles a cube or anthing it could possibly attempt to portray.
                Good thing I didn't say He resembles a cube.

                No, He has not. Man formulated all that by speculation and inference based on a presupposed concept that omitted the creation of eternity.
                Proof?

                All "persons" semantics comes from hypostasis, and scripture only gives us ONE hypostasis for God.
                Scripture is God's Way of bringing Himself down to our level so we can better understand Him. He does this really often. His existence and majesty is obvious given His Creation, and we can learn more about Him by studying His creation. Obviously. The cube analogy is a great example of this. Greater men than you agree on this. But im still waiting for you to refute it, if you can.

                God is monohypostatic; and a hypostasis is NOT a "person". Hypostasis is substance, subsistence. The underlying foundational absolute assure objective substantial reality of existence. God is ONE of those, per the inspired text of scripture.
                Proof?

                F/S/HS are all distinct, uncreated, eternal, non-modal, concurrent, conessential, consubstantial, ontological Deity. But they're not three hypostases ("persons").
                Proof

                God is a monohypostatic triunity, not a dyohypostatic trinity.
                God is one being who expresses His being in three persons.

                Quite an understatement, but you're certainly in majority company of those who attempt to analogized God; and always erroneously as three "persons".
                Show me how it is erroneous, if you can.

                Ummmm... Nope. Why not stick with exegesis of scripture and find out God isn't three hypostases instead of being indoctrinated and spending time analogizing God and providing others' same faulty attempts?
                There is nothing wrong with analogizing God, especially if it leads one to a better understanding of His nature.


                Now God is literally anthopomorphized as three literal "people". It's Triadism, but I don't expect DyoHypoTrins to ever actually realize it or comprehend the difference. The vast majority are dogmatized beyond reason by a concept that misrepresents God.
                How does it misrepresent God?

                Lewis' example is both pathetic and misrepresentative of the actual Creedal Trinity doctrine itself anyway.
                I disagree.

                God isn't "in" a dimension.
                So you know where God can and cannot be now? How?

                God is Self-existent and Self-subsistence. Any "where" of ANY composition was created by Him. No dimension inherently contains God.
                You are showing me that you dont really grasp the point of Lewis' analogy. That's unfortunate.

                He created eternity itself. He alone is UNcreated.
                Eternity isnt actually a thing. It's so much simpler just to say God Is.

                Nope. More anthropomorphic gibberish with multiplied hypostases.
                Gibberish huh...more appeal to ridicule from you. Tsk.

                F/S/HS are all God as a monohypostatic triunity. They're not three "persons" in one "being".
                I didnt say three persons in one being. I said one being expressing Himself in three persons.

                It's hard to talk to someone who only likes to hear himself talk...so I'll leave you to your thoughts.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                  And don't forget the Bride.

                  As for the term holy Spirit, the word holy simply means set apart. The two God beings are set apart from other spirit beings and set apart from humans.
                  Stay in the SBC and go to adult SS class. They have this triune view down well and will help you come to right conclusions (I'm SBC and have taught this class). Spend more time there, less here. They will straighten this all out for you.
                  My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                  Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                  Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                  Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                  No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                  Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                  ? Yep

                  Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                  ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                  Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                    For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. (Romans 1:20)

                    If a person wants to know about God just look at his creation. For example, what does God look like? Just look at humans because we are a reflection of God, a mirror image.

                    Adam was expelled from the garden, not because he sinned, which he did, but because he was now like one of them. They did not want Adam to eat of the tree of life, so they sent him packing.

                    And away he goes headed east.
                    Rom. 1 talks about general revelation. Creation shows us God's existence, power, intelligence, but special revelation (Christ, Word of God) shows us His full moral character, full attributes, triune nature, etc.
                    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                      Unitarians, Muslims, JWs, Jews, etc. always confuse ontological monotheism with unipersonalism. 3 gods is a straw man caricature of the triune God understanding.
                      The extra-biblical, manufactured, non-existent multiple hypostases are merely a band-aid as an attempt to avoid polytheism. It didn't work except to dupe others through leveraged mandate of heterodox O/orthodoxy. Then you claim strawmen when others point to the fact that scripture doesn't give us three hypostases for God. Period.

                      Uni"personalism"? LOL. What a contrivance. God isn't a "person" of ANY quantity. He's (adjectivally) personAL because He's relational. And human persons are made in His image. But God is NOT "person" of ANY quantity. PERIOD.

                      I think it's tragic that men adamantly define God anthropomorphically. O/orthodoxy is human pride and arrogancy from an exponentially diminuitive viewpoint. It's sad.

                      God is spirit. Ousia. Essence. His "who-ness" was revealed in the prosopon of the Theanthropos, Jesus Christ. That's the ONLY "person" relative to God.

                      I don't consider a DyoHypoTrinity to be polytheism. It simply doesn't and can't exist. Biblically. God is monohypostatic per scripture.
                      Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                      “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Lon View Post
                        Stay in the SBC and go to adult SS class. They have this triune view down well and will help you come to right conclusions (I'm SBC and have taught this class). Spend more time there, less here. They will straighten this all out for you.
                        That's the whole problem. Constantly sending others to more and more layers of sectarian indoctrination rather than sending them to the Word with prayer and fasting.

                        I was raised under an SBC pew. Made a profession of faith in an SBC church. Went to an SBC Bible College. Served in pulpits of SBC churches for 12 years. Lost. Without salvific faith.

                        An SBC SS class is the LAST place someone should be going to learn Theology Proper. It's just another sectarian bastion of ignorance and arrogance.

                        Those who've denominated themselves from the one true Church are in error of schism.

                        And there STILL aren't three hypostases in scripture, while the text says something ELSE. God is ONE hypostasis per scripture. The three hypostases are just a band-aid as an attempt to avoid polytheism.

                        A DyoHypoTrin God doesn't exist. God is monohypostatic.
                        Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                        “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DaSoji1 View Post
                          Yea, in your opinion. Thats fine, but im still waiting for you to prove that.
                          I see. Your analogy stands as "proof" of itself because you said so. LOL.

                          God is beyond dimensions. Period. There is no aspect of a cube that defines or describes God. He isn't Rubik.

                          Good thing I didn't say He resembles a cube.
                          Good thing you didn't actually describe God, either.

                          Proof?
                          Proof?... yourself.

                          Scripture is God's Way of bringing Himself down to our level so we can better understand Him. He does this really often. His existence and majesty is obvious given His Creation, and we can learn more about Him by studying His creation. Obviously. The cube analogy is a great example of this. Greater men than you agree on this. But im still waiting for you to refute it, if you can.

                          Proof?

                          Proof
                          LOL. And sigh.

                          God is one being who expresses His being in three persons.
                          Proof of three hypostases ("persons")?

                          Show me how it is erroneous, if you can.
                          I can. You don't want to know. You think you already know.

                          There is nothing wrong with analogizing God, especially if it leads one to a better understanding of His nature.
                          Okay, but NO analogy of a non-existent DyoHypoTrin God leads one to a better understanding of His nature since He isn't one.

                          Scripture gives us ONE hypostasis for God. Period. You guys refuse to ever acknowledge or learn that, among other things you've been indoctrinated to believe.

                          How does it misrepresent God?
                          God isn't a DyoHypoTrinity. And God isn't subject to ANY dimensions, including time and space. Nothing in time and space can even begin to approach depicting the ineffable God.

                          That's why He embodied His Logos in flesh as Jesus Christ. It's the only way we could see and know Him beyond merely observing His glory in the heavens.

                          I disagree.
                          No surprise. You're a DyoHypo Trin.

                          So you know where God can and cannot be now? How?
                          By His Word. Read it sometime.

                          You are showing me that you dont really grasp the point of Lewis' analogy. That's unfortunate.
                          I grasp it quite well. It's inane. God doesn't have His inherent existence in ANY where or when, including eternity. He created ALL and is Self-existent. He's not "in" dimensions, not matter how many or few are postulated.

                          Eternity isnt actually a thing.
                          Nice bare assertion. God INhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15). He "tents" there. He "abides" there. "There" is a place. All "wheres" are places. God created all where, just as God created all when and all what.

                          Prove eternity isn't a thing/place. It's a noun. Prove God didn't create something. Prove eternity is UNcreated.

                          It's so much simpler just to say God Is.
                          Yeah, gotta make God simple to keep Him in His proper place in our oh-so-complex minds.

                          You don't know what "God is" means. You think God has His inherent existence in the eternal heavenly realm He created.

                          Gibberish huh...more appeal to ridicule from you. Tsk.
                          It's not ridicule. You're the one condescending from the DyoHypoTrin view and trying to equate God with dimensional objects and concepts.

                          I didnt say three persons in one being. I said one being expressing Himself in three persons.
                          Semantics. All "persons" terminology is from hypostasis/es. Scripture only gives us ONE hypostasis for God. He's not three, no matter how you arrange a sentence.

                          It's hard to talk to someone who only likes to hear himself talk...so I'll leave you to your thoughts.
                          Sounds great. No more cube and dimensional nonsense then. Thanks.
                          Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                          “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                            God is spirit.
                            God is spirit but not a disembodied spirit. There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body defined by Paul as an incorruptible body. As we have the first we will also have the second.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                              God is spirit but not a disembodied spirit.
                              Absolutely disagreed. No Anthropomorphitism for me.

                              There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body defined by Paul as an incorruptible body. As we have the first we will also have the second.
                              Absolutely agreed.
                              Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                              “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                                Absolutely disagreed. No Anthropomorphitism for me.
                                Do you believe Christ is a disembodied spirit?

                                Comment

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